Crazy family stuff that I can't get out of my head. I'm ranting here...I'm sorry.

[Ineedachange]

Two years ago an opportunity for a secondment to the US with DH's employer came up. DH is in a senior global role so it's fair to say we did have some say in this. Our DC's, DD was 13 and DS was 11 at the time. We knew it would be a tricky time in their education to move them, however we felt strongly that this was an opportunity for all of us and we took it.

However DM, and we've always had an antagonistic relationship, was distraught. This relationship deteriorated after I got married. She has had problems with every decision I have ever made in my adult life so I was only mildly surprised, at her response when she learned of our decision to move to the US. However, I was surprised by how nasty things have became. Now the situation between us has gone from bad to worse.

I am the eldest of 4 children, DM is very much a matriarchal figure, and DF who is essentially a quiet man just let her get on with it. She gave up working when I was born and we have been her life. I was the first to leave home, travel, meet DH, get married, have children, and at each one of these incredibly momentous stages of my life my DM and I had disagreements for one reason or another.
Twenty years ago I met DH overseas, we fell in love and he moved to the UK to be with me. It took me a long time to come to terms with the fact he loved me. It's so damn hard to believe even now, and he still tells me everyday

DM's response when I told her I'd met a man and he was coming to the UK; "Oh no". When she first met him; "I think you need someone who is less high-powered". She hated the fact we lived together but when we got engaged and I phoned her with our happy news?... "I don't like you living with him but I never wanted this" - and we'd been living together over a year [hmmm].

DF was always a remote figure, he worked long, long hours and I can't recall him ever engaging with us very much as children. However, my relationship with DF has improved in adulthood. I think this is, to some degree, because I was the only one of us to pursue a career in the same field, and also we tend to think alike. He still will not defend me against DM, and to some extent I can't blame him because she lashes out with horrid, spiteful words that I struggle to believe she means it.
I did go and visit my parents on my own, against DH's advice, before we left. DM decided to air her feelings while we have were having lunch in a busy restaurant. I was a humilitated soggy mess and when DF attempted to defend my position DM turned on him. I desperately wanted to drive straight home, and not stay as planned, but DF pleaded with me to stay.

Prior to us leaving my parents and I had limped along with minimal contact, in the last few years we'd seen each only a couple of times a year. It was always our responsibility to go to them, there was always a reason they couldn't come to us.
So two years ago when I told DM we were possibly going to move to the States for a couple of years she seemed to dismiss it as something that 'may' happen. Two weeks later we had a discussion on the phone, once it finally dawned on her we were likely to be leaving in the next few months, and she became billigerent. Things deteriorated from there.

I've had very little contact with any of my family since we've been here in the US. Where I'm most like DF my sister is most like DM and her critical, disingenous smile, even on Skype, puts me on edge. I'm an emotional coward and I've basically avoided contact with them because I know in their eyes it's all my fault and it's something I just don't want to confront.

To cut a long story short, now we've made the decision to go home after two instead of three years and I know I ought to let my family know we're going home, starting with DM. But I just can't bring myself to do it. I know my DF's health is deteriorating and DM would like some help so the fact I don't want to makes me feel so desperately guilty.

Honestly, I envy my friends who have those wonderful mother/daughter relationships with their DM's, where they are on the phone every other day, and the genuine, beautiful love that shines when they speak of them. I really do

Its not your fault they are like this and you did not make them that way. It is very likely that your mother has some form of untreated - and untreatable personality disorder. Again it is not your fault she is like this. Toxic parents like you describe more often than not are toxic as grandparent figures as well and I sincerely hope your kids have nothing to do with them.

How are your other two siblings treated by them, given what you have said about this one sister she seems to be a carbon copy of mother. She is therefore likely to be more favoured whilst the others are perhaps similarly scapegoated and otherwise abused as you have been and are.

What are your boundaries like here with regards to your parents, they seem very low indeed here. You have physical distance but you need to work on putting more mental distance between you and they also.
That's where boundaries come in.

You are really under no obligation here to tell them anything about your planned move back, you do not have to tell them anything. (Would you have tolerated any of this from a friend, I daresay not). What would it achieve anyway apart from another lot of verbal bile thrown at you by your mother with dad helping her (along the lines of well we knew this was going to happen).

Why did you meet up with your parents despite your DH (rightly as it turns out) advising you otherwise?. Was it due to your own FOG here?. You seem to be still very much mired in fear, obligation and guilt (FOG) re your parents, particularly your mother. Those are but three of many damaging legacies such disordered of thinking parents leave their now adult children.

I would not let your dad off the hook here and would blame him as well because women like your mother always need a willing enabler to help them. That has been your dad throughout; he has basically failed you as a parent too. He's thrown you all under the bus really out of his own self preservation and want of a quiet life. He saw you upset in this restaurant and still begged you to stay so that he would not take her flak. In a straight fight he would and indeed continues to choose her over you, he is truly a weak bystander of a man and infact her secondary abuser.

What does his health have to do with the reason that you don’t communicate with your parents very much?. If your parents are getting old or if either of them is sick, that doesn’t change the fact that you have rights and it doesn’t change the facts about the way that you were treated by them in the past. They are not sorry. They don’t acknowledge the abuse. They never wanted to change or tried to change. So why is it up to you to be there for them when they were never there for you? (and although you are well aware that they fed and clothed you, they housed you, they took care of your physical needs, SO WHAT??). Therefore do not go down that rabbit hole. You cannot set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.

You really owe these two nothing at all. They will not be and are not the nice parents you perhaps on some level want them to be and that is not your fault either. They will not give you approval and they have not changed. These two also had a lifetime to make a difference when it came to you and they chose not to bother, likely instead repeating the same old that was meted out to them.

I would suggest you read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward as a starting point and read/post on the most recent thread on these Relationships pages called "well we took you to Stately Homes". You would fit in there. I would also consider finding a therapist and one at that who has no familial bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment. Interview such people carefully and at length. Such people are like shoes and you need to find one that fits in with your own approach.

I totally understand this but with me it's my dad. I'm NC with him now because he's really abusive in many ways but this is just so frustrating!

All my life he has disagreed with everything I've ever done.

Great opportunity for me as a teenager - he point blank ignored me for 3 weeks (like the mum does in the film Lady Bird).
Getting a new job - he doesn't agree it's good
Meeting DH - he says he's too old
Pregnant with DS - he says i'm too young
Get great promotion - he says I'm letting DS down
Buy house in decent area - he says he disagrees and we should be in council housing where I grew up.
Go on holiday - irresponsible with money
Buy a pair of £16 school shoes - I'm being a spendaholic.

It got to the point I wouldn't let DH tell him we were getting a loft conversion. We were earning about 100k a year and my dad was screaming at me because I put the light on indoors so DC could draw pictures.

The weirdest thing was when I had been in my role for 9 years and DH got promoted to similar role. My dad made a big show of congratulating and asking DH all about the role (he had never acknowledged me doing it or asked a single thing in the 9 years).

Your mum doesn’t want you to be happy. She doesn’t have your best interests at heart. Cut the ties. Move somewhere new and never contact her again. I don’t know why people bother trying to have relationships with people who absolutely are not good for them. I’ve been through all this myself and (thanks to therapy) have cut the ties. I don’t miss them because they never gave me anything good when I was in touch with them. Maybe have some therapy to get your thoughts together. Hugs to you. She sounds awful xx

You are deep in FOG you need to read up about toxic parents. You have your own DC now and they are rightfully your priority.

Your mother will never be happy so cut her loose, go very low contact send her the appropriate cards nothing more. Your father is her enabler so don't excuse him in this toxic mess!

Wow thanks AttilaTheMeerkat such an extensive considered reply. This is all really helpful.

I posted because I really needed to get this stuff off my chest. I hate sharing with people I don't have contact with my family. When I have told a couple of people I've been friendly out here in the US I feel so dreadfully guilty, and when they sympathise I feel like I mustn't be telling the story properly because it's my fault. It's hard to explain, I'm really not looking for sympathy, but I need to get it off my chest.
I can feel this weight getting heavier and heavier the closer to moving home I'm getting, it's almost becoming a physical thing.

The week after next I'm going back home on my own for a week as a reconnaisance mission; I need to sort schools, catch up with friends, talk to ex-colleagues about going back to work, etc.
My youngest sister is the closest to where I will be but I don't want to put her in a compromising situation, I just know she'll feel obliged to tell DM. I just feel it's better to sneak in and out of the country.

I'm such a coward, I feel so guilty for staying out of contact, and yet too afraid to get in contact. I'm such a mess and it's weighing me down.

My DS (18 months younger) says I have a completely different take on my childhood to her, she scoffs at me when I tell her she is DM's goldenchild. My DB (2 and a half yeards younger than me) has a bizarre relationship with DP, too much stuff to go into here. My youngest DS (6 years younger) bears the brunt of everything and unfortunately for her ends up having her ear chewed off by DM about everyone else - it would be unfair of me to go and see her and place in such an awkward position.

And I can sense a showdown coming down the line. Sooner or later DP, as their health deteriorates, are going to need help... and my career, only mine, none of my sibs, is in healthcare. This was one of the things DM threw at me before we left - I had an obligation to take care of my parents. When DF said that I also had an obligation to my own immediate family DM shot him down. Hell, I'm upset now remembering it.

You have ZERO obligation to them!!

They had DC because they wanted them. They haven't brought you up in a nurturing loving environment that means you want to look after them so it's on them isn't it?

Do you expect your DC to look after you? I hope that I have been a good enough parent that my DC genuinely love me and want to be part of my life forever but I don't expect/take it for granted/demand it.

10000days, Mistlewoeandwhine, RandomMess - Thank you, thank you, thank you

Cutting them off feels wrong too, and yet....it would be a relief. I don't know why it has to be so painful.

It just is I think it's a deep grief, probably what should of been

I'd be inclined to not move back near them. Be far away.

When you move back to the UK can you not move far away? Do you have to move back to the same town as your parents?

No I haven't lived within a 3 hour drive of them since I got married. It's always been a slog to get to see them.

I begged DP to move closer to us but they really didn't want to. Until I said we were moving and DM said they'd been looking for houses closer to us, which I don't believe. Even if it's true, how could act so upset that we never discussed the move to the US, and at the same time be plotting to move nearer to us with telling me? It just doesn't add up, it's so infuriating, I could scream. And yet, I'm the one with the problem. As my DS said to me "well, we all think you're a lunatic"
Then I feel like a such a muppet because I let them do this to me!! It gives me a headache just thinking about it.

I'll try and shut up now. I'm ranting and becoming nonsensical. Sorry.
This is really helping.
I'm looking up Dr. Forwards book now...

Your siblings are flying monkeys learn to recognise that, they are stuck playing out the roles allocated to them. Step away from the craziness and be free!

I need to look up flying monkeys

@Ineedachange

I am truly sorry to hear of your dilemma. The anguish you are feeling comes across so clearly, and that's something I understand only too well.

I'm the eldest of four too and your family dynamics are so like mine. Even though I turned myself inside-out trying to be the perfect daughter in the hope I might earn the smallest crumb of affection from my mother, it was all in vain. My mother doesn't love me. Never has. Never will. To her, I am either useful or not useful and this is the sole determinant of her behaviour towards me. She has the emotional age of a toddler.

M lavished attention on my brother but he couldn't cope with it. He simply couldn't be the person she demanded he should be and so he left home at an early age and now leads a solitary life. My middle sister is every bit her mother's daughter. And my youngest sister, my beloved DSis, is the scapegoat and has been since her conception. That's no exaggeration, by the way. She was unwanted and M made that plain right from the start. In fact, when DSis was just 14, she asked Dad if she was adopted because it was the only explanation that made any sense to her. He told her - in what I believe was an attempt to elicit sympathy for his poor hard-done-to wife - to try to understand that M had only ever wanted three children. Well, that's the sort of thing that any normal loving parent would say to Child No. 4, isn't it?

I can't forgive my parents for their casual cruelty to my DSis, by the way. Ever. Emotional abuse leaves no visible scars but the damage is every bit as real and it is there just the same. What you said about your DH was telling:

Twenty years ago I met DH overseas, we fell in love and he moved to the UK to be with me. It took me a long time to come to terms with the fact he loved me. It's so damn hard to believe even now, and he still tells me everyday.

What that suggests to me is that your parents made you feel so unloved as a child and so unloveable, that your DH has to work particularly hard to convince you that he sees and cherishes your true worth. If that really is your parents' legacy to you, then please ask yourself what you owe them in return. And then put your happiness - yours and your family's - first, last, and everywhere else in-between.

Hi OP... I live in Australia, but essentially have the same family set-up. (Possibly more extreme history of abuse - physical violence involved, etc - covered up by DF. Thankfully both parents now deceased.) It was only when my husband was posted to Europe, and we moved our three kids under 4, and I had the mental space to actually realize how much these people were taking up in my head which should have been spent on my children and husband (and myself) instead of polluting my family and my self-esteem to the point where I get like I couldn’t make a decision without involving them and the consequent drama - OMG - what an epiphany! Then both of my parents were diagnosed with life-limiting diseases (and loved the attention) so I spent eight years flying across the planet while my brother sat on his increasingly fat arse (barely seeing them, despite living nearby and being funded very heavily by them) and being subjected to more abuse and humiliation and manipulation.... We moved back here two weeks before my mother died and I still feel the need for holy water and a wooden stake. I feel like she will rise from her grave and scream and shriek and it was just over two years ago. I am still traumatized by her behaviour. (Of course I have started counselling now, and if I come close to repeating these patterns, my husband has permission to throw me out!)
Please look at your father’s behaviour too. He is colluding with your mother. By allowing her to continue to behave the way she has with her treatment of you as a child and into adulthood, he is complicit. This is never unconscious. These are all definitely signs of personality disorders and they tend to hide together. My father hid behind my mother’s raging for years and it took me so long to realize that he was actually the puppeteer.

SingingLily and justilou - thank you for sharing your stories. Honestly, I just feel so glad that it's not just me.
I've have always felt it was me being unreasonable. Afterall, I was well cared-for, and we definitely had good times. It was just when I wanted to do my own thing the problems started.

It's funny how history repeats itself, even when you think the lessons should be obvious. My DM could not stand her mother-in-law/my grandmother or my Dad's sister/my aunt. I have only met my aunt a handful of times, if that, and my grandmother a few more times. And here's where the flying monkey concept makes so much sense to me; for aslong I can remember DM has told us the same stories a number of times (including one were she was insulted by her Mother-in-law in a restaurant, DF did nothing), all stories about how she'd been badly treated by my grandmother and aunt and how they hate her.
Indeed the fact my own siblings have been quiet since we left heavily suggests that DM is doing the same again about me now. This is something I don't want to get into with them. My DSisters and DBro know me as well as she does, they also know what DM is like aswell as I do.

My DF still did nothing to defend his family, he just accepted it. DM would constantly compare me to DF's mother
"Your just like your Grandmother...", or "That's something your Grandmother would say...".
It was not until I was an adult I said to DM one day that by comparing me to my grandmother she was throwing the worst insult she could at me, because I know how much she dislikes her.
So we didn't know our cousins on DF's side and that's something that makes me feel sad. Because I think, given my similar nature to DF and apparently his family, I probably would have quite liked them.
I know all four of us believed that side of the family was bad as a result of DM's stories. I believe now that DM has been punishing me because, out of all of us, I am like DF's family.

I've been thinking about your feedback here for days now. It had never occurred to me that we would stay out of contact. I think I've just been worrying about going home again and getting caught up in the same old drama. Also the impact on our children. Mine are two of eight cousins. They're the eldest and are adored by the others.

Honestly, the lack of contact since being in the US has been liberating and there is no doubt that DH and I, and as a whole family, we're closer together. It's absolutely fantastic for us on that score.

I'm going to read Toxic Parents now and digest. Then I'm heading over to the Stately Homes thread (what a fab name).

You owe them nothing OP

Might be smart to move “home” some distance away from them. A loooooong distance. For “work” reasons. Will help keep you saner linger.

*longer