Parents and their toxic relationship

[evuscha]

First of all, I love my parents and we are all close as a family - I have two older sisters. But my parents' relationship has always been questionable and it's only getting worse and I'm really struggling to stay out of it, and of course every time I interfere, it just causes arguments.

Basically, my dad has always been this old school guy, woman's job is to cook/clean/look after kids, he provided for the family but my mum was never a SAHM, she worked on top of all that too. Dad's attitude to his health has always been ignorant, he smoked like a chimney for many years, unhealthy diet, no exercise. Now it's all catching up with him - his lungs are completely destroyed, he has an irreversible obstruction lung disease which means he can barely walk 100 metres without losing his breath, and every minor cold is potentially dangerous (ended up in hospital on breathing machines more than once). That already severely limits what he can do with his life and he has become very bitter and grumpy in result. Still not blaming his smoking and other life choices but just unhappy in general. On top of that, his terrible diet caused him a severe heart attack last year - helicopter transport involved, mum had to give him first aid, very stressful time, doctors said there is almost no chance to recover, and yet he miraculously did. But he is required to follow a diet and take it easy, and he does none of those things - washes down his blood sugar medicine with a glass of coke, eats all the cakes and sweets he can find, orders mum to cook him fried meaty food every day etc. Mum not only enables him but seems to encourage him, brings him all these things and buys it for him. Partly because she feels sorry for him, and partly because she wants to avoid the drama - his sulking and shouting and insults when he doesn't get his way. He has always been the sulky type but got a lot lot worse ever since his health issues got worse.

Now my mum is a lovely kind woman, she hates confrontation and arguments and want to make others happy and always puts herself last. She would never leave him - partly because after 40+ years together she can't even imagine any different, she doesn't have anywhere to go, divorce is still not a thing for their generation around my hometown, but partly because of course she knows he wouldn't survive for a week without her. He can't cook or take care of himself, he would just totally give up and she knows it. So she sacrifices her life to care for him. But rather than push him to look after his health, she basically supports him destroying his health even more. But his terrible health is destroying her too - every episode when he ends up in a hospital, she's a nervous wreck, doesn't eat or sleep for days. On top of that he makes her run around him as a servant in the house, but also do jobs around the garden and the (large) house that he used to do but now can't due to his health - but he wouldn't pay anyone to do those jobs (he's tight with money) and he wouldn't downsize so she's pushed to do all that otherwise here comes the sulking and shouting again. As a result, she's exhausted mentally and physically, she's aged so much in the last few years and I really worry about her, this will drive her to death. She also basically can't have a life, can't travel etc even if normally she would love to, but he can't and she won't leave him at home alone (partly due to worrying about him and partly due to his sulking). It breaks my heart.

I've tried talking to them both, arguing with them both, to no effect whatsoever. I'm only told to mind my own business (by dad) and to not make things worse (by mum).

I know I can't change what two adults do with their health, their relationship and their lives, but it still is so frustrating and painful to watch.

I don't even know what I'm asking. I suppose the similar stories of others and how you dealt with it? I already live quite far away which means seeing them once a month (and I will be moving abroad soon so even less frequently then) which I guess helps with the staying out of it part. But it still doesn't stop me worrying. Any experience and advice will be appreciated.

OK. So your dad is a dictator and your mum is a doormat.

You cannot change their relationship with each other.

What do YOU want? For yourself. Not for them. If you were living your own ideal life, what would that look like?

Leave your dad to eat and drink what he wants. That is not a huge issue. He was close to death and I imagine food and drink may be the only joy he gets from life as he is not immobile. It’s such a small issue.

The big issue is you poor mum. She is choosing her role and sadly she is the only one who can change that. Be there to support her, offer advice (without your father present). Maybe for birthdays/mother’s day buy her a gift certificate to get her out or a weekend away with you- girls trip?

Could you talk your mum into counseling?

It must be horrible to watch your mum’s health decline 💐

*not mobile

Thanks everyone for responses, you summed it up perfectly. I try to do all these things, sending mum flowers, treating her to things, listening to her talk about it. It's still painful to see that even if she knows he's in the wrong, she still goes back every single time and does whatever he wants. Even if not convenient / very tiring for her. I guess what I would want, in an ideal world, is for them both to stop damaging themselves. If mum left and went to enjoy her life and he would wake up, step up and start caring for himself a bit more. That's never going to happen though and if she did leave (she won't) he would just give up completely. I guess the question is do I just leave them to it, as painful as it is, or do I keep going on about it hoping something sinks in. It would help if my mum started saying no to dad a bit more - he would sulk at first but he's not dangerous or violent and he would learn eventually, I think. But she's never said no.

Surprisingly enough watching this all my life hasn't impacted my own relationship choices - my soon to be DH is the kindest man in the world and we have a very equal relationship. So as for what I want for myself, I'm good. I just want my parents to be ok.

Sadly you cannot do anything about their relationship and all you can do ultimately is not give away more to them than you can afford to lose. You cannot set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm and neither will thank you for your views as you have already seen.

Sadly for you, your mother is getting what she wants out of this relationship with your dad and vice versa. She has always had a choice here and she has chosen him and on some level this still works for her.

Change is scary and she is sticking with what she knows. Also denial is a powerful force and she may think she is happy in her own way too. What do you yourself know about your mother's familial background, that often gives clues. What did her parents teach her about relationships?. She was taught to hate confrontation, and amongst other things, also taught to act as a doormat for others like your dad to wipe their feet on.

"I guess the question is do I just leave them to it, as painful as it is, or do I keep going on about it hoping something sinks in"

I would leave them to it. Be her daughter, not her therapist. Raise your boundaries higher re your mother in particular. You cannot change what on some level still works for them and you do not know the inner workings of their relationship. This still works for them on some level. Your parents between them taught you some valuable relationship lessons i.e. how not to behave in a couple relationship.

Thank you Attila, that really helps. I once had a brief counseling and was told that you can't change what others do, you can only change your reaction to it, which I know is true. I just want my parents happy and healthy and they are neither of these things at the moment through their own choices. But yeah, I know, ultimately I can only change how I react to it.

I know, ultimately I can only change how I react to it.

You sound like a very caring person, and it's hard to switch that off, particularly when it's people you genuinely love.

Could you park all the rest of it for a bit, get your siblings on board and hire some physical labour to get the garden and house sorted? Present it to your Dad as a gift? Be all happy and smiley and 'Hey Dad, look what we've done for you!" enthusiastic. Would that work?

Then at least your Mum wouldn't have to do that on top of everything else.

'I guess the question is do I just leave them to it, as painful as it is, or do I keep going on about it hoping something sinks in'

My parents have a toxic relationship too, and, thanks to a lot of good therapy, I was able to decide to leave them to it. It hurts, it's very sad, very painful, and I wish things were different. Ultimately though, I had to choose my own wellbeing and sanity and that meant reducing my contact with both of them, and not getting involved in any conversations about their relationship. Setting boundaries, in other words . This is not your problem to fix OP

Lottapianos sorry to hear you've been through the same. It is very sad but yes I know, I will probably need to do a bit more therapy to work through it but ultimately I know there is not much I can do.

GreenFingers we do try to help as much as we can, my sisters live nearby and both BILs especially get involved a lot with the physical jobs. There is still a lot of the every day little jobs to do though (massive gardens, chicken and other animals, the usual cooking and cleaning..) which all falls on mum (the only thing dad is really involved in is the fields, he's ex farmer and is still keeping the fields despite not having the health to handle it and us all begging him to sell or rent out) Both parents are too old school to accept paid help (and dad is too tight to actually pay for it himself although he does have a lot in savings plus a decent pension) Basically an incredibly frustrating situation to watch - both of them making things worse for themselves and throwing their health away in their own ways, instead of doing what a normal person would do - making things easier, getting some help or downsizing, and actually enjoying their retirement.