Disagreed with boyfriend over Stacey Dooley row

[SkisonW]

I don’t know if this is ridiculous or too extreme but it’s left me feeling really rubbish.

For context, I am non white and my boyfriend is white. I agree with David Lammy’s comments. My boyfriend thinks there are bigger issues than this for him to focus on, including bigger race issues. We had quite a big argument about it yesterday. He seems happy to just love on and forget about it whereas it’s left me deeply uncomfortable.

This is not the first time we’ve talked about race/racism and I’ve always found him quite insensitive about it. Even when we disagree, I don’t find him open or willing to hear or learn from my perspective. He says I offer no room for him to disagree and that I just want to browbeat him into my Side.

He has a very white left wing friendship group and yesterday I said I thought he lived in his own echo chamber of people in do gooding professions but who had little real understanding of issues and he’s taken massive offence to this understandably. But it’s how I feel.

Im starting to think we are just too far apart on issues that are close to me to ever come together.

But isn’t that his point? If he went, what would a photo of a black British MP holding a Ugandan child do to “promote voices from across the continent of Africa”?

And this was my point. His view changed across the day. In the morning interview, I think that was GMB, he was saying British celebs were fine. He was happy with lenny Henry going and his words were 'why send her, why not send black comedians'.

Over the day its changed. In that first interview he talked about the changes scope have made from their original name and said Comic Relief, shouldn't be doing the things it does and should be scrapped in favour of something else. I am sure many people who benefit from the funds, would suffer. He isn't really doing anything either way. Just complaining. And as I also said part of his issue in the morning was 'an attractive white woman' doing this. I very much doubt, he would have been so vocal if it was a white man. Which is why is said I see both point of view but cant really get on board with him. Everyone has different views. And if 2 people cant see the others, this causes issues.

Ops boyfriend sounds like a dick. But it also sounds like neither are willing to at least try and understand someone else point of view.

I think the CR and DL debate is really for other boards. The OP has posted on relationships about a row with her boyfriend. She essentially describes two people argue rather than listen, project and attribute behaviours onto one another and who don’t seem to share values.

Pick any topic that they don’t agree on and this will happen. Now some people thrive off this type of heated debate but she feels rubbish. Which is how most people feel after a row because they don’t solve anything. They cause anger, nobody listens or hears the others opinion, blame gets attributed and at some point someone will say something shitty.

Putting it quite simply you can’t argue with everyone who has a different opinion, perspective and upbringing. It will make you an angry unhappy person.

They both need to recognise the behaviour problems here and address them as individuals and as a couple if they want to stay together.

That sounds really upsetting and exhausting, OP. Being able to understand that "racism is bad" is about as basic as it gets and I would expect a LOT more from an intimate partner than simply a basic nod towards my humanity now and then.

Have my first LTB. And good luck to you, OP

I don’t think this is the place to re-run the David Lammy/ Comic Relief debate - it’s about OPs relationship.

Personally, I really don’t think race is the same as other “agree to disagree” issues when one of you is from a minority and the other isn’t. So, I don’t think the problem is with you not being able to have a nuanced debate - its with him not understanding his own privilege/ unconscious bias and it shouldn’t be your job to have to teach him about that. He might still disagree re this specific thing - but I think he should accept your viewpoint is coming from a different level of experience.

I’m Jewish and my DH isn’t and when we’re discussing anti-Semitism he will always say something along the lines of “I think x,y, z but I understand your viewpoint may be different” - it means a lot to me that he’s aware of his own unconscious biases and prepared to be challenged on them.

OP he sounds like hard work, that he won't take into account your lived experiences and perspectives over his ideals.

Comic Relief have been criticized for this type of thing for a long time, it's not new, so I'm surprised that as a lefty he hasn't heard about it before. The continued legacy of imperialism is a very valid subject for discussion.

And yes, he sounds very close to personally stereotyping you as an 'angry black woman'. As others have pointed out, racism is something everyone should be angry about!

The thing is he says he doesn’t agree with Lammy and that he does agree just that he thinks there are bigger issues. But I agree he is hard work and quite bullish. We’re on better terms about it now but it’s left me feeling very uncomfortable

Sorry that should say he doesn’t not agree with Lammy

Can someone explain why it is important to "accept someone else's point of view" when they haven't actually got any experience of the subject in question?

Would it be ok if he said that women who object to being wolf-whistled at need to calm down and take it as a compliment?

Maybe you've come to the point where you've had enough of being in a relationship with someone who is 'hard work and quite bullish'.

I know I'd hate it...

He just INTERPRETED her actions differently. YOu give her actions a negative interpretation and he gives them a positive interpretation.

If he's a good bf otherwise I think you should ''allow'' him the right to form his own interpretation of events that didn't involve either of you.

If he's not a good boyfriend otherwise then just walk.

Have you not had white partner's in the past OP? This is why I feel that I could never have a fulfilling relationship with a white person. When it comes to racism which has such a massive and profound impact on our lives, they just don't get it.

No I haven’t. And I never thought it would be an issue tbh. He’s just said to me that he is open and willing and that when he says I understand that it’s not enough for me. He seems to miss the point that it’s about being sensitive and circumspect with your opinions and views. He’s just said I don’t know what you want from me. And to be honest I don’t know either.

If he's not actually prepared to respect your feelings on a subject you have considerably more experience in and knowledge of - are you sure that you aren't a Trophy?

It sounds almost as though you might be there because it gives him the ability to be the The Expert on Racism within his group - I've endured somebody on a few occasions (childhood friend of a good friend) who never once mentioned the name of whatever girlfriend/wife he had at the time - but made a point of reminding us at least five times of their ethnicity.

With his now XW, he described how he'd explained to her that she'd missed out on one job because of not being good enough, rather than her description of the interviewer being surprised her surname didn't match her appearance, then asking her whether her husband was planning to retire soon. I'm sure his wishlist for a partner was 'Female. Foreign to give him a way of demonstrating what a Great Guy he was at the BBC (his employer)', more than somebody to love and respect.

@SkisonW - you are absolutely right and your boyfriend is wrong.

I'm white - and he's letting white fragility override seeing the woods for the trees. Seems more concerned with white feelings than the actual issue. David Lammy was bang on the money.

I'm white and my ex is non white. I was guilty of telling him his angry viewpoint on lots of things was wrong. Oh how I bitterly regret it. I will not be making the same mistake with our dc.
OP if you're tired of explaining and not being listened to and he is hard work and bullish then don't waste your energy. You may not know what you want but I suspect it's not having to fight your corner against your own DP.

It sounds like a man trying to explain feminism to Germaine greer to me. I would find this absolutely infuriating OP

Tbh you can break up with someone for any reason you like - I have my views on the issue (and my own experiences of dating fairly self consciously “woke” types ).

He doesn’t make you happy. For some reason I’m getting the vibe you’re youngish and just boyfriend/girlfriend with no big ties?

So finish things politely no drama. By next weekend you could have a couple new dates lined up?

Concentrate on the finances and the education and career and moving on and building a proper life rather than get bogged down in trying to make people see your point of view or “have the last word”? You’ve expressed yourself, he doesn’t agree. Tbh I think if you REALLY felt and knew he was “the one” you wouldn’t notice minor stuff?

You’ve said your piece, now time to move on.

Life is short and tbh getting bogged down in soul destroying political debates isn’t necessarily the best use of time. I don’t mean you shouldn’t be engaged with issues but it just seems quite a negative interaction all round??

Ps for the record I’m BME myself. Yes I KNOW that I get less interviews when I don’t use my anglicised nickname. Or how if I’m out with a white bloke it’s assumed I’m some sort of “bought woman”. People talk loudly about riots in my earshot. I had a retail job and was told I didn’t know what English food looked like. It hurts.

But although I do have anger, I’ve learned to pick my battles - I don’t mean I don’t feel engaging with their issues in a collective way, is important

But in my personal life, if I feel I’m beating my head against a brick wall I’ll just grin and move on. Plenty more friends and dates out there.

All opinions are not equal; having a bit of humility and shutting up and listening to lived experience is a Thing. If you don't feel like he has your back and you find that he invalidates you, then maybe he's not a good match for you. Your relationship should be a safe space not somewhere you need to battle to be heard.

I'd like to see these celebrities donating large chunks of their wealth to these causes, rather than living lavish lifestyles. Otherwise it all seems a bit hypocritical to me.

He's whitesplaining OP.

It sounds like you’re not compatible OP.

You don’t seem to like him or his friends (not a judgement - I’ve never met him or his friends and they could be pretty unlikeable!) and you ended up having a massive argument I’ve something where you didn’t really even disagree?

He thinks you don’t allow him an opinion and you think he’s hard work and bullish.

Life’s too short to spend it trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and make yourself miserable doing it.