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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Bf fell off the wagon

23 replies

Islands81 · 24/02/2019 00:38

Have been with my bf for 15 months. The first almost year was great, except for the fact that it was apparent that he had a drink problem. Never violent or nasty, but enough to impair his life in a lot of ways, and on occasions he’d get so blind drunk he’d end up injuring himself by falling over etc.

I knew this was not the kind of situation I wanted long term, so last October we had a serious discussion. I pointed out a few home truths, and then he went away and thought about it, and made the decision to stop drinking. I may have gently encouraged him in that direction but it was his own decision and he wanted to do it for himself.

That was over 4 months ago and he’s done so well, completely changed his lifestyle and social circle, and has been confronting lots of stuff that he’s been able to block out for lots of years through drinking. He’s done so well and I’ve been so proud of him.

So tonight he had a dinner party at his, hosted by himself and his female friend who owns the house he rents a room in. When we got there we were all offered a cocktail by his landlady, and he had one. He did have a small glass of champagne at new year and then didn’t drink for the rest of the night, so I thought ok, he’s having one tiny little cocktail, not the end of the world.

To cut a long story short, by 10.30 he was plastered. He’d done that sneakily because I’d been watching him. He tried to bullshit me about how much he’d had, but the more I questioned him, the more he would admit to. He was slurring his words, he couldn’t stand up without holding on to something, and he knocked his bowl of pudding all over the floor.

I was really upset, I really tried not to be as it was his friends, not mine. I didn’t make a scene but I couldn’t help feeling upset. There was no point in really talking to him because when he’s like that he can’t register what you’re saying. He got upset that I was upset, and took himself off to bed and I came home.

Not sure what to make of it all, I don’t really have a lot of experience of alcoholism so don’t know how to deal with this. I guess my question is how do I handle this going forward? I guess it’s not uncommon to slip up when dealing with a long term alcohol problem. I was driving tonight so was sober, but I’m not a saint, I do drink socially, but definitely don’t have any dependency issues like he does.

I really don’t know how to be with him tomorrow. I just feel upset and sad, rather than angry.

OP posts:
MumCatx2 · 24/02/2019 23:25

You've not been together long, life with an alcoholic will be one awful life. And being involved now will be hell, watching him, nagging, his resenting you for making him stop drinking, his anger at you for 'being better than him' etc etc. Leave now, save yourself the pain. If hes sober in a year and on an even keel, maybe. But you'd always be waiting for the relapse.

B3ck89 · 25/02/2019 00:02

In the nicest possible way... Run for the hills

My ex was an alcoholic, he became so dependant on it that he started to steal money from me, steal alcohol from me, and it got to the point I couldn’t have any in the house because he would drink it.
This is after he had 5 months off the stuff, time and time again he fell off the wagon.
It got to the point I realised, he was never going to change because he liked drinking.
Maybe I’m being a bit harsh because my ex was a controlling, manipulative, idiotic alcoholic (who also acted a total dick with every drink he had)

If you gave him the ultimatum you or the drink, it pushed him to chose you - but did he really want to give up the drink? If not, you will have a tough job keeping him off

I hope you work out what is best for you, don’t waste your time if he doesn’t want to change.

Ella2103 · 25/02/2019 00:32

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Graphista · 25/02/2019 03:28

I'm the daughter, granddaughter, niece, cousin and sister of addicts including alcoholics

If he's trying to quit cold turkey himself with no support he won't succeed. It's a physical and biochemical as well as psychological condition.

Personally I'd run for the hills. This is him with no major stress in his life and he can't cope - with life.

Relapses are incredibly common and even if/when they quit drinking they are still alcoholics and some have appalling behaviour - Google "dry drunk"

Imo addicts are often narcissists and dysfunctional in many ways.

I wouldn't even entertain staying with one they've already got the crappy genes from me!

It's your choice but you need to realise this will ALWAYS be an issue - even if he never has another drink his whole life. It's part of him.

Of the addicts in my family most have quit with different methods of support (medical, religious, aa/na etc) and they'll tell you themselves every day it's a new battle and 2 of them have been sober almost 40 years.

It's a HUGE illness to take on.

NotANotMan · 25/02/2019 03:40

If you choose to stay with him this will be your life. Either dealing with a disgusting drunk or waiting for the next slip.
Run.

Isleepinahedgefund · 25/02/2019 05:49

Another vote for getting the hell out of there.

It isn't as simple as him just giving up drinking. Alcoholism is a complex psychological condition as well as physical, and in my experience it's the psychological aspect that's the hardest. A previous poster above mentioned a "dry drunk" - honestly is rather deal with the drinking drink than the dry drunk. It's hurtful and confusing to be on the receiving end of, and you will never quite get your head around why simply quitting the drinking didn't solve the problem.

You cannot elicit the change you'd want. You cannot be his saviour.

ShatnersWig · 25/02/2019 08:10

Don't be foolish. End this now.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 25/02/2019 08:25

Do not waste any more of your life on this man. You will simply be dragged down further by him.

What has made you stay with a drunk and why did you choose him to be your boyfriend?. What are you getting out of this relationship now?. What is in this for you?.

I would certainly read up on codependency and see how much of this reflects your own behaviours in this relationship.

His primary relationship is with alcohol; its not with you and it has never been with you either. You can only save your own self here, you cannot rescue or save him.

Islands81 · 25/02/2019 19:55

He genuinely does want to change, he could see the damage alcohol was causing him (to be clear he was maybe drinking 3/4 pints a day on most days - enough to stop him achieving much but not enough to actually get drunk). He’s been very clear all along that giving up is something he wants to do for himself, and there’s been absolutely zero nagging necessary from me, he’s been quite clear about his path. Which is why what happened on Saturday came so out of left field, I am sad for him that he’s undone all his hard work, and also pissed off that I was there with his friends and his behaviour made me upset, I couldn’t stop being upset and feel like a bit of an idiot now as they’re not people I know that well yet (seen them out socially on occasions since we’ve been together but they’re very much his friends). His friends didn’t see what the big deal was, they were like ‘oh well, he’s just having a night off’ and couldn’t understand why I was so upset.

We had a good talk about it today. I said I’d wished he’d warned me that he was planning on drinking because I wouldn’t have gone. He said he hadn’t planned it, it just happened, which is more worrying really. He feels ashamed and stupid, I think he wanted to experiment to see if he could just have a few drinks socially now, but it’s clear to him that he can’t.

Generally speaking, he’s the kindest, most considerate man I’ve ever known. He’s always looking out for little things he can do to make my life nicer/easier. He was like that even when he was drinking every day. But like I said to him today, what happened at the weekend had made me take a step back, and question whether there’s a long term future.

OP posts:
Islands81 · 25/02/2019 19:58

And I agree he needs some outside help, he did try to get counselling before Christmas, and had an initial assessment, but they still haven’t got back to him about ongoing sessions, despite him chasing them regularly. It’s not specialist counselling for alcoholism though, so not sure if that’s going to help? He seems quite against the idea of going to a group such as AA, based on friends’ experiences I think.

OP posts:
Zwischenwasser · 25/02/2019 20:05

YOU CANT FIX HIM

step,away.

Ladylouanne · 25/02/2019 20:12

OP, sorry to be blunt, but you’re not listening to the advice you are being given. It sounds like you’re already in denial.

I understand that - I was the same for many unhappy and stressful years with my alcoholic husband. The alcoholism killed him in the end.

Leave now while it’s still relatively early days - you’ve only years of stress and uncertainty ahead otherwise.

Islands81 · 25/02/2019 20:20

I am listening, I wouldn’t say I’m in denial as much as just completely inexperienced in dealing with alcoholism. Is it just a done deal that there’s no hope for him? I guess some people do manage to turn their lives around?

OP posts:
Ladylouanne · 25/02/2019 20:25

The thing is, even if he goes ‘turn things around’, you will forever be wondering if he’ll fall off the wagon again. Alcoholism is never ‘cured’. Do you need that worry in your life?

Whatisthisfuckery · 25/02/2019 20:30

OP from someone who was married to an alcoholic for 11 years I can tell you that this problem will never go away. No matter how many times they quit, and how sincere they are in their intentions, the booze is always there, and it’ll always be there in the background. I can also tell you that no matter what you do, you can’t control it for them and no matter what you say or do, the drink will always be a bigger pull.

Honestly my advice to you would be to run for the hills, but I can see you don’t want to do that, and I can understand that. Is there a drug and alcohol service in your area? Where I live there’s an excelent one where you can just turn up and register and they do one to one sessions and group sessions. Also he should go to his GP who will be in a good position to tell him what’s available near by.

OP if your DP is serious about quitting he’s going to need help. I’ve seen so many times my ex refusing AA, refusing to see the GP and going ‘yeah yeah yeah, I don’t need that,’ or ‘I’m not going there, it’s full of

another20 · 25/02/2019 20:41

I doubt he has been dry all of this time. Does he spend time with these friends without you?

Graphista · 25/02/2019 23:45

"honestly is rather deal with the drinking drink than the dry drunk." Ain't that the truth! Horrific dealing with dry drunks.

They're angry, bitter and resentful and take it out on everyone around them never taking responsibility for their own actions is my experience.

"He genuinely does want to change," if that were true he'd have sought help without your persuasion.

"to be clear he was maybe drinking 3/4 pints a day on most days - enough to stop him achieving much but not enough to actually get drunk" extremely unlikely he was only drinking what you knew about or when you knew about. Addicts are master con artists especially when it comes to hiding their addiction. Unless you are literally on their shoulder 24/7 you cannot know. It's one reason why many rehab centres have comprehensive cctv coverage and regular searches. You'd be shocked the lengths addicts will go to.

"He’s been very clear all along that giving up is something he wants to do for himself" so why did it take you saying something? what help has he asked for and used? Aa? Dr? Therapy? Religion? Exercise? Medication?

"His friends didn’t see what the big deal was, they were like ‘oh well, he’s just having a night off’ and couldn’t understand why I was so upset." Highly likely they're also addicts - that's why addicts are often advised to completely change their hobbies, social groups etc addicts hang out together in an effort to normalise abnormal behaviour or even to minimise their own as compared to a "worse" addict "well I don't drink as much as my friend X so therefore I'm not really an addict" "all my friends do it so it must be normal" without acknowledging they've CHOSEN to be friends with fellow addicts.

"Generally speaking, he’s the kindest, most considerate man I’ve ever known" nobody is all bad. My violent abusive alcoholic father is also generous, intelligent, funny, thoughtful and extremely talented in his trade. Doesn't make him any less an abusive alcoholic.

"but they still haven’t got back to him about ongoing sessions" even with the cuts that's extremely unlikely.

I suspect he's anti AA because they advocate total abstinence as the only true way to heal and I agree with them. Not just because you can't trust an addict, but because there's strong evidence ESPECIALLY with substance addiction that the brain and brain chemistry is permanently changed as a result and so "just one drink" never stays "just one drink"

You need to learn the "3 c's"

You didn't CAUSE it

You cannot CONTROL it

You cannot CURE it

The ONLY person that can do that is him, and only when he TRULY wants to. I strongly recommend you contact al anon and similar and read up on addiction from a loved ones perspective.

I must admit I like Russell brand on this, whatever else you say about the guy he doesn't pull his punches on this, he doesn't really hold with effectively making addicts cross addicted eg to methadone it's just substituting one addiction for another. He advocates abstinence focused recovery and thinks we should be taking a medical rather than criminal approach to addicts and I agree.

Not because addicts can't be shitty people who do shitty things when in the grip of the addiction but because the current approach of demonising addicts clearly isn't working. It's filling prisons with addicts who are repeat offending continually, it's filling the country and the world with the victims of addicts but it's not solving the problem.

If your man was serious he'd be contacting anyone and everyone including AA, his GP, his family etc for help.

The addicts I'm close to THAT is when I have noticed that they MEANT it when they wanted to quit - when they were willing to try anything and everything to stop and kept asking for help till they got it and were willing to do things like taking Antabuse and cut off their enabling/addict friends. It's a very obvious change in their attitude. The ones that were like this are the ones that got clean and sober and have so far stayed that way. They also accepted they would always be addicts and KEPT doing whatever worked for them, whether that be AA or church, or therapy or taking antabuse or top up hypnotherapy...

The ones that did it half hearted and kept making excuses, relapsed regularly and the ones who later got sorted admit they were like this at points too and it was because they weren't ready to quit.

Even if he does quit he will ALWAYS be an addict. That can be problematic in many ways, it's not just alcohol, it makes him more vulnerable to becoming addicted to certain meds too. There's ALWAYS that risk.

I've seen people relapse 5, 10 even over 25 years later from getting sober.

I'm guessing you're both quite young too and this person could potentially be fathering your children? You need to consider the genetic factor too, if you had children with him they are more vulnerable than others to becoming addicts too. I've been resisting it my whole life, it's why I've never even tried a cigarette let alone street drugs, I tolerate analgesics and anaesthesia FAR too well, as in they have little effect on me and I have to take stronger doses than others, I've had to explain to anaesthetists and I've had anaesthetists who didn't listen get caught out by my almost coming round.

I have other mh issues which are very similar in nature in my opinion (and that's starting to be recognised by scientists) and for which I've yet to find a treatment that works. I very occasionally need to take things like diazepam and they feel lovely but I can absolutely see how my body and mind could very easily become addicted to them, not least because again for any effect I need a higher dose. So i only take them if I really need to.

Excess alcohol consumption can also affect sperm quality and quantity, it was previously thought this was recoverable but they're now starting to realise that quantity can improve with quitting but not always quality.

springydaff · 26/02/2019 00:07

You say you don't know much about alcoholism and I wonder why not when you're in a relationship with an alcoholic.

Alcoholism, addiction, is HUGE. Really, it's vast. It creates chaos and pain and destroys wherever it touches. The accounts from pp are not an exaggeration.

You're still in the shallows of the pain but it becomes gut-wrenching pain that squeezes the life out of you. I think you have no idea the extent of it.

If you're serious about taking on this godawful life then go to Al-anon.

GreyTS · 26/02/2019 21:46

Run, please, for your sake and for the sake of everyone and everything you love because there is no curing this. My alcoholic ex is dead, at 35, I wasted 4 years in my 20's on this man, he was the nicest, kindest, most gentle and generous man but I am so glad that he is dead. How awful is that, how awful was life with an addict that I feel like that. Whatever you do don't have children with this man, all that lies ahead of you with him is chaos, even in periods of sobriety you will be on edge waiting for them to slip, appalling way to live.

another20 · 28/02/2019 13:00

How are doing Islands81?

ChristmasTigger · 01/03/2019 22:40

If he serious about changing then AA could be the way forward - if he wants to stop for himself and not to please you.

He can go along a meeting, sit and have a cup of tea and just listen. No-one will expect him to introduce himself or explain why he is there - he can just listen to other people’s stories and see what he thinks. If he tries a couple of meetings, at least he will have an informed opinion about AA. A lot of people seem to have strong opinions about what happens in AA.. without ever having set foot in a meeting! (Stories from friends don’t really cut it)

Islands81 · 04/03/2019 10:50

Hi, I’m ok thanks.

I showed my bf this thread a week or so ago, I thought it might be a bit of a wake up call for him. We had a good chat and he could see how much this affects me, and he agreed that getting some help was a good idea. He hasn’t had anything to drink since that Saturday night and he is firmly back on the wagon.

He has a counselling session booked in for this week, and he contacted Turning Point but they said he basically wasn’t bad enough for them to help him as he’s only drank once in nearly 5 months. They suggested trying AA and said it’s worth trying a few different groups to find one he gets on with. He’s joined a Facebook support group called club soda which he is finding helpful, he says it’s his mumsnet.

I think that Saturday night was him seeing if he could go back to just having a few drinks socially, but he now knows he can’t and it’s all or nothing. He doesn’t seem to have any kind of moderation mechanism.

Everything seems to have calmed down, we don’t live together and there’s no danger of that happening, so even when he was drinking it didn’t affect me massively. He was never nasty or abusive when drunk, the worst that would happen was that he’d be a bit annoying and sanctimonious. And yes occasionally he’d get plastered and end up falling over and hurting himself. It’s more for himself that I’d like him to sort himself out, he’s a very intelligent, capable person and having four pints a day was getting in the way of him achieving a lot. And it would be hard for our relationship to develop any further while he’s alcohol dependant, I wouldn’t want it to.

So...just rolling with it at the moment, and seeing what happens. In every other way he is wonderful - kind, thoughtful, funny, caring. Our lives are still completely separate so I’m not really in a vulnerable position I don’t feel.

OP posts:
pineapplebryanbrown · 04/03/2019 15:12

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