open relationships when youve got a kid....

[MaeBee]

PLEASE no moralistic rants here! but wanted to know if anyone has any experience of open relationships after having children? i dont do monogamous relationships( for a host of political and personal reasons),and me and my dp, who i now live with, are totally happy to continue having an open relationship, but arent sure how its going to work in practice.
at the moment i have no sex drive at all and making time for sex with my dp is hard enough! but theoretically its still all ok for us to continue seeing other people. just wondered if anyone has anything useful to say on the matter.

i think open relationships can work if both partners are 100% happy with it.but if one is keener on the idea than the other than it causes major problems,and probably break up.i had a kind of open relationship with my dd's dad (open on his part more than mine) and it caused major problems for me after she was born.i don't think you should agree to it just cos you have no sex drive cos it is gonna make you feel a million times worse about yourself.wouldn't it be better he used prostitutes than had other relationships? i think i would prefer it.

no no its not like that! we are both not into the idea of monogamy, i just meant that we are currently not practising an open relationship cos neither of us have time and energy. we have been together 5 years and during that time i had another partner for all but the last year (who i split up with because me and my dp decided to have a baby together...me adn the now ex are best friends still)
i certainly wouldn't be okay with him paying for sex!!! its not actually about getting as much sex as you can for either of us, and he's being a star about my low sex drive.im bfing so its all to be expected.
i utterly agree you have to both agree to it in reality, not just theory. its like all things i think, but especially sexual ones, both (or more) parties have to be honest and frank and clear and happy with whats going on.

ok,no experience of that,sorry.

I don't have an open relationship but I'm in a complicated situation that might share elements with yours.

I'm not with "dh" anymore but for practical reasons I still live with him. Luckily we work well together as parents & have a calm & happy friendship. My children think we're normal parents with a normal marriage--they're 7 and 4 and don't need to know more at this stage.

Meanwhile I've had a boyfriend for 2 years. My kids know him, like him a lot, & I think sense he's more than a friendbut they wouldn't think it strange, really, because that's just the way things are as far as they're concerned. On the other hand he's not around that muchI usually see him at his placeso it might be a bit different if you and your dp have partners around to your place. . Still, I think that kids get used to what's "normal" in their home, and I would think that a lot of arguing/shouting between partners might be worse for them psychologically than an offbeat (but harmonious) domestic situation. But I'm not a child psychologist, so what do I knowit's just my opinion.

no experience I'm afraid. But why should it be different, in terms of practicalities, when you have a child? Are you concerned that you will not have the time or energy to pursue other partnerships, while your dp will?

You need madamez for this one!

PS I don't know if I answered that right. I assumed you were asking if having a non-monagamous relationship does damage to the kids.

I don't know. I think it is okay for children to experience when they have the ability to understand your motivations and indeed you would probably want them to see and understand your relationship for what it is as this is clearly a fundamental set of beliefs you have as a couple, as individuals and thus as a family. However, at an age when security and clarity and consistency is key, I think you'd have to be quite careful.

I would assume, however, that such relationships with the other person are conducted as a mutual friendship between all adults with the sex part being private, yes? If so, then I don't think such as situation will give rise to any confusion in the child.

I would ask though, do you have time in your life emotionally and practically to commit yourself to your child, your partner and another adult in a deep and meaningful way?

xanthipi FWIW I think you're right. IMO if your children are secure, then the specific arrangements are pretty irrelevant. I grew up with a lot of arguments and tension between my parents, which I never understood, and I know now they stayed together for us - a crap solution all round!

bumping this for you
in the hope Madamez will spot it

Could turn into a fascinating thread this!

newlifenewname: yep, thats about it really! the sex is private so the kids don't need to know about it.

all - its the practicalities of it all i guess! before i wouldn't live with a partner, and me and dp only moved in together to be a family, when i was pregnant. at the moment i don't have time and energy, and nor does he, but i was just pondering the future, and how to ensure equality and happiness for all concerned, not just me and dp but also "outside" parties and our kids.

at the moment i struggle to maintain my friendships properly, and wouldn't have time and room for anyone new. but im interested to hear how people manage it. most of our friends are into open relationships (we're anarchists and so are most people i hang out with) but few of them have kids and the ones that do are monogamous.

Xan:

"Meanwhile I've had a boyfriend for 2 years. My kids know him, like him a lot, & I think sense he's more than a friendbut they wouldn't think it strange, really, because that's just the way things are as far as they're concerned. On the other hand he's not around that muchI usually see him at his placeso it might be a bit different if you and your dp have partners around to your place. . Still, I think that kids get used to what's "normal" in their home, and I would think that a lot of arguing/shouting between partners might be worse for them psychologically than an offbeat (but harmonious) domestic situation. But I'm not a child psychologist, so what do I knowit's just my opinion."

My parents had a relationship like that. They were separated but lived together and my mother had boyfriends. Obviously as a small child I didn't know any different but as I got older it was difficult not having a normal family set-up and dealing with people who thought it was odd that my mothers boyfriend would come on holiday with us.

As a teenager I found it acutely embarrassing and just wanted my parents to be like everyone elses.

There are no rights and wrongs, but just because children aren't being exposed to tension/arguing/shouting doesn't mean that they are not being upset/made to feel uncomfortable in some way.

And I used to hate it when my mother had a boyfriend. She would either be out all the time, or mooning around the house. Or I would have to spend interminable evenings with her bo-fo's interrupting my homework and trying to be my friend.

I always felt second best to my mum's love life to be honest with you.

Children tend to be very black and white about stuff, particularly teenagers so I would not be very open about any arrangements you make as they are growing up (letting them keep the world black and white keeps it secure for them while they are growing - that's why you show them the adult world gently as they are growing so they don't cope with too much too young)

Practically - just don't do what my parents did - catch them doing double entry when I was 8 or 9 - screwed me up right royally sex wise for years.

Still have to deal with the fall out of their very inappropriate behaviour 30 years on

omg you poor thing.that must have been traumatic!!

Jesus christ laurie, that's awful.

obimomkanbi: i hear you. but also that can apply to anyone whose mum has new sexual relationships, so any single mum, or divorced mum. and as for difference, i do think all teenagers feel acute embarassment at the ir parents, including if their parents are different, like in a mixed race, or female-female relationship etc.

lauriefairycake: yep, doesnt sound the best thing to stumble across your parents doing!!! but i hope to god we don't want our kids coming across most of our sexual practices, be it bringing yourself off to porn or a bit of bondage!!!

Maebee, it's just stuff that you might want to bear in mind.

obimomkonibe

I'm so glad you said all that--that's interesting. And worrying!

I wonder (just because I'd love to find an alternative that'd be better for my kids): do you think you'd have been happier if, say, your mother left the marriage & married (or lived with) someone else? Would you have felt (a) less embarrassed & (b) less like you were being abandoned because she wouldn't have had to go out so much to meet her bfriends? and she'd not be pining for them in between? Or would it have been worse if she (and you) moved out, because your dad wouldn't have been around as much.

That strikes me as the real dilemma. In some ways it must be good for a child to have their dad around as much as their mum unless the relationship is a complete disaster.

Also: did your mother have a series of short term boyfriends, or was she ever in a committed one for several years? Was your house a revolving door for a succession of strange men over time; if so, is that worse than a mother having one long-term partner?

If you were both happy with the agreement before there is no reason why it can't work again, espcially if your child is young enough not to know any different. Children are very accepting of situations that maybe aren't the "norm". Why not give yourselves a time limit? Try it for 3 months and if it works continue if not discuss why not and resolve from there. Good luck

Xan- interesting questions!!

Obviously as an adult my perspective is that it would have been better if my parents had lived separately. And then my mothers partners would have been 'proper' partners. As it was no one in the extended family knew the true nature of my parents relationship so I guess the secrecy angle was problematic too!!

My mother had 3 long term relationships (eg 2 years and over)and a few short term flirtations. When I was little it didn't bother me, but as I got to about 10+ it did. I'd feel jealous if my mother got taken out to nice places, I missed her when she was out and if we did stuff in the holidays/weekends that involved my dad and her boyfriend I'd have to 'amend' the story so that people wouldn't ask awkward questions.

I sound like I was a right spoilt git, but I wasn't!! I just felt insecure and I liked the rare evenings when it was just me, my mum and my dad at home together.

That's so interesting, Obi, and you don't sound spoilt at all--I can understand how you may have felt and it's so helpful to know this.

My situation is so similar. The families (most llive far away) don't know about my "marriage": the knowledge would be heartbreaking among the more conservative/elderly quarters, eg my parents. (My brother knows, though.) Similarly I keep my domestic situation private from the dc's school worlds because the other parents aren't necessarily my friends, and it's none of their business. .. so why be a source of gossip to parents who have nothing better to do. That said, one of the motherswho is marginally in my fieldsaw bf and I holding hands at a party. . .so I guess the "secret" will be out soon enough. But I don't mind because I don't view it as a secret.

I guess what worries me most is your really good point about feeling "second fiddle". My kids probably feel that way too, or will. About once a week I sleep at bf's house; & i get very emotional re. the ups and downs of the relationship. Worse, I'm really devoted to my workI'm a writer and probably shouldn't ever had childrenso they might even feel third place sometimes. Which is terrible. But I just can't help the way I'm wired; I just can't be trapped and I can't not do what I do. The kids will suffer, but hopefully they'll be proud, too, and even their dad thinks I'm an incredibly good mother to them in most ways.

(BTW So sorry to hijack your thread, MaeBee, but maybe bits of this conversation might be relevant to you too.)

my parents had an open relationship for a while when I was a teen. I hated it and felt that my parents had no regard for my feelings. It seriously damaged my relationship with my mother for quite a while.

Maebee: as you no doubt already know, open relationships are a fairly constant progress of adapting and negotiating. I don't know how old your DCs are but I get the impression you've got one young baby and therefore it's not surprising that you're feeling a bit all over the place at the moment, so I wouldn't worry about that bit too much.
Your DCs won't be harmed by your rejection of monogamy any more than they'd automatically be benefited by having parents who are monogamous in practice but resent each other for it If they are getting old enough to distinguish one non-parent adult from another then all they need to know is that X or Y or Z are Mummy or Daddy's friends, no need to label people in any particular way.
If you don't already own a copy, get hold of The Ehtical SLut by Easton and Liszt, which is still the best all-round guide to monogamy-free living I can think of (one just has to put up with the occasional digressions into icky American therapy-guff): one very good tip is to buy big diaries and use them so no one feels left out or slighted.

Connor, sorry to hear you had a bad time with monogamy-free parents: was it that they were too consumed with their own lives to pay you enough attention or was it that their behaviour got you talked about in the neighbourhood?

xan - hijack away! its all in a broad theme.

madamez - i have read the ethical slut, some time ago now. ive read quite a lot, and ive even written my own pamphlet on open relationships, but was just curious to hear of how these are working out once the babies come. i never thought i would have a child, or co-habit with a partner, so now that ive found myself in this situation many things i took for granted in my life come into question. my baby is only 9 mths, and i certainly don't feel a rush to get into any feisty situation. at the moment my idea of a great time in bed is sleeping beyond 6am!
but while ive done open relationships for the last 15 yrs, and, i hope, getting "better" at it all, the whole having a baby and a family thing is new. for a start, i very much didn't believe in having a "primary" partner, my current dp and my ex were definately "equal but different", but now dp is the father of my child, and my child comes first.
my dp wonders whether im so uninterested in sex because its not a challenge any more. ive always struggled with jealousy, but its also been arousing for me too. it keeps you on your toes a bit!
i agree you don't have to declare to your child your sexual practices or partners. i always guessed who my dad was sleeping with anyway.....!(yes, my parents were "monogamous" and cheating somewhat transparently!)
on a light note, a friend of mine has a little girl who was once quizzing me because she knew i had two boyfriends, i had taken her out on day trips with them both. she sighed sympathetically and said "i know what its like, because when i was in nursery i used to have 3 kings, but now i think one boyfriend is too much trouble."

Maebee: thought you would probably have read it My situation is that DS' dad is not my partner at all but an old drinking buddy (Ok we did date each other for a while nearly 20 years ago but split quite amicably and stayed in touch). We get on fab as co-parents who don't live together and gossip away about our respective shag action (well mine consists of getting lucky at a swingers' party now and again and he is doing internet dating). The couple of friends of mine who spring to mind straight away are married (but not monogamous) and have an 18 year old daughter and basically they have always had friends in and out of the house, everyone always quite affectionate with each other but (I think) any shag action that wasn't between the parents either took place out of the house or when their DD was not at home.
I think parenthood is a huge shock for everyone no matter how much it might have been longed for and planned for, and every aspect of your life has to be rearranged and rethought. THis isn't to say that you'll automatically end up either monogamous or fretting about whether your DH is cheating: with good communication and good will you should get through just fine. It just isn't quite the same as before because (obviously) you can't just drop everything and take off for a night of fun without having to find a good babysitter.
Best of luck with it