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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Really depressed after meeting Woman's Aid solicitor

25 replies

deepseapressure · 11/01/2019 10:54

I stupidly moved with DH job over a year ago to a different country in the UK. We have two young children. My husband is emotionally abusive and manipulative (which is how he coerced me to come with him even though I did not want to), though not illegally so. I could not make case of coercive control, though I feel controlled by him, and his behaviour is worse since we came here. My husband will not tolerate me leaving him.
I have a property in the country of the UK we used to live and asked the WA solicitor about what would happen if I wanted to go back. She said he could make an application to stop me taking the children. SHe said if I took the children without telling him it would look bad in a custody case. She said the courts may decide the children are better off where they are now than being uprooted. She also said for more advice I should speak to WA in the country I wanted to move to, as if I were living there, that country's rules would apply. But when I phoned them they said she was wrong and I need to speak to a solicitor in my current country.

But anyway, I guess the point is I am fucked. I can't go back and rebuild my life, with the job I wanted for myself (which doesn't exist here), and which it took my whole life to find my passion, or with my existing friends and community. I don't see the point of leaving my husband to stay in this country. THere's nothing for me here and I'd just be poorer, my kids would be poorer, and life would be harder.
I can't see anything for me than just being trapped. I already go to bed every night and hope i don't wake up. I don't feel able to go on, but I don't feel able to end things either because of the children. I feel utterly hopeless.

OP posts:
PurpleWithRed · 11/01/2019 11:01

Is he likely to push to be the resident parent if you leave?

deepseapressure · 11/01/2019 11:14

Probably. His big thing is that I have to live with him so that the kids live with him too. That is why he pressurised me to move with him even though I told him I didn't want to.

OP posts:
Bumblebee39 · 11/01/2019 11:40

Sorry to hear that @deepseapressure
I think that although things like coercive control and emotional abuse are not illegal they are often hard to prove and therefore go unchallenged which is not fair at all but unfortunately the current status quo.
I can't advise you but I just wanted to say, it is really shitty when the system fails you and I'm sorry this is happening to you.
I would seek a second opinion though, legally. They rarely give fathers residency over mothers, so although you might have a long fight on your hands I don't think this is the end of the road.

Bumblebee39 · 11/01/2019 11:40

Are now illegal sorry

deepseapressure · 11/01/2019 11:49

Thanks Bumble.

I don't really have a job to pay for a solicitor, though husband does : (

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AssassinatedBeauty · 11/01/2019 11:52

Would it really not be better for you and the children to be living on your own away from the emotional abuse and control? Even if you were poorer for a while? To have hope and not feel so trapped?

Musti · 11/01/2019 11:54

I would get advice but also look at getting a job where you are now. If you were in the UK and still in the UK you should be able to get another job in your field

Bumblebee39 · 11/01/2019 11:57

Some solicitors offer a free advice session or phone call

Bombardier25966 · 11/01/2019 12:01

She's given you various scenarios that might happen, not that necessarily will.

How old are the children?
Do you think that your husband would go for full custody, and would it be practical with his work? Are both your families in your old location?

It is still rare that a father gets full custody, or even a 50:50 agreement where it's not practical. You've got the worst case scenarios, but on the whole the law tends to favour the mother being the primary carer, unless there is good reason for them not to be.

watchingtheworld · 11/01/2019 12:10

An acquaintance split with her DH then got a job in the area she wanted to move to. He took her to court but she was allowed to go with the child.

deepseapressure · 11/01/2019 12:19

One child is in primary one, the other not in school yet. My husband is detached from reality. He wouldn't think about practicalities, just that the children had to be with him. He's also a liar. Not in the usual sense of trying to convince someone of something he knows to be untrue, but in the sense that he actually convinces himself of his own lies and nothing can dissuade him from them. That makes him convincing to people who don't know him as he really believes what he is saying.

Musti, I don't really have a field - I had found a field I wanted to work in.

Assassinated. I can't imagine feeling happier. I'd still hate him for reducing us to that. I just can't imagine being happy here. I don't really have any strong friendships here or anyone to help out like I would where we used to live. I've got an appointment at a mental health charity on monday though to see what help they can offer me. I know that I am dangerously unhappy, and that my head feels under so much pressure..

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deepseapressure · 11/01/2019 12:24

That's encouraging watching.

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deepseapressure · 11/01/2019 12:25

Watching, were there other factors in your friend's case? Was she able to prove abuse, or was it just a normal marriage breakdown? I suppose I am asking if there were extenuating circumstances that meant the court thought it was best for the child to go with her.

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deepseapressure · 11/01/2019 12:26

Bombardier - neither of our families live here or where we used to live.

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DogDayMorning · 11/01/2019 12:29

I'm so sorry to hear how low you are feeling and how difficult your situation is. Some thoughts:

  • I assume you have seen the GP about your depression and you are receiving medical help?
  • can you seek a second legal opinion?
  • are your family/friends back in your home country able to help you financially/practically with an escape plan?
This is not your life for good OP, with help you can escape it and achieve anything and everything you want. Hold fast and make a plan. Hugs Flowers
Bombardier25966 · 11/01/2019 12:30

The court will think about practicalities. If he cannot look after the children (or have a support network to care for them), then they're not going to award him custody over someone that can provide that care.

Have you still got a contact at Women's Aid? You need to sit with someone that can help you formulate a plan, the practical stuff, and actually give you time to think it through.

moredoll · 11/01/2019 12:30

In your position I would sort out schools and job in your old area and then move back. It will take time to get to court and if the children are settled the court will consider that. Can't think what your job is but if you can only find work in your old area then it seems reasonable to move.

SpiritedLondon · 11/01/2019 12:33

I would start keeping a log of specific occasions when he is abusive, controlling, dishonest etc. With coercive control you have to be really specific with your examples to show a pattern of behaviour. Perhaps set up a note on your phone and include the date, time, behaviour, the result (eg I didn’t go out) and if relevant a number of how scared you felt ( 5 out of 10 for example ). This is not new legislation but it takes a few years for anything new to seep through to practice. People will still be conditioned to look for physical abuse etc - it’s so much easier if you have bruising to show someone I know. Then if you are at the point where you want to report it or use the information at court you can show specific examples. It’s so much more persuasive than vague terms like “ he’s really controlling”. It’s important you don’t give in. What would he do if you told him you were leaving ?

deepseapressure · 11/01/2019 12:52

I haven't been to GP. HV asked them about waiting lists for counselling and it was six months. I did talk a bit with GP when I went in for an appt for my youngest, but she just really annoyed me. I was clearly miserable and told her I had never wanted to be here but she was just like 'HAHA, just find some baby groups then you will be fine HAHA. Where did you used to live? Oh dear it is so lovely there, what a shame Ha HA'
And that pissed me off so much I didn't want to talk to her.

I had though the solicitor would help me think things through, but she was just like ' I can't really advise until you have a firm plan' And ' you need to speak to a scottish solicitor anyway', so that didn't really help. I guess i could go back to them and explain I feel stuck and confused after speaking to legal advisor in previous country.

In your position I would sort out schools and job in your old area and then move back I wish I were brave enough to do that. But I;m scared my eldest in particular would hate me for taking him from a materially comfortable existence with his father to living in poverty with me. I mean, I won't have a vocational qualification. I had been considering staying here, getting a qualification that would be transferable to what I want to do, (so taking advantage of husband being able to provide childcare whilst I study/train) but now I realise that the longer I am here the less likely the courts will let me take the children. it's such a fucking mess. I wish I could believe as PP that this is not my life, but I have been though bad times before and been sure they would end but this one just seems so fucking impossible.
Every option I look at just seems shit. I know rationally I need to move from a position of fear. I'm hoping mental health charity can help with that. I just can't do it on my own at the moement.

OP posts:
deepseapressure · 11/01/2019 12:58

What would he do if you told him you were leaving ?

I honestly don't know He would be furious. Actually, I do know one thing he would do as he has threatened it before when I have told him I am so unhappy that we have to separate. He would go to my eldest and tell him that I am trying to take his Daddy away from him, and does he want that to happen?
I don't know if he would physically try to stop me. He might. He would be very intimidating.
I suspect the reason he couldn't get a job anymore in his industry where we used to live was because he had a reputation for being aggressive and intimidating. I know that he has been warned by HR and others on several occasions due to his behaviour.

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lifebegins50 · 11/01/2019 13:18

There are a few threads about moving on the Divorce/Separation board..have a look at it's reasonably common.

Assume you are moving from/to Scotland to England or NI?
Also today are you main carer? Does you H provide childcare or is he less involved. What income does H have?

You can leave, firstly into rented and your H will need to provide CMS or other help if his earnings are sufficient. Look up benefits that you will also be entitled to.

Next step would be to apply to court for a specific issues order to ask a judge to consider your move. They will not block you moving as long as you can show a realistic plan for contact with dad.

If however your son will not want to move then that will be your stumbling block. My dc thought Ex was wonderful when we lived together as I was the target of his abuse. Once I got away it became apparent to the children it was H. Without me as whipping boy he started on the dc.

That is why it is imperative you move to a separate home and start divorce proceedings . Trust yourself and your children..if you have been a loving mum they will want to stay with you.

Do you know equity in house/savings as solicitors will often only bill once a settlement is agreed? If your H has a high income he can be ordered to pay interim spousal maintenance.

It is not all bleak...focus on your mental health and then the solutions will start to appear. It is always possible to leave, even when it doesn't feel like it.

deepseapressure · 11/01/2019 14:12

Thanks Lifebegins, for all this information. I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. There are direct flights from where we live now to where we used to live so contact at weekends isn't a problem.

I know my children love me. They love their Dad too. But I know they would adjust to us leaving apart, their dad moved down before we did and they were fine. Loved seeing him at the weekend but no sign of distress in the week.

I hadn't realised there was a divorce /separation board, so thanks for that!

OP posts:
DogDayMorning · 11/01/2019 14:30

Please don't give up on the GP - find another one at the same practice to talk to. Although the wait for counselling is long there are other things that could help you which the GP could point you towards.

The one you saw sounds like a knob.

glitterfarts · 11/01/2019 14:42

If you fear your DH then it is likely he is abusive. Threatening to take the children off you is abusive.

Have a look at the signs of abuse. Abuse comes in many forms including emotional and financial. Try the National Domestic Violence Helpline. There is also a women's legal aid thing but I can't remember what it's called.

Have a think seriously about what life would be if you moved home.

Could you fly from where you were to where he is easily - ie to visit for a weekend?

He'd likely have half of all school holidays. You might find that without you there to do the childcare etc, he gradually loses interest in the children.

Can you get a job and housing and school/daycare lined up before you go home, and can you study for your chosen career around the children's nursery/school? Are the schools over subscribed or could you get it? Ring the school and ask.
Could you stay with relatives for free for a while to get back on your feet?

If you went, the worst that could happen is:
a) ex goes to court and court orders kids to be returned to previous living place
b) ex comes and takes kids and without a court order, there's nothing you can do about it.

For now, definitely go to Citizens Advice and see what benefits you'd get if you left, whether you could get council housing or is the list too long where you are now, etc.

I'd separate and start the ball rolling asap. Life's too short to be unhappy. Kids are better off with a happy Mum and less stuff than a miserable Mum and bucket loads of plastic tat and a big old lonely house with a horrible atmosphere.

watchingtheworld · 11/01/2019 16:39

@deepseapressure
In the case I mentioned there was no abuse, he is a good, involved father. She actually to wanted to move to be with her new DP and so got a job close to him.

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