*TW Abuse* Was he a paedophile or just an alcoholic?

[YetAnotherSurvivor]

NC for obvious reasons. Please don’t read this if it will upset you, I don’t want to upset anyone. Sorry this is so long.

I was abused by my father when I was younger. Unfortunately my memories of the whole thing - and indeed of my whole life in the years surrounding the abuse - are limited. The first incident I remember clearly was definitely when I was 11, as I had just started my periods. However, I’m reasonably sure it started much earlier due to other strange memories that make no sense (e.g. asking his longterm girlfriend if she could lock our bedroom door with a key at night when I was about 6 or 7 - I remember this very clearly).

That first clear incident, he and his gf had broken up for a while but she came out with us for the day (we were very close to her). I remember we were in a pub playing pool, and my period started - I didn’t want to talk to my dad about it so I asked her if she had any money for the machine in the loos. He was absolutely furious with me, and said I shouldn’t have done that and if they didn’t get back together it was my fault (as opposed to his fault for beating her up and treating her like shit). For some reason she stayed that night, I have no idea why.

That night I woke up to him getting into my bed in the middle of the night. I remember telling him he was in the wrong bed but he didn’t listen. I remember him hugging me from behind and putting his hands down the back of my underwear and panicking because I was on my period, and I remember he was lying on me in such a way that I couldn’t get up. I don’t remember much else until he fell asleep and I managed to get out of the bed and go and sleep on the sofa. His gf woke up, found him in my bed and me on the sofa and went crazy and left. Never saw her again after that.

My father apologised to me and said that he had been so drunk that when he got up to go to the loo he got back into the wrong bed. He said it wouldn’t have happened if he were sober. He said I mustn’t tell my mother as she would read something into it and we wouldn’t be allowed to see him again. I remember that I resisted when he tried to hug me and he hit me.

When I went home (we lived hours away so stays with him were long), I told my mum I didn’t want to go there any more. She said I had to because otherwise he would stop paying maintenance again. I didn’t tell her why and I didn’t want her to struggle so I kept going.

The last incident I remember was his wedding night - he got married to someone else when I was 13. That night he ended up in my bed again. This time I really tried to tell him no, this is the wrong bed, go back to bed - obviously he didn’t listen.

I only saw him again once after that - he and his wife took us on holiday but the sleeping arrangements meant he couldn’t do anything without being seen. There was so much violence between them on that trip that when I told my mum she agreed I didn’t have to go again.

For my whole life I’ve believed that he was just drunk, wouldn’t have happened if he wasn’t an alcoholic (he was always drunk, especially after he broke up with his gf). He never showed any other signs of being a paedophile at all, all his relationships were with adult women, I believe my sister that he never touched her.

I was having counselling while I was pregnant due to fear of giving birth and all of this came out. I told her that I didn’t believe he was a paedophile and that it wouldn’t have happened if he wasn’t drunk. She looked absolutely shocked that I would think that and talked to me about it for quite a long time.

Now I have children of my own I don’t know what to think. I can’t imagine ever so much as slapping my children, I would never ever hurt them. Even if the first incident that I remember was legitimately an “accident”, wouldn’t you make sure it never happened again? I don’t know why it matters but it seems to matter to me.

I told my mum in my mid teens - she then ambushed me at a counselling appointment with someone from SS. I refused to give a statement to the police. At that stage I still believed it was an accident and I hated the thought of him being arrested. Now I think what if he was a paedophile and he has been able to hurt other children because I did nothing?

Can anyone relate to any of this? My head is a mess right now.

Is he still alive? I'm so sorry your went through this. I would day he knew what he was doing and used being drunk as an excuse.

I have zero experience in this area but I too believe he's a paedophile. Drink is his excuse.

"Now I think what if he was a paedophile and he has been able to hurt other children because I did nothing?"

Whatever he has done is on him, not on you. Your father abused you, and in doing so made it hard for you to tell anyone. That is on him, not you. His GF didn't report him and she was an adult. Your Mum chose to send you back because of the money- she was an adult.

You were not only a child, you were an abused and groomed child. It is not in any way your fault that you didn't report him.

Thank you everyone.

I think he’s still alive but I don’t know for sure - I have no contact with his family and my name is different now, even if someone tried to notify me of his death I’m not sure they’d be able to find me.

The last time I ever spoke to him I was about 16 - he called my house and I answered the phone. At the time my mum was trying to get him to pay all the maintenance he owed through the courts. He talked to me like nothing had ever happened - asked me if I had a boyfriend. I was so shocked and so scared of him I just talked to him and then hung up. I would do it very differently if I spoke to him now.

I’ve always felt like a bit of a fraud even describing it as abuse - in my head I justify it: the abuse wasn’t that bad (that I can remember), he was just drunk, could have been worse etc. It’s only with all the stuff in the news recently that I realise many victims feel this way. I thought it was just me.

You do whatever you need to help yourself heal and find some peace.

He sexually abused you. He hit you. He threatened you, and blamed you for his girlfriend leaving him, rather than accepting responsibility for his own actions.

On top of that, he's an alcoholic.

If he did abuse other children you are not to blame: he is.

You were a child, and didn't have the power to do anything to stop him. You can still report him to the police if you want to, even if he's died, or you don't know where he is. But don't think that your lack of action all those years ago mean that you're somehow culpable. You're not.

I, thankfully, can't relate to this as I had a wonderful father. My DM and her siblings however were sexually abused by their father. He did make a pass at both me and a cousin when we were children but we told our parents. That ended the relationship with my family.

My DM has never been able to talk about this properly with the family and says counselling made things worse as it brought all her bad childhood memories back. Her way of dealing with it is to try not to think of it. This has naturally impacted on her relationships.

I'm telling you this in the hope that you will go for counselling/therapy and deal with it so that you can properly move forward in your life. This is what my DM should have done but couldn't.

If you don't deal with it correctly , it will just keep coming back to haunt you.

OP I am sorry this happened to you. I completely adored my DF but he turned to drink when my mum died. I went to visit him.one weekend and he got very drunk and tried to full on kiss me on the lips. I was about 25 or so .i was so shocked I went and barricaded myself in my bedroom. It really saddens me thinking about it. He was a lovely caring father, clever, a feminist before I even knew what that meant. I like to think he was drunk and confused because I don't want to think of him "like that" . There were no other dodgy situations. I will never know if he was aware or not....but I think it can be difficult to acknowledge our parents as flawed/crap/evil or whatever as we are socially conditioned to love them unconditionally etc. I hope you can find your peace with this.

*He sexually abused you. He hit you. He threatened you, and blamed you for his girlfriend leaving him, rather than accepting responsibility for his own actions.

On top of that, he's an alcoholic.*

This.

I'd be prosecuting him.

If he has done this to others (not your fault in any way), it may help them to have other 'claims' and cases alongside theirs.

Actually I blame his gf for not reporting him on your behalf and any other potential victims/survivors.

Oh my god you poor thing, it's awful, all of it. The adults were in charge and nobody protected you. His girlfriend should have intervened, your mum shouldn't have made you keep going for the maintenance.

I'm sorry I have no advice or experience. I just wanted to tell you how sorry I am.

Thank you so much everyone. It’s really helpful to hear objective perspectives on this because I have no objectivity at all.

I did have counselling in my teens - I was very depressed, self harming, suicidal and my mum sorted out counselling for me. That’s when all this came out. I don’t think my mum completely believed me, and was very much of the “this was years ago, you should be over it by now” (which is sort of ironic as she had an awful childhood herself and she never got over it, and ended up having a nervous breakdown before she knew about the abuse). My sister didn’t believe me, I’m sure and was very upset about not seeing him any more because of me.

Later when my mum was trying to get maintenance from him she wrote him a letter saying after everything he’d done to me, the least he could do was support me to continue my education through a-levels and university. He wrote back saying something like “you’re saying I sexually abused her, I would never do anything like that, I love my kids”. She’d never mentioned anything about sexual abuse - seeing that response seemed to change my mum and sister’s minds.

I don’t think I could go to the police now. My memory is too patchy, i would get ripped to shreds by the defence. My sister could confirm that she woke up to find him in our bed (we shared a double bed at his house, so I also have guilt that I got out of bed and left him there with her but she insists nothing happened and I believe her - she’s told me about other abuse she experienced from someone else as a child, I think she would tell me). I have no way of contacting his girlfriend - I managed to find out her surname and tried to look her up once. I messaged someone I thought was her on faceboook but got no reply. It’s a very common name, it might not have been her.

I don’t blame her or my mum, they didn’t know. His girlfriend only knew that he’d got into my bed and I’d got out, I said nothing happened. But her reaction makes me wonder if she knew more - I do think it started much earlier but I don’t remember any earlier events specifically. My mum has no idea, although he was very abusive to her and I’m surprised she let us go and stay with him for school holidays etc. I would fight very hard not to send my children to someone like him.

I thought I had processed it and dealt with it but clearly I haven’t. Becoming a mother has made it much more difficult. I trust my DH entirely but then I know that spouses of abusers generally don’t suspect anything. He is a wonderful father and I’ve made a life for myself that’s so different to my mother’s. But I can’t have sex any more and I don’t know how long our marriage can survive that. It’s not just down to the abuse, it’s related to ill health as well, but I know it doesn’t help.

I know I need to seek counselling again but I don’t know what difference it can really make at this point, having been through it before.

I don’t think I could go to the police now. My memory is too patchy, i would get ripped to shreds by the defence. My sister could confirm that she woke up to find him in our bed (we shared a double bed at his house, so I also have guilt that I got out of bed and left him there with her but she insists nothing happened and I believe her - she’s told me about other abuse she experienced from someone else as a child, I think she would tell me). I have no way of contacting his girlfriend - I managed to find out her surname and tried to look her up once. I messaged someone I thought was her on faceboook but got no reply. It’s a very common name, it might not have been her.

I don't know if that would be the case, but I don't have enough knowledge or experience in this area. Even if you could, I fully understand why you wouldn't want to.

I do blame his girlfriend (and your mum) to some extent, unfortunately her reaction is probably typical for the time though.

It's so sad that your mum and sister doubted you and had to have that response to really suspect; bug again - very sadly - that seems to happen a lot.

*but

I understand why they wouldn’t want to believe it, I really do. I can’t blame them for it, it’s hard to believe a father could do something like this. In my head he’s still a terrifying giant, but I know in reality he’s a pathetic little man - if I saw him now I’m sure I would still be afraid of him. I keep hoping I’ll find out he’s died because I have this fear that he will turn up one day, but I don’t think he could ever find me.

I think I need to start with more counselling and then think more about the police. I wish there was a way to access the memories that are lost to me - I have almost no memories of the years surrounding the abuse, I look at pictures and don’t remember the events they’re taken at, it’s like a black hole in my life - I remember being 5 or 6 and then there’s just flashes until I’m about 14. I wish I could remember it as it feels like those memories are there threatening to pop up at any time. I’m sure I would struggle to process them but at least then I would know what happened to me.

Thank you so much for all your support, it’s hard to challenge your understanding of your own life - it just is, you don’t know any different. My brain still wants to make excuses for him, not for his sake but for mine.

2019 and spirit, I’m so sorry those things happened to you / your mum. I want to believe that what happened to me is rare but I know it isn’t. I can’t comprehend hurting your own children (or any children) - who could do something like that? And when it’s your own parent, does that make you the same sort of person?

I am so sorry that your father abused you and that your mother (as well as his girlfriend) let you down

More counselling is a good idea. You could also look up NAPAC and read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward.

All these terrible posts involving CSA is so very sad, I'm so sorry this happened to you yetanother, I think counseling would be a good idea, understandably hard but I think in the long run you will benefit. I'm sorry you were let down by so many adults.

My counsellor at uni (I forgot I’d even had counselling then - see what I mean about my memory?!) said that mum essentially pimped me out. I’m still shocked by that and I don’t see it that way - she didn’t know, but if your child said they didn’t want to see their parent any more, wouldn’t you ask why? When I eventually told her, it was because she specifically asked me whether he had ever touched me inappropriately. So she must have suspected, but I don’t know when. She’s dead now so I can’t ask. We had a difficult relationship where I barely spoke to her for years, but we reconciled when she was diagnosed with cancer and got very close before she died. I can’t place any blame with her about this. She did frequently put men ahead of her kids which I do blame her for - my stepfather (also an alcoholic) seriously beat me once and I had a head injury. She kicked him out for a day but then he was back. But her life was so messed up she didn’t know any different. It’s not her fault he abused me, only his, I know that. I wish she had probed more though.

I think there are so many people just like me who are suddenly understanding what’s happened in their own lives thanks to Leaving Neverland. I’ve never seen it presented so clearly before. Those brave men have changed so many lives with this.

Look up the Truth Project OP. We've recently had a session with them after my father abused my daughter. After the initial shock of our daughter confiding in us it's human nature to try and see the best in someone and make excuses, but the awful truth is these men ARE paedophiles who groom and manipulate the people around them.

Thank you prof, I will. I’m so sorry, can’t imagine how you must feel

I'm really sorry OP but your mother is absolutely to blame. She is not responsible for the abuse itself but she had a duty to protect you from it and she didn't. She is to blame because she didn't ask why you didn't want to see your father - she probably suspected why and didn't want to hear the answer. She is also to blame for allowing your stepfather to return after what he did to you.

I understand that it's not black and white, there are reasons for her behaviour and she was probably a victim too, but whatever those reasons, she allowed them to let her fail you in her basic duty as a parent - to protect you.

Sexual predators including child sex abusers are on a spectrum just like any other "group" that means that just because your father doesn't fit into a stereotype or box that he didn't abuse you!

abusers can and frequently do for no apparent reason hit one person and miss others in the same circumstances.
Some might only ever touch one child even though they had years of chances with lots of other children. There is no pattern or way to decipher the behaviour, so imo there's no point in trying!
It's like a hurricane, hit one house but miss 30 others and there's no way to predict it!

The fact is it doesn't matter if he ever was inappropriate with any other child, the fact is he was with you and that's what happened and it doesn't matter if that makes it difficult for others to understand or believe because it is a fact and that's all that matters!

No one talks about that and it makes children (adults years on) feel that they must have been somehow complicit or there must have been something about them that caused it and can leave them with years of questions and guilt.

this happened and this is not your fault no matter how confusing that is to anyone else

I'm like you in that massive chunks of my memories are missing but have learned that that is absolutely normal for people who have experienced trauma. So don't worry too much about it because it's a normal (very fucking annoying and unhelpful) effect of trauma. It might come back or not or some new things pop in but others disappear again, again there's no right or wrong or pattern. Iv been told it may be helpful to have a memory notebook to capture things but for me I don't want things down on paper but that's just me.

Sorry such a big response

Thank you Ginky, I’m so sorry you’ve experienced some of the same things - I hope you are as kind and objective to yourself as you are to me (I know that’s difficult)

You may be right about my mum - I just feel like it’s easy to blame her for not doing more in hindsight, I don’t think she suspected what was happening when I first said I didn’t want to go. Maybe she did but I can’t ask now.

It is what it is yet, I won't lie and say things are ok now because they aren't but logically I am quite strong on being understanding of myself and kind about the emotional ramifications Iv been left with.

I think universal blame for your mum is possibly unhelpful for you, it will be difficult for you to come to a conclusion with any of that because she's dead now and you will never know if she knew but I definitely think though that she should (even in death) have some responsibility at her feet.
She failed you in fundamental ways, she repeatedly sent you to an openly unsafe (drink,violence etc) parent because she wanted money, she put you in danger from other men (her relationship partners) then chose them over you. She did nothing to help you or even talk to you when you did disclose the truth. In fact she didn't believe you. She was not a good parent, I'm very sorry for that.

Your mother, they both failed you monumentally and you deserved better. Nothing can change things now but at least you can take some comfort in the fact that due to your circumstances (emotionally,developmentally,etc) you would never ever have been able to protect yourself, and if you wanted to tell someone you had no safe adult to go to, no child could protect themselves but in your case you were at such a disadvantage there just wasn't a hope in hell yet

I hope that when your dark side try's to put blame on yourself you can see that now.