Stay or go?

[Pashola]

I'll try and keep this as short as possible but I also don't want to drip feed so sorry in advance if it is long.

So I've been with my husband for 18yrs, married 14yrs and 3 children, we met when I was 17yo.
For about the last 7 years or so my husband has been mentally abusive to myself and our oldest son. It is never constant, it was always off and on but 3 or so years ago it really ramped up and got much much worse, we barely had a good two weeks and it'd be on again with us having to deal with his anger, he particularly targeted our oldest son (who is now 14), it was mainly anger and us walking on eggshells around him, think things like thumping cupboards, slamming doors, punching things, yelling and being aggressive, belittling our DS, gaslighting, talking in circles, passive aggressive...so much we'd be here forever. I'd really like to give examples but don't want to put too many identifying details.

I can say though that he never called ME names and never tried to control me or who I could see, what I could do or control finances etc.

He literally sent me crazy with his behaviour to the point I thought I was crazy and thought I needed to check myself into a facility, it was the most awful time. I had to keep notes of what happened to keep my thoughts straight.
I tried to leave him so many times or ask him to leave but he always threatened me with the kids or hinted at suicide and I never followed through with leaving.
A week later he would be lovely and I would be left wondering if I imagined it all.

Three years ago, after another 6 weeks of arguing and him being horrible, me trying to get him to leave etc, I went out with a girlfriend, met a guy and we ended up having a 3 month affair.
My DH found out and the next few weeks/months were understandably a nightmare. I don't want to gloss over what I did at all but ultimately he forgave me and the thing is that the affair is what made him finally wake up and realise how awful he had treated us etc.

He went to counselling (twice) and has made a concerted effort to change his horrible behaviours, there has still been arguments and slip ups from him etc but for the last 9months I can truthfully say there has been massive change and I believe it is genuine. He has apologised for his previous behaviour.

The thing is now that I am out of the fog of it all I just CANNOT get over the way he treated us in the past. It's all I think about. I have flashbacks of behaviour and will cry in the shower or at random times. We get along ok and co-parent well and I like his company but more as a friend. I don't think I love him anymore and he knows this but wants to try really hard to keep us together. He would be devastated if I left, he is being very patient waiting for me to process it all.

Besides his past behaviour, he is good with sharing the load with regards to kids and housework, he probably does more than me, he's thoughtful, he just wants to make me happy and will do anything to do that (people that don't know our history think he is an amazing husband and have always told me how jealous they are).

I believe us being together is the best thing for the kids but I can't help how I feel.
I'm just so stuck on the past and counselling is not really helping me.

How can he have done that to us? Did he hate us that much? I just want to know why??? Why when your wife repeatedly asked, begged you to change or go to counselling etc would you just ignore them. And NOW he is sorry and willing to change but I think the damage has been done.

Has anyone ever come back from something like this?

So hes left but sounds as though you're still seeing plenty of him. Time to be firmer. Start backing off. Let him take kids out by himself. Dont get into conversations, unless its about access. Ignore begging texts. End it by letter/text if you can't talk to him. You're almost there!!

We're still seeing a lot of each other as at this stage it's still a trial, he's seeing a psychologist to work on his issues and he desperately wants it to work out.
I can't see it working though.

I am ignoring all of the begging messages, and I can see how it can be manipulative, but what constitutes manipulative and what is just him expressing his feelings? I know he loves me and doesn't want to lose me.

The last year or so I've become quite emotionless and cold and definitely not as happy as I was and i know if I go back to being who I was then he would be happier and be the husband I've always wanted. I just don't think I can.

Reading that back I can hear how that sounds. I honestly think this is the end of us but I suffer from so much guilt it's hard to break someone's heart.
I hope this doesn't sound like an excuse but remember I've been with him since I was 17, this is the only adult relationship I've ever known and I think I've been conditioned to his behaviour so it's hard to extradite myself from it.

Thanks for being a sounding board

From his latest comment to your DS, he really is not capable of a loving relationship with any of you. That was a horrendous thing to say to a child. You need to feel proud of your decision. You are protecting your children and sending them a daily message that their happiness is your priority. You still seem to doubt your decision but everyone on here is backing you because he is emotionally abusive, he's just keeping it a little more in control at the moment. Parenting in the teen years up to 20 gets trickier and trickier and he will not handle them and will bully them more, I promise. You have done the right thing.

How are things @Pashola?

Thanks for asking @TheGodmother we're still muddling through and still stuck in this ridiculous limbo. I know I sound pathetic.

He's still attending counselling and I can see massive changes in his behaviour and the way he handles his anger, frustrations and his relationships with the kids has improved massively.
I spoke to his counsellor in a joint session and she said she believes his change is genuine and he's doing it for the kids and himself first and foremost.

We're still amicable and I have days where I can see the good in him, I can see how our future could be if I were to give him another chance and it looks good.
But I still have my bad days of flashbacks and those are the days I hate him for what he did to us.

I was told (not by him) I need to decide if I want a relationship with him and if so I need to forget the past and treat it like a new marriage.
That's so hard to do though.

Of course that's hard to do.
You can't just forget how friggin' awful he was to you and your DS.
You can't erase your memory.
Your feelings are valid. Anyone telling you otherwise does not understand what you've been through.
He can't undo what he did. Or how he made your feel. Or how you lost the love and respect you had for him.
No-one has a time machine.
This is your life and your decision.

PASHOLA I WOULD SAY 100% GO, LEAVE, RUN FOR THE HILLS.

You will NEVER trust him again.
Once the cold heart and numbness sets in, you will never let your guard down. It’s your mind, body and intuition protecting yourself, as deep down you know he is getting this help mainly for self-centred reasons.

These types of men do not change and even if he miraculously did, you will always be reminded of how you and your children were treated, CPTSD is common in abuse victims. You will always feel resentful towards him for the abuse and I doubt you’d ever be able to be happy with him.

I think your biggest problem is you are TRAUMA BONDED to him and also the fear, obligation and guilt is getting in the way of a clean break. I would get specialist domestic violence therapy to finally break these bonds or research it on the internet, so that you have a chance at real happiness away from him and the constant threat of will he, won’t he, start the abuse up again.

You would do well to start learning about who you are, what you like and dislike, what your goals are for you and your children, find your identity as you got together when you were so young you were probably conditioned to focus on him thus, stifling your growth and maturity. That is probably a big factor in being able to get free of him too, you’re too enmeshed with him.

NEVER feel guilty for leaving him, he did this to you and your children and he knew exactly what he was doing. You all deserve better. Be justifiably indignant and allow yourself to feel the anger and sadness that you seem to be suppressing.

Lastly I would recommend you read WHY DOES HE DO THAT by Lundy Bancroft. Fabulous book in my opinion. You can get a free PDF just google it. You may be especially interested in the chapters where he discusses abusive men getting help, it is very eye opening and I think it may get you to make that vital firm decision once and for all. Lundy gives great advice to the woman in this situation. I hope it helps.

Forgiveness takes time!!! You can't just treat it like a new relationship

You need to find a non-destructive way of processing the anger and hurt you feel but that is not the same as "forgetting".

My first marriage was like this and it took me a long time to decide to leave. He hasn't changed, nearly 9 years later. I don't think that men like this can change. He is now trying to control our 16yr old DD and I'm trying to work through that with her. Please don't be under any illusions that he's a new man just because he's 'trying'. As someone has already said, you become conditioned to accept this behaviour as it's normal to you. It's only when you leave the relationship that you really realise how destructive and abusive it is.