What is reasonable support for relatives with kids

[SingleAuntie]

Off the bat let me say I dont have DCs - this is an personal choice that I have often faced criticism for in the past, but I just think children require a commitment and sacrafice that my job and other responsibilities wont allow. I do love kids thou and have been babysitting for friends and family for over 20 years - I always like to help, as I can often see the toll of parenthood on my parent-friends faces.

With that in mind I am asking some advice; two of my siblings have had children recently and dont share my views and I feel are expecting an unreasonable amount of support and help from myself and our DM. Now DM has a number of health problems that have resulted in her giving up work (which she loved), but my siblings seem to see this as a free pass for on call childcare. And tbh I think she has tried to help as much as possible, doing full days and overnights when she can, but her health just wont hold up to it anymore (to the point breathing has become an issue putting her and DCs at risk). I have been trying to get in front of this and volunteer to do more when I can, and even pointing out that DM is not able for the amount of physical activity that goes into looking after young children. But with working full time and caring for both DM and other dependent family members who are disabled its a struggle - there are only so many hours in the day and they often go to DM when I am not available and guilt her into doing more. DM wants to be a part of her GCs lives, but it feels as if its an all or nothing situation - if she cant babysit there is no point as my siblings would not be getting rid of their children so they dont want that. This has resulted in a massive family fallout as according to them we should be willing to mind DCs when needed and to save money on child care while they are at work. It is worth noting I have taken time off work to mind DCs, done midnight medical runs, bought a mountain of clothes and toys for them - all on the understanding that I was helping until they got sorted in their new parenthood life, however this seems to have set a benchmark to meet and exceed going forward.

So my question is this - what would you consider reasonable in terms of family support? One sibling has pointed out that friends familys mind their GCs at least one overnight a week, however I think this is a family specific thing. I am happy to go to their house to mind DCs, but they want rid of them from the property. Also the ILs of both siblings are not forthcoming in offering help from their side so it is putting all the pressure on us. Know these discussions can get heated, but trying to put out a fire here before family disbands forever.

My mom n sister's will not ever do regular childcare. My mom has my baby as hoc eg a date night a month or when he's been ill to allow me to sleep for a few hours.
I don't resent them as he's my responsibility

This does sound like they are putting on your DM. Your siblings perhaps need to remember that they chose to have the children.. I know childcare is expensive and its hard balancing work childcare commitments. I think asking someone to have your children once a week overnight is way too much.

For the record my parents looked after my son as a baby 2 days then 1.5 days a week while i worked i was single parent at the time and they lived round the corner. Rest of the time he was at nursery or with me. Now hes at school they pick him up once a week. Babysit occasionally when we go out. I’m aware of not asking too much but he is only and much longed for grandchild so they are always keen. Plus 2 of them, much harder when just your DM.

How old are the kids OP?

MIL has DS for a few hours at ours maybe once a month at most. We go out and leave them here as the toys are here.
DM has looked after him twice for the length of funerals.
DS has had him once at hers (delivered and collected by me) for another appt.
He's 3.5 years.

Onoh DM has my niece something like 3 days a week but essentially any day time hours my sister needs her to fo work pending hospital appts.

IMO you shouldnt have kids on the EXPECTATION that other people will pick up the care of them you dont want to do yourself

Your siblings need to wind back their expectations or pay for babysitters.

DCs are 3 months and 18months. And just to clarify, I also mind the older one for appts, going out with friends, work stuff. I think we need to be consistant and set boundaries, but just not sure if they will see it as reasonable if their friends families seem to be giving more.

Well unless you said "yo ssis, get pregnant and I'll do a time share on your kid" thry need to get over themselves.

SleepingStandingUp you have summed up how I feel right now lol timesharing kids!! I might quote that

Your siblings are taking the mickey. Your DM didn’t agree to any of that before the kids were born. She’s not employed by them. She doesn’t have to do anything. It’s nice to help out if she can and as circumstances allowed but they shouldn’t be expecting it and I don’t have any friends at all who have their kids gone for one overnight a week. In fact, I live in an area where most people we know don’t have nearby family and they have to employ babysitters for nights out. That is the norm amongst my peers. Family do help out sometimes but it tends to be a school holiday or sickness emergency type cover.

I would never expect any sort of family support at all, beyond whatever anyone wants to do for their own enjoyment. We’ve had both grandmas watch our older one, either for a few hours in the evening or overnight, but it’s because they don’t see either of them often and they wanted to come spend time with them. This has happened maybe 10 times in 6 years. I would never ask a sibling though (our siblings don’t have children and are out enjoying life). I also probably wouldn’t ask them to watch them both together (they are 6 and 1). Neither is really spry enough to cope with two. If we want childfree time now, we’d have to get a babysitter or nanny who could do overnights, which we haven’t as it’s quite expensive.

My exW relies on her DSis quite a bit for ad hoc childcare (but reciprocates). I had my Dad help out one day a week covering off 2 hours after school when my DC were younger (but school age). That lasted for perhaps six months.

Otherwise I am sure my parents would help out if asked (but I haven’t needed to). I wouldn’t dream on imposing as much childcare on my family as your DSis seems to expect. YANBU to push back.

Reasonable is accepting what you offer with appreciation...

It's upsetting when able grandparents won't help at all and yet do for others but if they are not able it's thought shit!

I am a DGM and I help out a day a week. I've been asked to do more, but said no, for lots of the reasons mentioned above but I do sometimes relent and have both grandchildren (5 and 1) here for a night. I also do ad hoc days/cover when my DD is knackered. It's hard work, and physically tiring especially when the children are very young.

One thing struck me, a bit like when my DDs were smaller, the chorus when I said no to something was 'everyone else's parents let them/do this' It wasn't true then, and I doubt it is true for your siblings! And everyone else's parents might, but I have my own life and I don't need guidance from them thanks!!

Hmm. Well my sister never babysat for my son. My parents never babysat until he was 3 and never overnight until he was around 7 or 8 perhaps. I managed to get my parents to babysit once every six months or so, perhaps a tiny bit more frequently as he reached around 12.
When they babysit I’m always so grateful, bringing them goodies to say thank you.

So, I don’t think it should be expected of grand parents and I think any babysitting offer should be received with gratitude and not entitlement.

Your SiL and bro are taking the piss. You have children for yourself not to share with everyone else.

Even if your mum had agreed to do childcare before they had given birth she is still allowed to change that due to health. I wouldn't want to leave my children with someone whose health is affected by running after them.

They need a good long chat about how not every family can do the same as others and they shouldn't expect it. I would start making plans with your mother so you can both turn down their demands of babysitting.

My parents have my twins a few times a month during the day for a few hours by their own request to see them. Most of the time I stay as well but will have the odd afternoon off to catch up with things. They have only had them three times overnight and my boys are just turned 2.
My in laws aren't around so I have never been able to ask them.

Imho, they are plainly using you and your mum in good old fashioned “give an inch-take a mile” style.

Do you have difficulty in saying “no” to people? Does your mum? If they threaten to withhold the children because you decline their demands, then let them withhold all they want (cutting off their nose to spite their face). That is emotional extortion; do not participate.

They have a tantrum to get their way: because you are not a mum, just know that the best way to deal with a tantrum is to give them space to play it out but you do not participate or respond or give in. So, imho, you are looking at it wrongly in thinking it is your responsibility to manage the imminent firestorm if they don’t get their way. You can not control their behavior.

but they want rid of them from the property
I find this rather vile. It would put me in the mind frame to want to be there for the dear children because they are going to need your emotional support in the future with parents that have that abhorrent attitude.

Boundaries. No apologies necessary.
Why on earth would you miss work for their kids so they won’t miss work? Don’t do that again. That is their problem, not yours.

You can be “on call” for emergencies as long as it is not at the expense of your paycheck/vacation leave. They probably want you to use your vacation leave so they don’t have to use theirs? No, just no.

They’re taking the piss and you know it. It doesn’t matter what their friends are doing, everyone has different circumstances and it’s entirely up to you how much you do. They’re guilt tripping you and you don’t want to be in a fixed routine with them relying on you. Just do what you’re happy with, don’t let them force you into any corners or you’ll regret it.

I feel a bit guilty but I've never looked after my dns. I don't think sibling would be happy either.

I think occasionally I should offer but they have lots of friends & have never particularly included family in their childcare.

This is bonkers. They are very lucky. Those kids are still in the really high-needs phase too.

In my peer group it's unusual to have family support and we've all done nursery and babysitters, although we help each other out.

My mum lives in the same city and has had DC maybe 3 times at our house (DC is well into the school years), but mum has health problems and I would only ask her in a real emergency.

In-laws live a 2 hour drive away and have provided childcare at our house on occasion, e.g. a week in the summer hols so we could work as we didn't have enough leave and overnight in our house while we were away twice.

SIL had DC once when we visited an attraction in her hometown.

They don't know they're born...

My dm minded gc if their regular paid minder was sick and someone was needed at a moments notice. She also took them maybe one weekend a year if couple had a wedding. Otger than that visits to grandma were to see her and let her engage with the dc. My dm was young and healthy in those days and not working outside the home.
Your family are too demanding. I cannot believe they would dream of asking a sick gm to babysit.
I am a gm now. I work full time. I would mind gc at weekends occasionally but absolutely no pressure from parents and if l'm busy a simple sorry l'm not free is all thats needed.
Tgere should be no pressure involved. In actual fact maybe they need to step up more to mind their ill mother.

As you already know, their expectations are unfair and unreasonable. The question is, what can you do about it?

If possible, I think you need to try to distinguish between routine helping out to make their lives easier/spend time with your nieces/nephews, and genuine emergency cover, which I do understand people expecting of their families. The latter I think you should do if you can; the former you should do if you can (easily, not taking time off work etc) and you want to. Depending on your relationship, this may be difficult?

My own experience (if you're gathering these to get some perspectives on what is reasonable): we live in the same town as my in-laws. They do no regular childcare for us and mostly see the grandchildren very much on their terms (they like spending time with them, but they've been clear they're not up for the regular 'gruntwork' of childcare). They babysit maybe once every six weeks or so, have them overnight perhaps once a year. In an emergency, they will step up (e.g. basically put their own lives on hold for three days and moved in when one of my babies was in hospital for 3 days and the other was at home). I think all of this is reasonable (though if I'm honest when the kids were younger I would have been very glad of some regular help!).

SIL/BIL live around the corner and have kids too. We help each other out in all sorts of minor and occasionally major ways, with no obligation. I have built up a network of friends that I usually call on before family now, though that has taken time.