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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Difficult situation contact with kids' father - advice please!

22 replies

AdviceForSister · 04/02/2019 13:09

Posting on behalf of my sister.

As ever, long and very difficult history. Hopefully the below sums up most points.

  • Sister now separated from father of kids (12 and 6). He was emotionally and financially very abusive, isolating and controlling. He still is when he can get contact directly with my sister (or via the children).
  • Very long and painful process to get to a point where he sees children every other weekend (now communicating via third party, in the main; he really does take every opportunity to manipulate my sister and contact leaves her distressed).
  • He has slid out of all legal processes, so none of this is in law.
  • He pays small amounts of maintenance when he chooses to.

So, this is the issue we need help with (currently - there have been so many others):
It's become clear that he has been saying bad things about my sister (again) while he's had the kids. Saying she's a bad mother, all she does is shout, that she will "die alone", etc. When they told her this, they were clearly very scared, as he's said that if they tell her then she'll "never let them see him again". So they're also being told to keep secrets, and are distressed by this. Their behaviour deteriorates markedly when they've been at their dads.

If my sister rings social services, will they do anything? Should she stop contact, even though the kids are so keen to see their dad?
She is confused and belittled (yet again) and doesn't know where to turn.

TIA for any pointers.

OP posts:
MrsJonesAndMe · 04/02/2019 13:21

I think she needs to get legal advice. Under the circumstances, I might let the dad know the children will be missing the next contact arrangement due to feeling unwell to give her a chance to work out how to proceed.

AdviceForSister · 04/02/2019 13:25

Thank you @MrsJonesAndMe

Would calling social services for advice get nowhere, do you think?

OP posts:
ChrisjenAvasarala · 04/02/2019 13:28

Ringing social services wont just result in the dad being looked at, they'll be looking at the entire lives of the children. Is your sister ready to open herself up to that?

She should stop contact, using illness ad an excuse to givet herself a month. She needs to call a solicitor today and get in ASAP. Explain everything and follow the advice. Start getting all the accusations in writing from a solicitor and then he can communicate back through his own. Take the legal route.

And she needs to call CMS.

She needs to start doing everything officially.

mytieisascarf · 04/02/2019 13:30

If your sister is concerned about the safety or well being of her children then she should contact ss. But I agree with previous poster that in cases like this contact needs to be a more formal agreement and she needs to absolutely formalise maintenance.

AdviceForSister · 04/02/2019 13:41

Hi @ChrisjenAvasarala and @mytieisascarf. Thank you both for the advice.

In the past, he's even managed to make it near impossible to go via solicitors ("I will only communicate directly", and then the kids get upset and my sister gives in). But I agree it's more important for it to be official, even if he does then refuse to see them because it's not all under his control....

Thank you again.

OP posts:
AnotherEmma · 04/02/2019 13:49

Agree with PPs, she needs legal advice.

In her position I would find a solicitor with DVA experience and I would ask about the possibility of allowing him supervised contact only (supervised by a third party, not her obviously). If he doesn't engage with the legal process he doesn't get contact - tough shit.

She could call the NSPCC helpline and ask their advice about the negative impact on the children. I think that would be a better first step than calling social services - although NSPCC May advise her to cal them and they may be able to offer some support.

Has she spoken to the school? Asked if they can offer any kind of support?

She definitely needs some kind of official record of how their well-being is damaged by time with him.

Oh and definitely go via CMS for child maintenance, that's a no brainer.

Has she had any counselling or specialist suppport (eg women's aid, Freedom Programme)? It sounds as if she is still giving in to him to some extent - understandable but she needs to work on that.

She could block him on everything and keep just one channel of communication open for contact about the children (eg a separate email account or a separate phone/SIM - but I would do messages and not calls)

AdviceForSister · 04/02/2019 13:55

Thanks so much, @AnotherEmma.

A recent problem that's raised its head is him giving them a tablet so that "they can contact him any time", and then him basically using it to spy on her house when she is at work (and they are being looked after by grandparents). They love it, so she is loath to take it away as he then says to them that she's trying to stop them contacting him. Is this something anyone is familiar with.

OP posts:
AnotherEmma · 04/02/2019 14:01

She needs to report that to the police.

AnotherEmma · 04/02/2019 14:02

Unfortunately he's done a real number on her, hasn't he?
She has turned into such a doormat that she knows he is spying but still hasn't taken the tablet away Sad

averythinline · 04/02/2019 14:03

I know it will be hard for her but she needs to start taking control of her situation...be a parent and establishing her boundaries with her ex...

has she done teh freedom programme ? it may help her see why she keeps appeasing him....she has started the good work by leavuing him but she needs to keep going now

for example the children are too young to communicate with him directly via a tablet....it needs to be either used under supervision or just turned off when they get home...

if shes that bothered she could get them seperate tablets at home (small kindle fires maybe)- what will happen if it breaks ...

CMS for maintenance

and yes they miss contact if he pulls that crap about her... who is teh 3rd party that is facilllatating contact? they should be having a word with him...
she should keep a diary and also contact womans aid/rights of women.....I know its hard but she needs to stick yp for her childen that is a horrible thing to hear

AdviceForSister · 04/02/2019 14:03

Really, would they listen @AnotherEmma? He uses it in the form of "Take me on a tour of the house, kids!", so on the surface (unless you know him/the history) it doesn't sound so bad...

OP posts:
AnotherEmma · 04/02/2019 14:04

Oh come on.
She can take the tablet away.
It's called being a parent and having boundaries.

AnotherEmma · 04/02/2019 14:04

Has she reported any of the abuse to anyone?

AdviceForSister · 04/02/2019 14:08

Thanks again, @AnotherEmma. When they were together/breaking up, some stuff was reported to police as he used to come to the house and kick the door open. Not in the last couple of years, I think.

@averythinline, she knows of the Freedom program, but keeps going back to thinking he's not really abusive, I think. It's alarming.

I'll see if I can step in now, armed with your advice. Thank you again Flowers

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 04/02/2019 14:13

Does the bad behaviour manifest at school? She can start with school safeguarding lead . schools may have counsellor or advice for getting family therapy for her and dc.
You can also buy her th3 book how to talk so kids will listen... it has some ideas on actually getting to what the kids are saying with their behaviour

AdviceForSister · 04/02/2019 14:15

@cestlavielife, good ideas re the school. I'll see what I can do...

OP posts:
AnotherEmma · 04/02/2019 14:15

Has she read "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft?

AnotherEmma · 04/02/2019 14:16

It must be very hard for you to watch her and the children go through all this Flowers

AdviceForSister · 04/02/2019 14:18

I might get this thread taken down after not too long, as I'm a bit scared of DSis being recognised. But thank you again for all this advice. It makes a lot of sense and has really helped me to know how I can try to support...

OP posts:
AdviceForSister · 04/02/2019 14:19

@AnotherEmma - thank you. I do find it really upsetting and it's sweet of you to say that! Nothing to what it all is for her, of course....

OP posts:
AdviceForSister · 04/02/2019 14:20

I've written down that book, @AnotherEmma, and will look it up for her...

OP posts:
eve34 · 04/02/2019 14:22

I can't add anymore. I would ask school to provide the children with some Elsa support. And if they feel there are safe guarding issues social services will take the information more seriously.

Although in my experience they still considered it a domestic issue that I needed to handle.

Get legal advice. If she feels that contact is not positive for the children she can stop it. And let him go through the legal route.

Cms for maintenance.

There is a child law advice line that can give you some advice also.

Good that she has your support. It is hard to break old habits when you have been dominated by someone for so long.

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