Can anyone support me through this? Narcissistic mum now terminally ill with cancer etc, and I’m struggling with my feelings.

[Fairylea]

This is complicated. Daily Fail can fuck off.

My mum has been unwell for some time (lifelong chronic health issues) and this week has been diagnosed with advanced cancer which has spread around her body.

I am an only child and my mum is alone - no living relatives except for a distant brother living overseas, no husband, no partner etc. So I am in a very difficult situation.

My mum and I have a very strained relationship. When I was little she was an alcoholic and was diagnosed with schizophrenia and as a result was sectioned many times- she has not been sectioned since I was little however and just relies on antidepressants since. Of course, I have great sympathy for anyone with mental health issues but as a child - especially with the alcoholism - this was very difficult to cope with. My dad and her used to physically fight a lot and I was mostly cared for by my Gran and Grandad.

I was always quite frightened of my mum growing up. She was controlling and unpredictable. As a child she would shout at me a lot and I learnt to become a carer to her really. This continued throughout my life - I lived with her until I was 29, through my first marriage and having my now late teenage dd.

When my first marriage broke down things really fell apart between us as I finally woke up and realised how controlling she was. Little things like she told me my now ex dh was “brave” for leaving me (he cheated on me and left me for an ex he’d found on Facebook) and would turn off the WiFi when she went to bed as she thought I was on it too long chatting to people etc (I was 29 at this point!)

Long story short, we each purchased houses (I had been a high earner and we had owned half each, my Gran had also left me some inheritance) and I then met my now dh. She was absolutely vile to him for reasons I don’t understand at all and she would tell him he was a bastard that had “taken her best friend away from her” (me). And so on. For a long time I went very low contact with her, I had another child in those few years, she has never really spent much time with him and I would always be there for contact - ie once a week for a couple of hours.

About 7 years have passed since all this. I have tried - as has my dh- to forget all her initial terrible rage etc and put it down to her being stressed / mental health etc. Despite this I still feel very angry with her and I know other people would not have continued contact. Mum has never and will never apologise for anything she has said or done wrong as she doesn’t believe she’s done anything wrong. When she has these intense aggressive episodes she says she can’t remember them - I’m not sure if it’s drinking or mental health or whether her saying she can’t remember anything is her way of getting out of saying sorry. God knows.

So now she has been diagnosed with advanced cancer and I am feeling very conflicted. On the one hand I am very sorry for her, as I would feel so for anyone and of course she is my mum.
On the other hand I am struggling because when I tell anyone they fall over themselves to say how sorry they are and how awful it must be as she’s my mum etc and I don’t really feel that way.

I feel a sense of duty and a sense of responsibility but I’m not sure how else I feel. To add to my difficulties I have my own disabilities and I am struggling with the way all the (long distance) hospital visits etc are taking it out of me. I don’t want to say anything bad though or do anything bad and regret it in years to come either. I’m so conflicted.

Has anyone gone through something like this or can relate?

I feel almost guilty, like I’m not allowed to feel the way I do really. What’s making it worse is she is very good at being nice to other people and puts on a good front and they just see her as this sweet old lady, but she has this dark flip side. To give some indication of how bad she can be she was recently blacklisted by the ambulance service for being abusive and they refused to come out to her....! So I do know I’m not making it up but that’s how I’m made to feel at times.

Thank you to anyone who has got this far....!

I would do as your brother has done here and completely distance yourself both mentally and physically from her going forward. You cannot help anyone who does not want to be helped and your feelings towards her, whilst understandable, are totally misplaced when it comes to her. You think like this because you are a good and kind person, she is clearly not. She may well be your mother but she was not a good parent to you when you were growing up (an understatement) and it really is not possible to have any sort of relationship with someone so disordered. Its not your fault she is like this and you did not make her that way. She will never be the mother you perhaps still want her to be as well, are you still seeking her approval here. You have every right and indeed should express how you feel here. Deal with your own ongoing fear, obligation and guilt through finding a therapist and be kind to your own self here.

What are your own boundaries like with regards to your mother, I doubt very much you have much if any sense of boundaries here re her mainly because she actively encouraged you not to have any. I also doubt very much that she would actually care much if at all if you were to die suddenly.

How are you aware that she is apparently seriously ill now; I would not merely take her word for it in the event she has told you this herself. Have any medical personnel talked to you directly about your mother's current condition?. Many toxic people do use ill health to exert and exercise further control.

Would also suggest you read and post on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages. Their counsel could help you as well.

Thank you. Your words have given me a lot of strength. I am floundering a lot between feeling sorry for her and feeling very angry.

It’s actually her own brother I mentioned, not mine. I’m an only child. But now I can see that he has distanced himself - which I didn’t actually see before. He lives overseas and despite having a lot of money hasn’t been to visit her for many years (about 20).

I am struggling with my teenage dd too. She has some good memories of my mum being a Gran to her when she was little - which is why in hindsight I wish now I had cut contact - and is now feeling angry with me I think that I am feeling angry! What a mess! She doesn’t really understand the background and has never seen my mum in one of her aggressive rages.

I am 100% certain of the prognosis as I was in the meeting when the oncologist told us (mum and me). I had taken her to the hospital as she had been very unwell and the ambulance had refused to take her. I live close to her, ten mins away in fact, but the hospital is a long way from us both. I have been going up to the hospital to visit her about 3 times a week so I am in the loop, her next of kin etc.

I don’t even know how to start making boundaries. I thought by living on my own I was doing that but this has made me realise I have a long way to go.

I've just gone through this. I could have written your post. My mums funeral is this week. I nursed her through advanced cancer. She stayed at home until the last few days and she was so grateful. In the last three months it was like she had an epiphany and although I found it so very hard to forgive her, I did. She never ever told me she loved me until those last months and I shall treasure that to my grave. She had a hard death and suffered so much. I will never regret what I did, it does not negate all the awful things she did, but I am free of it now with no regrets. This isn't judgemental, you need to do what is right for you, no one has travelled your awful journey. Try and speak to Macmillan. They are there for you too. Take care x

Thank you @Chimpfield I’m so sorry to hear about you mum. It’s great she told you she loved you before she died. I am lucky that my mum has always said she loves me but with that “love” comes a lot of control and manipulation.

It’s very difficult because you always think - in relationships where things are so strained - that one day maybe you’ll put it all to bed so to speak and she will be the mum I always wanted, but I don’t think that’s possible and that’s hard to come to terms with.

I am also scared of what is to come.. I nursed my Gran through bowel cancer at home with me and saw everything she went through. It was very traumatic for me to watch, as well as obviously for her to go through. Although my mum won’t be at home with me this time round I’m feeling very anxious about the whole thing and just very frightened. I will contact McMillan I think.

You have 2 children who need you physically and emotionally.

You don’t have to take on any of the physical care of your DM. Call on the professionals/NHS/services to do this - and prioritise conserving your own compromised physical health and finite emotional reserves so that you can get through what will be a tough time regardless and that you can be there for your DCs and not preoccupied with your DM.

You really are in FOG. Walk out of that as it is no way to exist. Fear of her end stage disease (like you experienced with your DGM) - you need to be clear that you will not do this in your own home - you don’t need to see this and neither do your own children. Obligation - you don’t have this - only obligation is to look after your OWN physical and mental health and that of your DCs. Guilt - waste of headspace.

Just decide that you will be really hands off on this and be proud that you are putting down this boundary decisively. Then invest in therapy to unpick all of this - but you are already along this road by your obvious insights. You are in for a tough time - I doubt she will be a compliant patient or morph into a model parent - so anticipate this and emotionally protect yourself.

Do get some specialist counselling. There's such a lot to wade through here, so many themes.

I had specialist counselling for what the counsellor called a "complex bereavement" - very mixed and powerful feelings after someone close, who had caused me great harm, died.

I do think you need professional support to navigate this very complex terrain. I'm so sorry you're facing this and the whole difficult history.

I would say though: trust the process. Let it unfold in its own way and trust you will have the wisdom to know how to handle it as it unfolds.

I agree with pp about getting some counselling for yourself to help you work out same boundaries and support you in sticking to them.

Thank you for the replies.

I have had some time to think about things and I’ve realised I have to emotionally detach myself otherwise I am not going to be able to cope. I was making myself physically unwell by making myself so stressed. Your replies gave me a bit of a shake and I now realise that my main responsibility is with my two children, who need me, so I am going to have to detach myself from my mum and focus on being here for them. It’s difficult for me because I realise my whole life I have been propping up my mother and living my life essentially with her as the main focus / wheel, which clearly I know is unhealthy and I need to start to unpick this.

They have told my mum she has possibly a few weeks to a few months left and they are sending her home. She will have nurses going in twice a day for now and a palliative care team - she is on a lot of pain relief. I am going to the hospital to bring her home tomorrow and from there I think I will just see how things go, at least I am not doing the “caring”.

I think I am just going to have to take each day as it comes. It’s the thinking ahead or thinking about the past that is emotionally crippling me.

I have been in a very similar situation, except I have a dad and brother. My brother was the golden child and he left home quite early so he didn't see a lot of what happened.

My mother was also alcoholic with mental health issues so I know about the unpredictability. One day you are encouraged to do something, the next you are an evil brat for doing the same.

Decide what is best for you

DD needs to decide what is best for her, and I realise that is very different for a 12 year old to a 19 year old.

You need to decide what, if anything, you are going to say and do and make your peace with that.

No one can tell you how you feel.

I decided not to bring up the past, mainly for my father, and it did take me time to come to terms with that.

Look after yourself. Support your daughter but accept you have different experiences and memories.

When she died I felt nothing, absolutely nothing.

Fairylea

Fairylea if you can find time, try to take some exercise ( you may already do so). Grieving and stress activates the body's fight or flight system and when you exercise the body thinks it's 'flown'. I do sympathise. I have very difficult parents.

Thank you for the replies. I am slowly working through my feelings one day at a time. Unfortunately exercise is something I can’t really do because the health condition I have (Addisons amongst other things) means any stress (emotional / physical / exercise related) can make me extremely unwell, because of the stress of the current situation I am already on the edge of an Adrenal crisis all the time (which can be fatal if untreated) so I am trying to manage this with keeping myself calm / unstressed and taking more steroid medication. Exercise would mean I used up cortisol which I am trying to maintain. It’s a completely frustrating situation.

Mum is now asking me what things I want of hers when she goes. I don’t know. I don’t want to have the whole “emotional going through things” she seems to want us to have, and I feel bad for that but I can’t help but feel it’s just to make her feel better. That sounds awful of me. She wants to give some of her things to her neighbours and I have asked her not to give them anything of my Grans (who I was close to) but now I feel like I’ve given her some sort of weird power over me because she is almost holding it over me. I don’t understand why she would consider giving the neighbours - who she has only recently become close to - important things of my childhood era / Grans when they won’t mean anything to them anyway! It’s all so frustrating and annoying.

I also feel that when she dies I just want a very simple cremation and to have the ashes home with me to decide what to do with them. It seems utterly ridiculous to have a whole service given the circumstances and the fact that there would only be about 5 people there, but I feel like if I do this then her neighbours are going to judge me very harshly for that and for not giving them the chance to attend anything. I know this shouldn’t matter but she lives in a very tiny, in each other’s pockets type place and I feel like every time I go back to the house to sort things out they are going to be judging me. I just don’t honestly think I want to or could manage a funeral service, mum has always said she doesn’t mind what I do with her (non religious) and given our relationship it would feel incredibly hypocritical and false.

It’s so difficult. My emotions are all over the place really. We went to see her yesterday and I swing between feeling sorry for her that she’s going through this and being upset by the reality that is advanced stage cancer and at the same time feeling intense rage and sadness about my relationship with her.

Sorry to waffle on. I think I need to use this thread just to talk about my feelings and reflect on things.

You are not waffling on, stop being so bloody English here!!!

Sod what other people or her neighbours think; its also at times like this that you find out who your friends really are. Those people are probably nice but easily manipulated and used too and like your own self are also used as a source of narcissistic supply. Your children and you are the number 1 priority now; not your mother. She has not fundamentally altered since your own childhood, she is still a narcissist.

She is messing you about re the possessions as well. Would also state that verbal answers from her to who receives what in terms of any effects are left will not carry any weight; does your mother have a will in place here?.

I would actually invest your energies in your children going forward
and therapy for your own self if you have not already started it, there is an awful lot to unpick here.

Don’t worry bout being judged. They are ignorant of the facts and can think what they want. If they ask about a service, just say it’s going to be a small family affair. If they ask about sending flowers , tell them to donate to cancer research in her name.

Try to not have any attachment to the possessions. If you already feel like she will hold it over your head you need to drop that rope. If you want something, see if you can take it now so you have it. If she refuses, just go ok. If she threatens to not give it to you, shrug your shoulders and say ok.

Sending all my love to you. I am NC and my dh and I have talked about what the fall out will be when this time comes. I have no idea how I will handle it.

Sending you a hug, OP. I had similar - I was NC with my narcissist mother for three years, up to her death from bowel cancer.
It was maybe easier for me as I lived over 400 miles away and was widowed with toddlers and a full time job, so I had a cast iron excuse for not visiting.
When she died, I didn’t go to the funeral. I didn’t grieve for her at all, but what I DID grieve was the loss of the loving mother I never had, and now never would.
You owe your mother nothing. Please don’t feel any misplaced guilt or sense of obligation. Focus on being a much better mum to your own kids than yours was to you.
I used mine as a role model for how NOT to parent.
You will get through this, with some support, comfort and counselling. And you may find a huge sense of relief when you are at last free of this toxic woman draining the joy from your life.

Hi op I can feel your anguish in your posts.

My Dm too was schizophrenic and as a result I had a pretty difficult childhood. She died 10 years ago now pretty suddenly from a stroke.
I’ve done a lot of soul searching over the last 4 years instigated by acrimonious divorce following DH affair which turned my life upside down.

I too suffer with MH mainly depression but have recently been reading about another forms of MH and believe my childhood may have had a greater impact on Me than I first thought. I think my own DF has narcisstic traits something I’ve been exploring and coming to terms with in the years since my DM died and since my marriage broke down. The upshot of which I feel my lif I thought I had/ was living was perhaps not quite reality.

What I’m trying to say is all your feelings will be justified even the ones you feel you shouldn’t be having. You will be grieving for the mother you never had, you will be grieving for the mother you are going to lose, maybe this causes conflict as you possibly don’t want to have feelings for someone’s who treated you badly, you will possibly be angry that it’s cancer and feelings for your gran will be triggered again and mixed up in all of this. No wonder you don’t know where your at. On top of this I think you are judging yourself for the way you feel/ don’t feel in the light of the sympathy you are getting from others. No one has walked in your shoes no one can feel exactly as you do except you and therefore everything you feel is valid - there is no right or wrong - they are your feelings whether they be I feel sad, I feel angry, I feel mixed up, I feel neglected as a child, I don’t feel anything - maybe right them all down and see if you can work out why you feel as you do and then tell yourself it ok to feel like this -

In relation to MH I have read a lot of posts on here where people feel that “abuse” cannot be excused even when a person is mentally ill. I do not believe this is the case - I’m talking about verbal abuse here. You have mentioned that your mother “forgot” a lot of her behaviour and from my experience it’s almost like the abuse comes from a separate part of the Brian - not the fully conscious part of the brain. I have been surprised by recollections of things I have said - to the point I’m asking did I really say that - I think the repercussions of MH come from a really hurt place - I’m not sure If this makes any sense.

Your Dd will have had a different relationship with your DM - her memories do not make yours any less valid even though hers are different to yours. ANd she will need her memories just like you have your memories of your gran.

WHat is so sad in all this is that with more understanding, more support people with MH can learn to live with their demons and hopefully keep them under control in a healthy way. YOUR DM was very ill she obviously did not have the right support she will have done the best she was able to and she told you she loved you.

AS I said earlier the last four years of my life have been hell - I’ve not been the mother that I would like to have been - x has caused me untold problems and this has impacted on my own MH - I’ve been angry I’ve been crying - the last week I’ve not managed to get out of bed much - I’ve not been able to do things for my kids that I would’ve liked to but I love them very very much and the battle I’m currently dealing with has always been about them.

If nothing else I tell them I love them - I want them to have no doubt about this - you are going through a really hard time - be kind to yourself and do whatever feels right for you -

Hi op. I almost could’ve written your post - swap the schizophrenia for bipolar and the cancer for early onset dementia (and a load of other health issues) and you could be describing my own history with my mum. I’m also an only child and all of her family are abroad. Oh, and I have a newborn to add into the mix! The only difference is that she really likes my DH, possibly more than me...
I don’t really have anything to add to the excellent advice given above, just wanted to let you know you’re not the only one dealing with hugely conflicting feelings. I had some therapy last year and it has helped to lessen the guilt. My therapist was good at pointing out just how shit my childhood has been with her (I tend to minimise it) and that I’m pretty justified in feeling the way I do as an adult.

I've had a very similar experience, OP. My mother died a few years ago from cancer, and she was narcissistic; we had a very difficult relationship.

Two things that were invaluable:

First, having some very strong boundaries, which included not being there at her death. It sounds harsh, but I realised that I needed to remove myself from her environs as much as possible. Remember: you don't owe her anything. A sense of obligation is so deeply ingrained in the meaning of 'family' that we will often subjugate what is good for us so that we fall into line. You don't need to do that.

Second, therapy. It's a really good start that you can feel angry and admit it. Anger is healthy in your circumstances. Why should you feel angry, after all? Therapy will help to work through everything that comes up, and has been a god-send to me - particularly when it feels like nothing makes sense, and the feelings are overwhelming, and chaotic, and defy any attempt to reason with them.

All the very best

Why shouldn't you feel angry, I mean. (There you go: a Freudian slip. Testament to the compulsion so many of us feel to conform!!!)

@Fairylea how are you?
this all sounds so agonizing for you
I have some experience of a very difficult mother although we are long-term no contact and I will not be caring for her

Hi all, I’m sorry I didn’t come back to this thread.

My mum passed away two weeks ago. I was there with her an hour before she died, I found that upsetting as she looked so awful, her bowel ruptured and she became unconscious and they put her on a morphine driver. I walked into the room to see her lying there, mouth hanging open, making noises. I became incredibly upset and walked straight out. I had to calm myself down and was then able to walk in again. I told her I loved her. I wasn’t sure what else to say and I was worried I might regret not saying it so I did. I wasn’t sure how long she was going to go on for, so I left her and by then time I had got home I got a phone call to say she had died.

Oddly enough when I got home I was near hysterical from seeing her like that, but I think it was more the shock and horror of seeing someone so near to death- rather than emotional upset related to “mum”.

Since then I haven’t cried at all, and I don’t actually feel that upset. Am I supposed to?! I really don’t know how I’m supposed to feel, there isn’t a rule book is there.

All I could feel is relief. Sounds horrible but relief that I don’t have to care for her anymore, relief that she isn’t in pain anymore from a human point of view, relief that she can’t ever upset me again.

Everyone has been sending me cards and flowers, and whilst I do appreciate the sentiment and kindness, I have actually binned all of them (no one will know or does know I’ve done this) as I just don’t want to sit around looking at them. I want to be able to use this to start again, to have some of the life back I’ve never been able to have.

I have a counselling session booked for next week as I am aware that my feelings are quite jumbled at this stage and it’s going to take quite a while to unpick things.

One of my darkest thoughts is that she’s never going to leave me alone and is going to haunt me. I know how ridiculous that sounds. The night she died I was terrified to go to sleep incase I saw her in my room or by my bed. It made me realise how terrified I was of her. Sad isn’t it.

So that’s my little update. Thanks for listening.

You’re allowed to feel the way you do, and please don’t ever think that you have to feel any other way. You don’t have to justify yourself any more. You’re safe.

I’m so sorry that you’re going through this x

Fairylea, there is no "supposed" way to feel so don't feel guilty about that, when my dad died I was upset but forgave him for his abuse but then after I found out what he did to someone else and I'm still finding out about him, I'm glad he is dead and would have confronted him and if the shock would've killed him I wouldn't feel bad at all.. This and more is for the stately home visit thread but my point being you couldn't help what happened and despite what you've been through you were there for her until the end. It says more about you and that says a lot. You are a compassionate person who more than deserves to have enjoyment and satisfaction out of life.
Move on now and don't bother visiting the past you'll not be going back there.
Stay strong💪

My mother died three years ago. I had the same complicated experience of grief/not grief, the sheer horror of people expecting me to feel emotions that I did not have and then the feeling of euphoria that I was no longer beholden to her, followed by guilt about that - none of which I could speak to anyone about.

I think counselling is a really good idea. I'd also look into CRUSE counselling - they have such experience and I found it a great relief to know that my own feelings were not strange at all to someone who had experience of the aftermath of death.

When my awful mother died I felt nothing but relief - and still, now. I figured I did all the grieving years ago while she was alive for the mother that she wasn't. It was years of a long and painful death of our relationship and I was done a long time before her actual death. I gained more than I lost when she died - I stopped being terrified when the phone rang, for example.