Boyfriend and payday loans - WWYD?

[redflagalert]

Hi all, just after a bit of friendly advice. NC as there are quite a few on here who know me

Quick background- been with bf around 6 months. All going well, he seems a genuine, honest guy and things are going really nicely in terms of the relationship.
We're both independent, both have mortgages (well as far as I'm aware he has one, I only have his word on this!) and while we see each other very regularly we have no plans to move in together or anything like that for a long time - I want to keep things slow and he seems happy with that.

Here's my issue (or is it? I don't know that's why I'm posting!) I needed him to email me something and, as he was busy doing something else, he just told me to go on his phone and forward the email I needed. All fine, but while I was on there I noticed a few emails from payday loan companies.
As much as I hate to admit doing this, a bit later while he was in the shower I had a quick further snoop and I don't think that these were spam emails. They were payment schedules etc, not totalling a massive amount but I'd say over £2k altogether.
We haven't reached a point where we've discussed finances, we haven't needed to. He works hard at his job and never asks me to pay for anything (I always offer to pay my half when we go on dates but 9/10 he insists on paying so I tend to balance this by buying bits in/ cooking when we have nights in etc or I'll just book cinema tickets or something)
I don't really know what I'm asking other than do you think I should mention it? Is it a red flag? Or non of my business as it really doesn't affect me at the moment? If anything I'd just like him to feel he can talk to me about stuff like this 🤷🏻‍♀️
He changed jobs around Xmas time so I guess it could be just to see him through the swap over period?

I do tend to be on high alert with things like this after being with a total cocklodger for a while. Please don't attack me for checking his emails, I know it's a bit of a shit thing to do.

it would make me wonder about his ability to manage his finances and live within his means

I wouldn’t be happy with or accept a bf “insisting” on paying for 90% of dates etc.

Not great that he’s using these loans, but not very surprising that he hasn’t divulged it given the stage of dating you’re at.

... I couldn't help noticing while I was rootling around in your emails...

But even so, I think you should bring it up. Or actually just dump and run away. Payday loans are v bad way to handle money, and money issues, like it or not, are important if you're going to get serious.

I'd give it a little bit of time. It could certainly be the job swap, it can catch people out.

It could also be that he's over spent a little trying to impress you.

My Partner did this when we first met. It took me a while to twig. I didn't mention it as such, I just sort of made it clear a night in front of the tv with food I got but he cooked wonderfully was lovely instead of an expensive night out. As it turns out, 5 years later and having lived together for 4 years, he's far better with money than I'll ever be...

Yes that's what I was thinking too.
But do I worry? Or just leave him to it? He's a grown man after all and if we reach a point where we are going to live together or anything like that then confront it then?

*when I say twig, I knew his salary for various reasons and slowly clicked he couldn't be affording what he was spending. Then eventually spotted a letter at his house on the side.

But since he allowed you access to his email and you could easily just see the initial emails you could ask him about it. I wouldn't mention the further snooping personally.

It's hard because it's not like you can monitor it can you?

So you either have to ask and hope for a truthful answer, or you wait an until such time as it would have a direct effect on your life together moving forward - i.e. living together.

I waited for a while and saw a drop in the impressing me stuff, and more a change towards doing things which I knew we could afford.

So I didn't concern myself. I couldn't see anything else going on his life that would be causing him to waste money it seemed very purely related to damn male pride and thinking he needed to 'treat' me.

And it was all sorted within the months afterwards and he was back on track. He knows now that I knew.

The first thing you need to do is to stop letting him pay for you and stop having expensive dates. Payday loans can quickly spiral out of control.

You are at a very early stage so I don't think he's obliged to divulge his financial affairs to you but i can see why you are worried. Payday loans are a very expensive way of borrowing for people with poor credit scores so this could be the tip of the iceberg and he could have quite a lot of bad debt. I think you need to ask him asvjur it

Thanks for all your replies. I may try to steer the conversation that way and have a general discussion about money just to gauge his reaction. I don't want to come across as though I care too much about his financial state at this stage of our relationship.
@Loopytiles when I say insists, I mean he doesn't hold a gun to my head or anything . If I didn't put something in in other ways I'd be more insistent on paying for dates but as it is we probably contribute evenly just in different ways

I'm not sure whether or not to bring it up OP. It's very early days (6mths) for the two of you and I'd certainly be cautious of getting financially entwined or lending him any money (apart from the occasional small £sum) which you could afford to lose if things didn't work out between you, as you don't know his financial history.

Contributing “in other ways” isn’t relevant to the issue of whether or not you are sharing the financial costs of the things you do together. Not good IMO if overall he is covering a much higher proportion of those costs. And you now know he has financial problems.

@KylieKoKo I think things are heading that way now. In a good way. We've been having more date nights in and just doing more things as a couple rather than actual 'dates' things like going running together, playing squash or visiting a city and just walking and taking it in that kind of thing
@theemmadilemma I do think male pride comes into it. I got the impression he wanted to 'impress' me at the start but in all honesty I think my general lack of interest in material things confused him slightly. As we've got to know each other better he seems to be understanding that I don't need all that crap and I'm actually happiest with the simple stuff and he doesn't need to use money to impress me.
I am also financially stable, run a successful business and while I wouldn't call myself 'rich' I do have a decent disposable income so I don't know if he feels he has to 'keep up' if that makes sense?
I haven't ever (I hope!) made him feel that way though, I don't flash money around and like to keep my life quite stripped back.

@Loopytiles how isn't it relevant? Is money only counted if you're out of the house??
We might have a date night out once every couple of weeks which costs say between £60-£80 which he'll want to pay for but then
3/4 nights a week I'll buy food in to cook or buy us a takeaway, or arrange a cinema trip or equivalent so if you even it all out we're probably paying around the same - he just likes to get the bill if we dine out? 🤷🏻‍♀️
I always offer when we dine out, he always offers to give me something towards me getting stuff in but neither of us ever accepts.
God this sounds so bonkers written down! 

Then you’re sharing the financial costs roughly equally - fair enough!

I would find this worrying OP, as it does imply someone who is very bad at managing money - especially if he’s insisting on paying for you at the same time. I think I would mention this (as you had a valid reason to see his emails) and see what his response is. After that, leave him to it but be wary!

@Happynow001 no I know I agree with you about it being early days for us and I don't want to spoil things. He's lovely, thoughtful, kind and he makes me laugh. And no he's never asked to borrow money.

I think I'm just going to make an effort to suggest doing things that don't cost for now and just keep an eye out for anything else.

Hmmmmm payday loans would have me worried. Surely everyone knows they are awful.

All through the early part of my relationship with DH i would discuss threads from Mumsnet all the time to check we were on the same page. It's bloody invaluable i reckon.

So I'd say you'd read one of the DP in debt threads. Better still actually read one. Set out the scenario and ask him his thoughts.

I asked lots of money, relationship, parenting questions etc. I do the same with my kids in terms of moral dilemmas. They love it.

@Wallywobbles that's a really good idea actually! I might read this one to him 😂

@Loopytiles sorry, maybe I didn't come across very clearly originally but that's what I was meaning!

@redflagalert that is similar to my situation. I was a higher earner than him at that point by far. (He's now closing that bridge fast!)

I think something just made him think I needed all that. I didn't I just wanted to be around him. Once he realised that things changed and it sounds like your relationship is too.

@theemmadilemma thank you, it does sound very similar. He's very career focused, and works very hard - he left his previous job because he'd reached as far as he could go with it so has moved to something in which he hopes to progress further and has already moved 'up' a position in the short time he's been there so I don't think he's out to sponge off me or anything like that. He's maybe just got caught out with the job swap/ Xmas
I think it's slowly dawning on him that I'm actually happiest with a pie and a pint over a fancy meal, or camping in a muddy field over a fancy hotel
Gut feeling is to let it play out for now but just keep an eye out.

Early in our relationship, my husband racked up a lot of debt through payday loans. It started when he lost his job and couldn’t get another for a few months due to a long illness. A few years later, he’s paid it all off, worked his credit rating up and has a lot of money in savings.

I wouldn’t write him off just yet, but maybe have a chat about finances.

I don’t like payday loan companies but the loans themselves have thier uses. It usually means your credit rating isn’t great.

I wouldn’t bring it up. It sounds like you are treating each other well and otherwise the start of a good relationship. No other red flags so just keep going as you are.

But do talk about threads and their issues. It's a real shortcut to issues that might crop up. That way you don't have to wait until it happens. No chance of us having a silent meal because I've always got a new dilemma.

My previous relationship had been abusive and I was doing the freedom program online at the same time. It helped me understand how warped my thinking had become.