Couples counselling- how much to say

[Moneymachine]

DH and I started counselling. How open should I be about financial, emotional and physical abuse to the counsellor to make it?

I was hesitant to attend at first due to MN advice that counselling with an abuser won’t work, by my individual counsellor suggested to go open minded.

If I disclose any of that to a counsellor, is it confidential or do they have a duty of care if they are concerned?

I am not concerned about escalation of abuse if disclosed, I am trying to understand if couples counselling can work with a partial disclosure or do I need to be brutally honest ...

Has anyone been in this situation and can advise please?

• to the counsellor to make it worthwhile

that really wasn't ethical of your counsellor to suggest that (trainee counsellor) you need to be completely honest in counselling or else what is the point?

It took me a long time to come out and speak to family and a friend about our relationship. But I did it, and now I see counselling as giving DH a last chance before I file for a divorce

I feel a bit like going backwards now, I feel almost scared to share it all with a professional counsellor. For example, between the sessions, I have been pushed and bruised by DH who is oblivious and acts as nothing has happened.
Should this be a focus of our next session?

Counselling isn’t recommended with an abuser. What good could it do?
Your counsellor has given you rubbish advice. Have you been honest with them about your relationship? If you’re being abused stick to individual counselling and focus on a way of getting out.

It's a bad idea (I speak from experience)

The counsellor will be impartial which means that they try to find some middle ground between you and your husbands PoV. I suspect that you are already living life according to your husbands wishes already.

So all that can happen is that you will have to compromise and move even more towards your husbands opinion.

Sorry

A counsellor will only breach confidentiality if there is serious risk of harm to you or a third party.

They may also breach it for child protection reasons.

If the physical abuse has stopped...then it wont go any further. If the other abuse is ongoing...then a good counsellor would probably be questioning whether or not to continue with the sessions.

Counselling can make the abuse worse for the victim.

I just read your later post. If he's pushing you between sessions, then I personally would stop going.

He needs individual counselling for his abusive behaviour. Thats the only last chance I'd remotely consider.

Thanks for your views. He does not take any responsibilty or acknowledge that he is abusive. I hoped couples counselling would help with ‘realisation’ on his part and then I could push for him to have individual counselling . Or call it quits

It's not recommended to have relationship counselling with an abuser, because they weaponise it and twist things, and can manipulate the counsellor who is trying to balance your viewpoints. He's an emotional abuser already: it's basically teaching him new tricks and therapy-speak to use against you.

Like I once explained to my ex what gas-lighting was, and that he kept doing it to me. Next thing I knew, he was accusing me of it.

Yes to the learning therapy-speak. Mine very quickly started saying "I feel you ....

Op he won’t have a “ realisation “, he won’t come round to your way of thinking. There’s nothing in it for him so why would he?
Put your energy into leaving this ( aweful sounding) relationship.

Relate have stuff on the initial forms about abuse. I think decent counsellors would rather see you separately where there’s abuse because abusers just turn the counselling into a tool of abuse generally.

I don’t think you can force abusers to see themselves as abusers. My ex absolutely will never accept that he’s abusive. He thinks he’s amazing and I’m the problem. He also thinks he’s really attractive (he’s not). He exhibits unbelievable levels of denial and self-deception that allow him to behave dreadfully while maintaining an image of himself as utterly perfect. It’s remarkable really.

I did go to counselling with him (bad idea and doomed to failure). It was awful. Later in the relationship he said we should go back but with an overt threat that this time it would be about me and how terrible I am (in revenge for the fact that the counsellor was balanced, so there was some criticism of him). And I wasn’t allowed to discuss rape. I declined to go to counselling and he twisted that. But no counsellor would have seen us together. Or should have.

I worry you’ll come out of this situation in an even worse position. Abusers can be very manipulative and there are some terrible bad couples therapists around. An abusive man and an inept counsellor who believes that there’s always blame to be shared around is just waiting to be used as a pawn, or worse to collide in the abuse itself.

I’m saying this from personal experience. I knew my husband was not being a good man to me and hoped I could get him to open his eyes to how cruel he was being via counselling, and to help me direct the overwhelming amount of effort and love I was pouring into the relationship because it never seemed to be good enough. But I’m afraid it didn’t go like that.

He got her ‘on side’ very quickly, and had her joining with him to blame me for everything and basically, it intensified the abuse hugely. It also legitimizes it, so he grew in confidence and power.

I remember disclosing what I now know is physical abuse, although I didn’t realise it was at the time (as it was being hurt in subtler ways than the image I had in my mind of what physical abuse looked like... my bad!). Anyway, I remember the counsellor blaming me for the situation. And saying that he was right to react to me being so awful/demanding/whatever by becoming terrifyingly angry, and throwing a full shopping bag, containing tins, at my head. Apparently I shouldn’t have made him angry.

And then there was the sexual abuse. It took me years to say that, far longer than any other way he hurt me. Partly because it was such a head messing thing. Partly the shame. And partly the counsellor.

This next bit is gross, awful, sorry it might be too much, but it’s what happened to me and maybe you can find insight and comfort in it by not letting it happen to you x

She told me I had to just ‘give him sex’ because men need it and show love via sex, and I was with holding sex as a power game. She said I was manipulating him by sex and it was a disgusting thing I was doing. She said she hated women who did this to their men. She said I shouldn’t mind what I felt like during sex because He Needed It and if I loved him that’s all that mattered.

Not very err, modern opinions anyway, but horrifying in the context of me being raped multiple times a week by him. With physical damage. He ripped me and I bled. I cried and sobbed and tried to get away... he knew it... and didn’t give a shit.

So, imagine saying what she said to someone living in that hell... and what that did to him, the abuser, and me, the victim.

She even comforted him when he complained that I should act like I enjoyed it. She agreed with him! Apparently I should make him feel loved by pretending it didn’t hurt.

I was silenced and ashamed. I had spoken out and asked for help with something so private and so frightening. He crowed about it afterwards. Took the mickey out of me. And the abuse got worse. And I stayed for years more. Because I had been brain washed into believing it was definitely my fault and there was no better life out tgeee for me. Others maybe, but not for me. Only left him when his abuse started to harm my baby.

I know who my abuser was. That was my STBXH. But... what role did that awful couples counsellor woman have in my 9 years of hell? I’d say, quite a bit. For it being 9 years and not 5.... I’d say a lot.

Please please don’t risk your wellbeing by getting into a situation where someone could make your partner hurt you even worse. And make you less able to protect yourself.

Just wanting to say that my experience of couples counselling wasn't good either. Initially the counsellor called DH out on being controlling but then DH just learnt all the jargon and turned it back on me. The counsellor got caught in the middle and began to explain away DHs controlling as being an expression of anxiety!
At home DH began telling me that his feelings were as valid as mine and that I was controlling. There's just nowhere to go now. Whatever I say is flung back at me counsellor style, ie, repeating back what you just said. I think it's made the controlling worse.

Any counsellor who blames either client in MC is not worth seeing. Blame is making a judgement and it isn't ethical practice.

Even if either party is blatantly wrong, a counsellor should not be saying it, because it immediately makes the client feel ganged up on.

A friend once told me how the marriage counsellor he and his wife were seeing told his wife she was lucky he was still with her after what she'd done and that compared to her he was a saint.

I had to tell him that while he liked hearing that, the counsellor was absolutely wrong to do that. How could his wife feel safe with such judgment against her from the professional in the room.

Even if one is to blame....In the case of my friend, his wife had an affair, the counsellor isn't there to preach morality, they should help both parties understand how the other feels. They can come up with suggestions for effective communication and dealing with conflict in the relationship too, but blaming (while it may make the other party feel good) is not helpful for the marriage.

There are ways of getting a client to reflect on their actions, without blaming.

A fundamental part of a counsellors role is building a therapeutic relationship with the client, so if they come from a place of blame, it's not rocket science to see that this isn't going to happen and as a result, the therapy will not be effective.

Sadly, just like any other profession, there are bad counsellors out there.

WellThisIsShit that is absolutely horrific. I truly hope you made a formal complaint about the counsellor? It’s never too late (you can check if she’s still practicing on the register).

I often think couples therapy isn’t great for relationships involving abuse due to the nature of counselling itself; counsellors tend not to give direct advice or their own opinion, which in normal counselling works great but in couples dealing with abuse works terribly as the abuser never gets called out on the abuse (and if they do, if the counsellor steps out of their role, they feel victimised and stop engaging/blame the victim for making the counsellor think that way). It’s often about understanding your own role and what you can change in a situation whereas when you’re in an abusive relationship it makes things much worse trying to get the victim to figure out how they’re contributing to the abuse (!). You have two people in the room so you can’t just focus on one person’s behaviours, such as exploring the victim leaving, without the abuser interjecting or knowing their plans. And at the end of it all, you wind up with the abuser being handed a lot more ammo from what’s been said in the session and dealing with the aftermath for the entire week between appointments. Not to mention it’s a rare victim who feels empowered and unafraid enough to be truly honest.

If you’re in an abusive relationship you want to try and salvage I can only advise individual therapy for both of you. And only if the abuser genuinely realises and owns up to their behaviour and doesn’t try and downplay it. Even then i’d advise the abuser going for specialist counselling for perpetrators of abuse (it exists, there are organisations, Google it) as they need a specialist therapist with training in working with abusers to avoid colluding, justifying, normalising, and who is knowledgable enough to spot patterns and red flags and promote change while maintaining a therapeutic relationship. It’s specialist stuff and a regular counsellor will struggle not to focus purely on supporting the abuser and their mental wellbeing and will fall into agreeing with their reasons and saying stuff like ‘well I think most people would get angry in that situation’. Plus as others have said, it can quickly turn toxic when an abuser learns the lingo of therapy and starts using ‘I feel’ statements, knowing that they can then turn it around on the victim by saying ‘you’re the abusive one for telling me my feelings aren’t valid’.

Tread so carefully OP. Get your own counselling for victims of abuse. He needs counselling for perpetrators. But ONLY if he knows and admits and is aware he’s an abuser and legitimately makes observable efforts to change. If he’s not there then go for your own therapy and use it to make plans to leave.

Moneymachine

Sack this counsellor off immediately and do not see this person again. I would also report this person to their official counselling body if they are indeed registered because this person has no idea whatsoever about the dynamics of abuse. Their ethics are also questionable.

As the others have advised you, counselling with an abuser is never recommended because of the abuse he has and continues to mete out towards you. You are not safe to be in a joint counselling situation with this man because whilst you will co-operate with the process he will not and additionally will likely manipulate the counsellor into taking his side. Joint counselling if done is also used by the abuser as a further weapon against their chosen target here; in this case you.

Counselling for you ON YOUR OWN is necessary and besides which you need to talk in a calm and safe environment, you will not get either in a joint counselling session. He will use that against you and for his own ends.

Your time would be better spent planning your exit from this relationship altogether; there is nothing to rescue and or save here. Womens Aid and the Rights of Women organisations are well worth contacting if you have not spoken to them already.

Abuse as well moneymachine is not about communication or a lack thereof, its about power and control. This man wants absolute over you and in turn your children if you have them by him.

Thanks - I will try to set up a counselling for myself with another person asap

I have been planning an exit for a while, however I probably did put it on hold - waiting for validation of my decision through couples counselling..

Oh dear - I really do not think that couples counselling is the way to go. He is an abuser - the only way to go is out. Do not wait for validation of your decision - you do not need that - you are capable of recognising an abuser and taking the decision to leave, which is the only possible decision.

I have been planning an exit for a while, however I probably did put it on hold - waiting for validation of my decision through couples counselling..

The real problem is that you 'need' for him to acknowledge your feelings and experience. You think that if he does that then things can change or that you can leave him and he will 'understand'.

This is part of the head fuck that is abuse. It is because you have lost your boundaries as a result of abuse.

You do not need him to validate your feelings or experience. What you are doing is trying -yet again- to manage his (broken, damaged and evil) feelings for him. You are looking after his boundaries and not your own.

Your boundaries are actually very simple. They are 'I am deeply unhappy in this marriage. I am being abused in this marriage. This makes ME feel bad and I am going to leave because it is not working for ME. I am an adult woman and I do not need anyone else's permission or agreement or forgiveness'.

And I completely second what a pp said - you need to get rid of your counsellor. If you are still trying to appease your abuser then your counselling is not helping, quite apart from the appalling advice you have been given about couples counselling.

Are you looking for the counsellor to validate your feelings or your H?

The counsellor can empathise with you, they can even validate your feelings, but that doesn't mean your H will agree or understand. When you're dealing with an abuser, it changes a lot.