Has couples counselling helped? Especially shorter relationships.

[Leivapala]

Hello. Some experiences are much appreciated regarding couples counseling, especially if the relationship is rather short (1.5 years). Has it helped? I wrote down my issues also, in case someone is interested, but I'm sure you can speak about your experiences without reading these.

Shorter story:
I have been with my boyfriend for 1 and a half year and I'm really on the fence. I want out due some issues (mostly him being very insecure, which creates communication issues and smothering; but also me being insecure which on the opposite creates distance and the need to get away; I feel there are also communication issues, we have difficulties understanding each other). He has always denied his issues (anxiety, possible depression), but when I told him I want to break up, he enlightened and really wants to help himself and our relationship. He has even made an appointment to individual counselor. I want to break free and find someone better, but I am afraid I will do it only because of my own insecurities (e.g. I'm a strong woman and I can survive alone, I do not need anyone - but then cry alone at home, hoping someone would hold me and love me, but I am unable to go and tell anyone that or when the love shows I shy away) and there might not be anyone better (haven't found so far..). Then again, if my boyfriend gets past his insecurities, maybe he would not appreciate me anymore.. Anyway, I'm currently figuring it won't hurt if I tried once more? But I also need outside help, I guess. I was wondering whether couples counseling could be a good idea? Have you had experience with it? Has it helped?

In case someone is interested, the longer story:
I have never had a proper long relationship in my life - rather been a loner, difficult to make friends, I love being outgoing and funny, but I have had very few friendships during my life where I can do it. Been living alone since moving out parent's house 10 years ago (I'm 29 now). I guess I have always had some kind of social anxiety, it improved a lot after counsel ling when I was 23-34. I have difficulties making decisions, need all kind of support etc. While I really want to be independent etc.. I consider my self rather average beautiful and average smart, work in a rather average place, have uni degree etc. Just been rather isolated all my life.
So, previously I had a few crushes who broke my heart (kind of long-distance crushes, very unattainable due to different reasons); I tried some speed-dating things, no one wanted to meet up later. I had severe head aches and a mild depression, due to which I gained a lot of weight and I was very down. Then I tried online dating, but nothing happened. Then I had my counseling etc, I lost my weight, found a hobby, felt like like a new person. But still could not find love. I tried events, partying etc. But it is difficult to put so much effort in going solo to all kinds of events, as some level of anxiety still is in me. So I tried Tinder for 1.5-2 years or so. I felt the best and most beautiful version of myself then. I had very many matches, talked to a lot of guys, had some dates. However, there were only 2-3 guys who I dated (others were not keen on going out if I asked or would just fade out or whatever), around 1-3 months, one left me, the other were left by myself - total incompatibility. But I had hard time getting over these, because I felt bad that now that finally someone likes me, I just give up. But these were really bad guys, really! So, then I found the guy with whom I am currently. And I'm totally on fence. I like him! I really do! I appreciate so many things about him. But the appreciation got faded away when his huge insecurities came out, his massive clingyness. On the one hand he is the most sweet, caring guy who would drop anything to come and help me, but on the other hand I got suffocated because he has always been dumped by previous girlfriends and he always thought I would dump him too, so he was insecure and was rather passive-agressive when I wanted to be alone or do things alone - he wanted to have me by his side all the time. he also sees world as a rather negative place. So I finally decided I want out! Well, not that I want, but I must because there is nothing else I can do, I felt so suffocated. Then he realised what a total idiot he has been, he was able to acknowledge all of his issues, reason all his actions, he was devastated. He booked a counsellor to himself to finally deal with his issues, he has heard out all my complaints and is willing to put up with all of this!
Now I have such a hard decision to make. I dream that the grass is greener outside, that surely there is someone better, more suitable out there for me. But if I haven't found him til now, how should I later? I have never stood out of masses and I have experience with online dating - it is probably more difficult when I am older. I cannot meet anyone through my job nor my hobby. The entire friends circle I have - all are in relationships and I have asked whether there are any single guys in their circles, the answer is no.
I am not even sure what I want! I am afraid that I try to see all the bad, because it is difficult for me to actually commit, to take the love, really believe that it is possible that someone loves you. Because I have always been alone! When I described my "dream relationship" to my friend, she said that it is rather unrealistic. According to this, I would need someone working abroad and being my best friend and visiting me twice per month.
I want the warmth and the love and the commitment, but at the same time it frightens me so much, that I want to fight back! What if the same thing happens in the next relationship and the next.. BUT if he works on his issues and gets himself sorted, perhaps he discovers that the grass is greener for him somewhere else...

I have now a choice - I take the devil that I know and fix it. Deal with my issues and let him deal with his. And be open to accept the love that he has to offer, bearing in mind that I cannot be free as a bird then. And taking the risk that maybe he does not appreciate me the same after all of this (he needed nurturing, I offered it).
Or I take the unknown devil - I throw away all the good things I appreciate about him (including the will to fight!) and hope there is something better out there, and be prepared that there are always some kind of issues in relationships and I do not know what these are until I see them. Or I might end up alone altogether. the latter did not frighten me before, but I frightens me now.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up, what sort of an example did your parents show you?. Loving your own self for a change would be a good thing for you to do. Would you consider restarting counselling for your social anxiety again; where did all this really start with you?. You are really in no position to date and or being in a relationship till you start doing all the above properly and loving your own self in the process.

I would not at all consider couples counselling at all here; you and he need to be apart as of right now. He has more red flags about him than a communist party meeting. His overall insecurity and clinginess smacks of wanting to control you and controlling behaviour in that context is abusive. Interesting too that he only decided to seek counselling when he noticed that you were understandably pulling away from him, this is also straight out of the abusers 101 handbook. He speaking poorly of ex girlfriends is also a red flag here.

Better to be on your own than to be so badly accompanied as you are now.

Re your choices you need another option, love your own self for a change and throw this one back permanently. Look at your own life and make changes, what about changing your job for instance?. Dealing properly with your own fears and isolation here.

This man only offers misery here, not love. Love is not about control. He does not need any nurturing from you, that makes you sound like his mother and why did you offer that at all?. You can only resolve your own issues, you certainly cannot fix his and why would you at all want to do that to yourself?. Being a rescuer and or a saviour in a relationship never works out well. You were not put on this earth to rescue and or save anyone from their own selves; those issues are his to sort out and not yours to carry or otherwise feel responsible for.

I would also read "Women who love too much" by Robin Norwood and look at the website called Baggage Reclaim.
What you are also describing here in your other supposed option (all this about throwing away all the good bits) is the sunken costs fallacy and that basically enables people to keep on making poor relationship decisions. I would take another path instead of either option you have suggested for your own self.

There is indeed better out there for you. As I stated, better to be alone than to be badly accompanied.

But how do I know for sure what he is really about? He tells me that he has been active, met friends, not being so clingy in previous relationships etc. I see a lot of things in his behaviour which were similar to me when I was in depression - I procrastinated, finished talking to my friends, saw everything negatively, I was actually being clingy to my crushes (but they were online crushes, who I met only once or twice), I have know idea how clingy I would have been in-face. He has never shown any other abusive characteristics apart from being clingy. He has also always accepted all the activities which I have done without him, just rather pessimistic way. If I really wanted to do something, I had the possibility, just it was accompanied with guilt. can't really put my finger on it. It's not extreme, it is just there - the clingy behaviour and my guilt. If he really can accept that he needs a life of his own and he is willing to rebuild it and if I can accept that I do not have to feel guilty - I guess it could work out?

Oh, regarding growing up. My parents are divorced, she left my father, then took another man in her life and is rather miserable (she was in her 40s with 3 children living in a small place, so she was happy that there was someone who wanted him and she appreciated the financial support). well, she is not exactly miserable, as they just now live together and both doing their own thing, she is cheerful and happy person; the man is rather stupid, knows nothing about love and support etc. My mother is more of an example for me that a woman can survive alone and does not need a man, BUT it is a a bit sad life when you do not have that intimate love. My father remarried shorty after, has a son with his new wife. They live quiet life. father is a bit unhappy that his new wife is not as outgoing etc, but they seem very happy together still.

Oh and my boyfriend's parents also divorced. Father left mother, mother stayed alone, could not move on, father had a new wife, who passed away. Father and mother both confessed to each other that they still love each other after 20 years of separation, father regrets the divorse, they are no happily together again for 2 years.

... so she was happy that there was someone who wanted him HER and she appreciated the financial support...

How much of this from him towards you is due to depression as opposed to him being anyway a complete arse?. Many abusive men cite depression and or anxiety as excuses to further abuse their chosen target with. Abusive men also hate women, all of them. My guess is that his ex partners were all treated like you now are. He probably also wanted them to be by his side all the time.

Depression anyway is not a get out of jail card for being able to treat someone else, in this case you, so very badly here.

Where did all this guilt come from, where did all that start with you really?. Guilt really is a useless emotion here.

Work on your own self more through therapy. Consider changing your job too and develop new interests outside the ones you already have. He is not your project or fixer upper to improve, he does not need nuturing and he was never yours to rescue and or save.

Attila I'm not sure how you jumped immediately to abuse He could be abusive but there isn't enough information to be able to say so with the kind of certainty in your posts.

OP it sounds to me as if you both need individual counselling. Perhaps you could have a break in the relationship while you do and consider getting back together if and when you are both feeling stronger. I'm not sure whether couple's counselling would be helpful tbh - it can be very helpful if you have a strong foundation to work with (individually and as a couple) but it doesn't sound like you do. Sorry.

Well there are no other signs of abuse, I have read a lot about it. I also thoutgh there might be.. I do not know. The only sign is that he is not happy if I want to do things alone, he has improved with it. He manages to control his reactions better in familiar situations, but worse in first-time situations. He does not hold crudge, he does not critise me, he does not blame me or call me names etc. He is always caring and supportive. There are topics he is not supportive the way I would like (work related), but I see that regarding other aspects he is. I have even told him I have no mood to go meet friends - in this case he has told me that I must go, because I have waited it so long etc. He has always brought me flowers, helped me in any way he can etc. I do not see pattern of being nice only after certain situations. He has been nice if I am in good mood, when I am in bad mood etc.

Why I am considering couples counselling is because I need to practice my communication, but it is difficult managing it my own. I think we have patterns which could be perhaps resolved with outside help. I think I need someone outside to help me understand him better etc.

What do you have to lose by trying couples counselling? You both have struggled with relationships & other issues in the past. You could go and learn how to better communicate & share together & be happy together or you could go & decide not to be together. Unless you go you won't know. & perhaps if you don't try it & walk away you will always wonder what if? & if you are going to split up if you don't go then it doesn't sound like you have anything to lose by trying other than the cost of it, but you will learn something whatever happens so even that isn't wasted.

re an earlier comment the OP made:-

"On the one hand he is the most sweet, caring guy who would drop anything to come and help me, but on the other hand I got suffocated because he has always been dumped by previous girlfriends and he always thought I would dump him too, so he was insecure and was rather passive-agressive when I wanted to be alone or do things alone - he wanted to have me by his side all the time".

That to me anotheremma smacks of control from him. Clinginess is also an unattractive trait apart from anything else. That is why I wrote as I did, there are some red flags here re this man.

How is he not supportive to you re work?.

OP - I would have counselling for your own self and without him present for the time being particularly if he is seeing a counsellor anyway. Your own childhood was sadly not ideal and there is stuff there that should be unpicked too.

I am used to being supported mostly by my mother and she knows which questions to ask and I have trained her to argue with my statements so that I can come to a conclusion. Some of my friends are like this, too. So this is the kind of support I want - to challenge my statements and ask the right kind of questions. He, on the other hand, is not good at asking questions. And he does not like arguing. I have just recently figured it out that he just do not know what I exactly need. He tends to support by giving advice, giving his own opinion. But offends a bit if his advice is not suitable for me. He just does not know my way of digesting the advice - firstly I argue back, but later I think about it. regarding my work, I asked him yesterday, and he said that he just feels that it is an area he knows nothing about (we work in totally different fields), and he feels he just does not know what kind of advice to give me. And as he is afraid to ask stupid questions, he just does not know what to do.

The not asking questions has also always been on my mind. I ask a lot of questions and belive that if the other one is interested, the other also asks questions. he has always said to me that he beleives that if a person wants to tell something, the person just tells. He does not feel comfortable asking questions, especially if they might seem silly or are too personal. I have trouble beleiving it - I guess it is a thing worth talking out during counselling. He is convinced that the fear of asking questions is due to his general social anxiety. He has improved, though. I have told him so many times how important this is to me, and I can see improvements. For example, he even did not ask how my day went - he just stormed in, talking about his. Now, he asks me this.
So I really really want to belive that his issues are treatable to some extent, that these are really related to his anxiety, rather than being just abusive arse. But I acknoweldge also that I have difficulties expressing my exact needs and different viewpoints to him. I am so used to being around the persons who have known me for 10 years or more, so I figure that another persons should understand me right away the same way my close friends and mother understands. It is difficult for me to accept that he is different and that these differences could work together, not against each other.

The more you write the more I feel sorry for him. You've trained your mother on how to ask you questions? Seriously. You sound like you've spent your whole life thinking about yourself, seriously get a hobby, go for a walk, think about something other than you for once, you were not put on this earth to just think about what you need emotionally all the time. That is not the purpose of life.
Go & have some fun & find new things to think about.

At the same time I cherish so much his good traits - just his caring acts, cooking (I hate cooking, he loves it), being so tolerant and helpful and supportive of my headaches, back pains, migraines etc, I feel so safe and taken care of with him when wandering around or travelling, he is so gentleman in so many aspects, he also does household chores, always asks how he can help. He is good and caring in bed and we have similar level of sex drive (I consider mine rather low, but this seems to suit him, so at least this is something I do not need to worry about). I have rather bad memory regarding various topics, names, movies and all kinds of general cultural staff which makes it hard for me to properly engage in conversations about these topics and I feel ashamed sometimes - he on the other hand has so many knowledge and memory and he does not shame me for not remembering even the names of the most popular persons on earth for example. These seem perhaps not so important points, but something that I really value. I think it is hard to find these things in one person and then expect that there are all other good things also.

I may have worded it wrongly. The point is that the support I need is related to challenging my statements and it might be difficult for other people. I was a challenge for my mother not to offend when I refused all her suggestions, but I have explained to her that this is how I operate - I refuse these, then think about these and then accept something among these. She now understand me and does not get offended - she knows I mean no harm by being the way I am. This is what I mean by "training" - i have explained to her that she does a good job and should not be offended. This is the part that I have not made clear to my boyfriend.

I was a challenge for my mother not to offend - IT was a challenge..

AND I acknoweledge now that this something I have to work on - my boyfriend operates differentley and I need to understand it and accept it. This is what I'm also hoping from the counselling.

But thank you all so much! Writing here, I can now see that I MYSELF have so many issues... Perhaps individual counselling to myself really would be better idea.

You need to just go out & get a life. Stop over thinking every single detail of yourself & your life. Get a hobby. Join the gym, do some volunteering, go and see live music. Go for walks, go & have some fun. Maybe get some cbt so that when you start self analysing yourself so much you stop it & put another thought in your head. One day you will be really really old, maybe sat in a care home & all you will have is memories of your life, go & make some good memories, you don't want to look back & all you have is how much you thought about yourself & what you need.

I have a hobby, which involves great company and live performances (belly dancing). I have great friends. I have job that I like. I was very happy and cheerful. Until he came and I felt suffocated etc. Now I understand that I just dreamed all the time of having a wonderful relationship, but when I finally have, I do not know how to make it work and cannot get used to not being free as a bird. I wanted to ditch that and "get a life again", but now, writing here, I have realised that the some issues would rise again in another relationship. So yes, I will work on this one and do my best to still keep the outside life that I have! Thank you so much for helping me to realise it!

If you've got a life that you love & it's just your relationship sending you into this turmoil then it doesn't sound like the right relationship for you. When you've been on your own for a long time & are scared you won't meet anyone you end up settling for something that isn't right. That or you just really struggle with letting people in. So it's back to my first comment, you've got nothing to lose by giving relationship counselling a try. Or have a break from him & see how you feel after some time apart.
No relationship is perfect though, we can't expect people to be 100% what we need, or be totally attuned to how we feel (like asking the right questions about work). From what I've read about couples therapy it can either help you stay together or show you you are not right for each other. So I still think there is nothing to lose by giving it a go.

Thanks! I went ahead and booked an appointment indeed, especially as he is keen to try it.

Good luck with it. I hope it goes well for you.x