Can anyone help us?

[AStupidFool]

I don't know why but I've resorted to seeking help from a community and this has always seemed a friendly, caring and helpful one. Maybe because I am naive in relationships myself, despite being the older of the two of us in trouble, but I need some guidance or advice if anyone feels they might be able to help. Thank you to anyone who reads all of this and tries to help.

I am 38 years old and hopefully you won't find this too surprising, but I'm a man. The trouble I have though is that I have disrespected the love of my life and she no longer feels romantically in love with me and I need to fix what I have done for both our sakes.

I have to explain how we met and our backgrounds if anyone is going to understand. As mentioned I am 38 and I had my first relationship when I was 24. I wasn't very attracted to her physically but I was pretty desperate and we got on well with each other. It was not love and we stopped the sex thing in 2008 maybe, maybe earlier. We are still flatmates and friends and I haven't sought a relationship since then, until love found me.

In 2016 on a social gaming site of all places another user and I got chatting and we were fabulous together. She was 21 at the time and I was 36. We sought to spend time with each other almost every day and we were the highlight of each of our days. We discussed some fantastic things for many months and discovered we thought so massively alike about almost everything. She became the only reason I went on the site and she has told me also that I was her only reason to do so. I was jealous that someone as fantastic as her would never be mine, I mean...I'm fifteen years older than her, she's not going to be interested in me right?

Well, we ended up moving our chats off the site and onto Google Hangouts we would see each other pretty much every day still and we watched films and things together. I discovered that she is in a situation where her choice of partner is not entirely hers to make and she wants to escape from that situation, and I offered out of deep friendship to marry her and then she could divorce me and be free to choose since that seemed to be her only way out, but she's not able to really and she wants to finish her education first. I started to help her with that since I have a degree in the same field and it's still really fun.

Then one day...after over a year since we had first met on the social gaming website, she asked me what my relationship was with my flatmate and I told her...to which her simple response was "I love you" and I simply replied "I love you too". For the record, I live in the UK and she in the USA with her parents and siblings. Due to her aforementioned situation, we haven't been able to meet in person because it would cause too many problems for her.

We found that we had even more in common as time went on and she was afraid initially that I would leave her because of the relationship being physically unfulfilled. This is her first relationship of this nature, she tried a couple of months with someone else when she was years younger and it didn't work out because he wasn't interested in giving her attention.

I allayed her fears that I would leave her and we have gone from strength to strength. I have been difficult at times because I found myself waiting for hours and it frustrated me not knowing when or if I would see her, she never really told me a time, or if she got busy she never sent a message that she wouldn't be around. Both would have been ok, but my frustrations came out wrong and they made her feel she needed to do more to please me, to spend more time with me and she then tried. She was having some difficulties and she left me for all of about two days, then I got her attentions back and explained what she felt wasn't the case and the matter was resolved, then we started talking on the phone from the date of our first anniversary.

This was even more fantastic, and she has a very pretty voice. Did I mention she is insanely beautiful too? We talked almost every day and everything was even more wonderful. We seem to feel each other's feelings too, at any time, we are soulmates and we both know that. A chance encounter that neither of us was looking for and yet we found each other and have a relationship and connection that we both feel most couples never have. The phrase love found us could never be more true.

But things have gone so terribly wrong. Her family do things which I believe are disrespectful of her, they don't treat her with the value she deserves sometimes and her 'situation' that she is not free to choose what she wants for her life I feel is disgusting. I have tried to convince and reassure her that she is free to do what she wants with her life at all times, but shortly before Christmas I had a rant about her family ill-treating her because I am so fiercely defensive of her and she told me plainly I had crossed the line and that she would not have anyone disrespect her family.

She went for a few days, partly because of moving house which I found out about afterwards, and she came back and told me she didn't want to be in the relationship anymore because of what I had said. I apologised and she was uncertain but went along with my apology and we enjoyed Christmas and New Year chatting with each other still. Then a few days after new year she told me she loves me but she has lost her attraction for me, that maybe time would heal her but that she wanted to remain friends.

Don't get me wrong, we founded our relationship on a deep friendship and we are soulmates, we will always be friends for sure and I have promised her that more than once, when her doubts have arisen and she has needed to feel secure. I have always been supportive of her and I will always be there for her no matter what.

We carried on talking most days as usual and I have never wanted to disrespect her decisions. Being older and having more life experience than her, I have always felt I should and have wanted to guide her in her best interests when she has been in difficulty, even if the difficulty was with me at the time. I tried so hard to give her the time but I love her and my heart was so lost when about five or six days later I was hit with a dread of her one day finding another person or through her 'situation' ending up with another person and accepting them as who she had to love in her life...and the thought of her sharing her love with someone else in the moments we have both dreamed of and talked about being so magical, having forgotten me, drove me to some sort of breakdown. I sent her a long message apologising and explaining as much I could about our relationship, I told her of those thoughts too and how they filled me with dread (I hadn't broken down by that point). We spoke and she told me she had sensed in her heart that I had not been ok through the connection we seem to have and we discussed a couple of things about it and she said again about maybe needing time.

But the effects of the dread caught up with me and by the middle of the night I was unable to control a panic spiral and I couldn't hold on to any thought to try and break it. It lasted a few hours and I'm still recovering I think with occasional tremors still and weird feelings. I turned to her for help and she came when she was able and helped me overcome the acute attack by talking me through things to do that would help. We spoke the next day and later on when we decided to talk a bit more about us and I broke down in tears about various things, she says she didn't cry but I don't believe her entirely, but the one thing that got me the most was that I had taken from her her happiness with me. We've obviously shared photos and there is a look in her eyes of belonging and trust and to think I have deprived her of that, even if for a short while until heals is the most devastating to me.

She comforted me and said she was still here and again that she thinks she might just need time to heal. She explained that she shut her feelings down to stop being harmed before Christmas and that they haven't come back on again. She told me some things about when I had been frustrated waiting for her long before that made me realise she had felt a prisoner sometimes and I was shocked and asked why she had never said about it, she insists she did and maybe I missed it, but I explained that was never the case. She said that I would have wanted more time always, I tried to convince her I would not have. I would not say it if it was not true. We discussed a few things about the plans we have together about doing fitness training and pursuing academic goals. She asked what my back up plan was if things didn't work out and we fell apart, which honestly suggests she considers us still together-ish. I told her honestly...I have none, that relationship-wise she is the only person I will love. We've said it so often to each other as well and that we would not live well, or live at all if we lost the other. I told her as She already knew and as I've explained above if you still remember that I have not sought a relationship, we just happened and love found us and that even if I were to try no-one would match up to her anyway.

I asked if I could undo the harm I've done, she doesn't know. I've asked if we can try things to restart our relationship and she has agreed to try. I'm so worried for her mental health because she has these occasions when she shuts down rather than experiencing a negative emotion since years before me that I have at various times told her I want to help her with. I believe she needs to experience the emotions and learn, with my support and guidance, in complete safety how to deal with them otherwise I think they might go unresolved and harm her later in life when they finally resurface and have to be dealt with. Absolutely no-one can lock up a negative feeling and keep it away forever and I want her to find that balance where she is in control and can be happy...and I will help her every step of the way.

I suggested this about what happened and she believes it should be talked about, is this the wrong thing to move forward with? Would revisiting it and discussing it be a bad thing and we should try and start anew and try and leave it behind, maybe for another time in the future if ever necessary? I don't want to harm our chances to move forward from this and her to heal. Should I even be asking her to try already?...or at all? Is this too soon? Does she need more time and is going along with things because she feels I need a softer drop and she will gradually lessen things with time? Can she try or is she fooling herself based on my beliefs?

She keeps asking questions about my self-esteem and belief in myself, and I feel these have made her feel less attraction for me. I have my plans which I only have because of her, to make a life with her, which she knows about and wants me to achieve. Is this all she needs? Do I simply need to reach these goals and her feelings will rekindle by themselves?

Today I have been positive about moving forward and discussed with her how we lost our intimacy and suggested plans to improve them and we have revisited a lot of moments we enjoyed, we have laughed and joked about things. We shared a new song, which I heard the other day after years of never hearing it and she told me she had used to listen to it when she was a teenager imagining sharing it with someone and being in love...another connection we found?

She's never lied to me about her feelings or what she wants and my heart is no longer afraid, but she seems detached...is this still her emotional shutdown, or is this her agreeing but not really feeling it will work, or has she truly lost her love for me?

For myself I want nothing more than love her and be with her...for us, I believe we have to try, the way we found each other and how more than perfectly we have had the same feelings, thoughts and desires and the unimaginable connection we have developed that is still there is too precious to not try and continue to share...for her, I want to give her every love and kindness that is possible, I want to be the best I can be so she enjoys me the most she is able to

I simply don't know what has gone wrong, not once has either of us held a malicious feeling towards the other, we have demonstrated love at every moment, even when frustrated or hurt, it has always been with pure love...and yet through misunderstanding and confusion things have led us here. We have always been equal and respectful, we've never done a single bad thing to each other and yet in my anger to protect her it has harmed her and us, in some stupid miscommunication of my frustration I made her feel she was not good enough and I have told her that was never the case, she's just misunderstood what I was telling her. Can I go through everything that has gone wrong and convince her of what the real situation was? Should I?

I wish I could visit her and kneel before her, take her hand in mine and tell her, show her that things she felt weren't the case. It's obviously of my cause and I have and would apologise again for them, I should have seen. Would that even help?

She is lost at the moment and will do nothing without guidance, and I must not guide her unfairly or selfishly, I know this, but my greatest fear for both of us and our relationship is that if she stays disconnected for too long, she will never reconnect, and it is for this reason that I am trying so hard...to deprive each other, but in more ways her, of us and all we could be for the sake of either waiting or trying would be so unimaginably wrong. I just don't know what is the right thing to do, can anyone help us?

Have you given her money?
Are you sure she lives in the US?

Was also going to ask about money.
Please sort things out with your current partner. Tell her that she is now just your flatmate.

I didn't choose the online relationship, it just ended up happening. Wherever you first meet someone and share their company, become friends and have fun together doesn't ever have to be in a particular environment before you can realise you are attracted to each other. That can happen anywhere, any time, perhaps even with anyone given the right circumstances...but if you or anyone were to find yourself realising you and someone else had found something between each other that you knew most people never find, you knew it was different, wouldn't you strive to make it work? Wouldn't you want to wait for that person if they could not be with you right now?

She didn't want me to be in an unfulfilling relationship, personally I think it is fulfilled in many ways but for the purpose of the conversation I'll use unfulfilled to mean without physical contact. She didn't want that for me, maybe she didn't want that for herself too, I don't know I suppose. She wanted me to have companionship and all the things in a relationship that she was not able to give me right away, she thought it might be better if we waited and she would come and find me when she was able. I saw that simply as a lack of confidence in her worth and ability to love. Is there any reason at all why, if circumstances mean you cannot be physically together with someone, you should not enjoy a relationship with them on whatever basis you can? Why waste time not having fun and sharing as much as you can with someone because it's not everything but limited in some way? I really say not to do that, if you can have fun, with anyone, at any time and through any means, have it. We're all only here for a limited amount of time and to waste an opportunity of enjoyment that throws itself at two people I think would be a complete loss for those involved. Maybe I think differently to a lot of people because I have had opportunities taken away from me that I could do nothing about, I've lost my peace and life is not anywhere close to what I imagined for myself or indeed what I once was capable of achieving had things not gone wrong outwith my control. I wish sometimes, as everyone does, that I had made more of those things while I was able to so that at least now I could remember them more fondly and not as things taken away from me that I had wanted and planned to persist with through my life. Both her and I were given a fantastic friendship which we still have and still enjoy, and we realised we love each other and had the opportunity to wait or to have whatever enjoyment we could now whilst looking forward to that future. It certainly wasn't a difficult decision for me to make and it took some encouragement for her to see that it would be fun too and not to squander it. What if either of us died tomorrow and we hadn't shared anything because we were waiting for a better time. There is no better time than now, that concept of a better time is exactly the same principle people have been proposing here about this relationship, that it is not real and just something imagined until it happens, but epitomising it even more so. This relationship, even though the interpretations we have of it are not physically experienced, is real. It is here and can be enjoyed, a plan for the future is never real until it happens and becomes now, which is the only time anyone can ever experience anything.

So I don't think for a second we made a bad choice, I don't think there is anything wrong with enjoying this while we wait for the future. But as with all relationships, mistakes have been made and there are difficulties and I came here to ask for help and advice if anyone knows better than I, or indeed both of us, of how to restore things and help each other be right again at least. I don't think the love is gone from her but obviously I cannot exclude the possibility, but I don't know at all what to do to help her find it again and I fear that if it is left too long it may fade and not be able to come back, which neither of us wants. If she had wanted that, she could never have been hurt.

So if anyone has any ideas, or experience of a similar or the same situation (please just assume it is a normal fulfilled relationship) then we would be forever grateful if you shared that help to get us back to ourselves again.

I love your FYIs by the way. I know what you mean with the first one and I'm obviously not going to convince anyone or even try, but I am. I'm not an arrogant person but I am confident in my abilities and fully aware of my inabilities and how there is so much more that I can always learn and gain in many ways, but one thing that has always happened wherever I have been in life is that I have impressed people, almost everyone who has come into contact with me has shown it, so whilst not showboating I'm not afraid to tell people I can do stuff.

The other FYI...really? I think I'd feel the same way too. I suppose yes, you have shown that whilst my reasoning is not flawed there are still times when it's not altogether a good idea to be completely free with anything and everything in a conversation lol thank you

You're waiting for something that isn't likely to happen - Is she going to move from the US to the UK? Are you going to move to the US? It just seems so utterly pointless. I understand why you feel it's a relationship, and perhaps it is in some sort of emotional sense! However how long can this last? Indefinitely?!

Thank you ILoveChristmasLights. I understand exactly what you're meaning and obviously I haven't and can't give a full representation of our situation and relationship. When we started I had the same concerns as you have expressed. I said that she is young and doesn't know what she wants from a partner or relationship, and I suggested that she should see people closer to her own age and find out about herself. She refused that and said that it's her choice. I'm not going to take that away from her. Her situation ok, is that she would be told who to marry by her parents, they would pick for her and she would have no choice. She might not even like the man and that is a terrible thing, and she wants to get away from that but wants to finish her education first. I have offered, and it is always available to her, to free her from that. She owes me nothing for doing so and she can walk away from me if she so chooses. I'm disappointed you assume too that I am doing her work for her, I absolutely don't and never will because she will never learn the stuff if I did. I tutor, because I'm very able to break something down into a way that she can more easily understand, so if ever there is something she feels she doesn't understand, she asks me and I can help her understand it. I also help her organise and complete her work and give her inspiration for some things where her mind is stuck and can't fully imagine something. I also have helped her from nearly breaking herself by trying sometimes to do too much, I break some things down in components for her to do instead of one massive thing that craze anyone's mind to try and achieve. I help her keep focus and motivation and she benefits from it. Her results are reflected in that because she achieves very highly. She doesn't owe me for that either and I will promise you that everything is her own work and her own achievement, I won't take anyone's achievement away from them by doing it for them. Am I dragging her back in? She chose me and whether she sticks with that choice or not, she is still going to finish her qualification and escape her situation so that she can choose her own partner and husband. I'm not trying to prey on her or convince her to be with me, this difficulty and why I have approached this board is about our romantic difficulty only. She has her head screwed on and knows she's not trapped in any way.

Orchardgreen and ravenmum, no I've not given her any money and even if I were able to I really don't think she would accept it. One determination she has is that she wants to be self-sufficient and afford her own way in life. I'm not going to encroach on that unless I were to win the lottery or something and I would think then that what harm is there to give herself a bit of fun when it would be nothing for me to do and a help to her?

We've sent each other gifts and she's shown me her receiving the ones I sent when the tracking details showed up. I also don't think she can have an American accent and all the places she goes to having American accents in the background and stuff being mentioned in dollars etc. Is going to be faked.

I don't have a current partner. We have had separate rooms for over a decade and not had relationship for as long too. We do literally nothing together apart from eat sometimes and watch some television, obviously we do shopping together sometimes because that's a shared thing but that's all. We both want to have different places if ever the opportunity arises for us to do so, so there is no delusion of a relationship there on either of our parts. Can't a male and a female have a relationship, that end and them remain friends and then live as flatmates?

It sounds to me like you're more of a father figure?! Not wishing to pry but do your conversations ever become intimate? When does she finish studying?

@AStupidFool I don't think it's all you in the wrong, she isn't helping the situation either.

Can't a male and a female have a relationship, that end and them remain friends and then live as flatmates?
Sure, but I'll admit I got through the first giant post uncertain as to whether you both agreed that you were just flatmates, or whether that was just your description. It's unfortunately not unusual for someone having an affair to claim that their husband or wife is only a flatmate, when they are still sleeping together and the husband or wife has no idea it's about to end. But I do know a couple in the same position as you, not sharing a bed and literally now just flatmates.

Glad to hear she's not got you sending her financial "help". You sound a bit vulnerable.

I am actually quite a father figure in the relationship myself I feel. She has even likened me a few times to her father and so peculiarly, she is very similar to my mother. That very much entertains us both in that we realise people often find partners who are like their parents. She finishes in 2020 I believe, and we have been slightly intimate sharing fantasies with each other but we both felt that a sexual intimacy should be something kept to experience in person, not in pictures and things. Maybe that's wrong, maybe that's right. There's no lack of desire or interest and one day we may just go ONG why not? lol

This is disgusting, she is definitely younger than 21 which I assume you well know, and is very obviously trying to get away from talking to you all the time but you are guilting and emotionally blackmailing her into continuing.

I mean, most of me thinks this is just some bored MRA on a break from 4chan, but if it is real: you are gross, block her and leave her alone.

She might not be helping, but she is 21. He is 38. BIG difference. He’s also manipulating and controlling the situation. Every time she wants out he’s drawing her back in.

You ARE doing her work for her. SHE is supposed to be doing all the things you are doing for her, breaking things down, research, fact finding. NOT having someone spoon feed her.

please just assume it is a normal fulfilled relationship

No. Because it’s NOT. You don’t know someone until you spend actual time with them in person. You’re not the only one to start an online relationship. You’re not the only one who thought it was ‘the real thing’ because you spend a lot of time talking.

It is NOT reality. It’s just not.

You are 38, you are no longer able to do a lot of stuff and you’re not physically or mentally well.

IF you love this 21 year old, who is still living with her parents and studying - barely more than a child, with NO life experience & has her whole life in front of her, you will gently disengage and let her go. IF you only care about yourself you will keep insisting it’s fate and loves young dream. It’s NOT. You are either completely deluded or incredibly unwell. Either way you need to let her go and get yourself some help.

I really hope you can get the help you need and get your life back on track. Take care.

An entirely separate question, when you message this girl are your messages similar in length and word use/grammar/sentence construction to the ones you've posted here?

OP I am baffled tbh ... you seem to be much more invested in this realtionship than the young lady ... she is pulling away and you can’t seem to let go if I am understanding your posts.
You feel you are ‘ soul mates’ yet she come accross as having feelings for you but not as intense...

If she wants space or to cool things down allow her this as its her right .. as the saying goes .. ‘ If you love someone, set them free. If they come back they're yours; if they don't they never were‘

There is a huge age gap but that aside I have seen relationships work out and some that went ape Sh!t too.

Sort your flatmate out first .. tell her it’s over .. whatever the relationship is and then work on yourself than your relationship with said young lady..

At 21 I knew exactly what I was doing. However she sounds incredibly closeted due to her background - arranged marriage etc... controlling parents etc. I don't understand what you get out of this? Your efforts would be best spent elsewhere.

To ravenmum...I fully understand your concern with that and yes that would be wrong. I think if someone doesn't have the respect for themselves, if not for other people, to tell someone they want to be with another person then there is something very broken with them indeed and they really owe it to themselves to sort it out in whatever way because they're never going to be happy and they are affecting the happiness of others too.

I think I am probably vulnerable too, my mother certainly thinks I am so. But a vulnerable person doesn't always get taken advantage of and certainly in this relationship I am not being so. I made a promise and choices to enter into a friendship and a relationship knowing very well that it might be taken away. I hope very much that friendship never will be, but I had my eyes open with regards to the relationship and so did she. I don't think at all that either of us is taking advantage of the other or leading the other in a way that would be harmful. Yes, she probably does get the better side of things I suppose, help with her studies and a more experienced insight into any difficulties or problems she encounters in her life. She does try very hard to help get me out of a rut my life has seemingly slipped into and stayed in for so many years. She tries to provide me motivation and encouragement to move forward and overcome barriers. She even wants and is happy to be the person who earns the most money when we might be together because I can only ever work part time...which was something I found difficult to be comfortable with. Being older I am obviously more in tune with the traditional roles in a relationship but in no way think that the female can't be the breadwinner so to speak. That's not wrong, I just found it hard to feel it was fair...women do enjoy the feeling of a man who provides, that's almost an intrinsic attractive quality in a relationship and it was almost as if she wants to settle for not having that, and yet in the full knowledge that it will be the case unless something dramatic happens, she wants to be in that relationship...and all she asks from me is that I make the best of myself, and she wants me to do it for myself, not for her...now obviously I owe it to her faith in me to try as a hard as I can and maybe I will fail and maybe fall in her eyes. I really don't know, but I want also to try for her and to be the best I can possibly be for her. I have made promises to her that I will never break and she to me...but neither of us is trying to gain unfairly and we both have found it hard to accept giving at times when there is nothing we can give back in return, but in terms of a relationship if you truly love the other person then you are willing to give whenever you can and you are willing to receive when your partner gives as well. That's just how it works in our minds anyway

To Tiredismymiddlename85 I get to see her free how she wants to be in her life, and hopefully happy. I want that for my friend, and if we won't be together, however painful that might be for me now that our hearts have been shared, I'm not going to let her down in that. If I did then how can I ever believe in myself as a person?

This all just sounds incredibly intense, hard work and tiring. Wouldn't you prefer simpler life?

You sound controlling and immensely intense. It seems like she thought it was all terribly romantic but now wants to get away. She's 21, leave her alone to grow up and enjoy herself.

Yes and no. She's not encouraging me or helping me to do anything I've not wanted to achieve myself. She got me to tell her all the things I've done and things I had wanted to do with my life, and obviously those that are potentially still attainable, she's trying to help me to achieve them so that I don't have only regrets and sadness when I am old and winding down in life. That is genuine and she doesn't want or expect anything in return for that either. That is her love for me as a friend doing that because she saw a talented and capable person letting his life drift away because he can't find a purpose. She wants me to re-find my self-esteem and get some happiness from life. Now, she's right in all of that...in yours and other people's comments here too I can see a similar interest in me getting my life back on track as best I can, but it's going to be very hard. I can choose to do that by myself, or I can choose to do it with the help and support of someone who loves me and wants that for me, and who will help me in any ways she can. Why would I not accept such a kindness? Why would she not accept my kindness to her also? We just happen to have developed this romantic relationship also and there's very little people can do about that when it happens

You're actually starting to creep me out with every long update you post

She's 21, leave her alone

Well, you're obviously not reading them otherwise you would know her age and what the situation really is so I'm not sure why they would creep you out. Anyway, since it's started to get into a negative turn now it seems, I can imagine aggression and name-calling being not too far away so I'll leave it at that. Thank you all for your inputs and anyone truly concerned for hers or my well-being, I can only offer my assurances to you that no-one is doing anything not of their own free will and no harm will come to either of us.

Thank you all again

What a load of intense, naval gazing bollox! You had my sympathy in your op but I can only wonder at someone who has the time and energy to talk about themselves at such great length. Life is for living, not for endless speculation and hand wringing. Keep your online friend if you wish but I urge you to start living in the real world.

The title of your thread is interesting.

There is no "us" here. This person is a stranger who you have never met.

You need professional help x

I think this is flame war practice, I'm hoping that by 10pn we'll have moved on to drawf fortress depression quest and ethics Then in the early hours some Godwin's. Finishing with a fizzle out.

Mate stop procrastinating about her, let her be and move on to battlefleet gothica, you'll have more control and won't have to question the motives