Can it be saved or have we just run out of road?

[BranchingOut]

I am in my early forties and have been with my DH for a long, long time. 20+ years. Married. We have one child, primary age, who is everything to us. He is a very driven high earner and I have a modestly-paid but socially useful PT job. We have a beautiful home in a lovely location and no real financial worries. He is ambitious, highly articulate, confident and a highly-organised problem-solver. I am also articulate, creative, care about social issues but am not quite so organised!

When our child was 1 year old we had a big marital crisis, where he said that he was having serious doubts about the relationship, various issues and wasn't sure if he wanted to be with me any more. This was a very bleak time - at the time I had a baby, no job, no childcare and no family support. He did not speak to me for 11 days and withdrew all affection for a further five months. He eventually turned towards me again and we reconciled. I found it hard to forgive, but eventually we put it behind us. I am summarising massively here, of course.

Fast forward to this year and he has been under a lot of stress - think director/major investor role in a big company with insolvency on the cards. It had the potential to lose quite a bit of our own money, not to mention the disaster for the employees....I have been supportive, listened to him talking about the problems night after night etc.

At the end of the summer we had a row, over a disastrous day-trip - not that it really matters! But the same pattern emerged all over again. He said some pretty horrible things, raised a number of issues, froze me out and all affection ceased. We haven't had sex since one slightly bizarre encounter a few days after the row.

We are still living fairly well together. Sharing a bed. Co-parenting. Talking about day-to-day matters. We have since had two family holidays together and I had hoped that they would trigger a reconciliation, but nothing.

This period has coincided with a significant period of work pressure for me, requiring me to be on top form in a new role. I haven't wanted to unleash the emotional upset that would be let loose by bringing up this issue, or set free a huge storm before Christmas, so have mostly left it to lie.
His work matters have now been more or less resolved and the company saved from insolvency. Still some risks, but he has the potential to do fairly well out of the new status quo.

His issues are:

I don't earn or contribute enough
I don't do enough for us as a couple
I am overweight/unfit
His life is monotonous

By the way, I am deliberately not putting my counter arguments to those points. I have them. But, at the end of the day, that is his point of view and explains his feelings.

My own issues are:

I want to be loved, not just tolerated.
None - I am happy and feel very lucky with my life

In his mitigation:

He experienced trauma as a very young child, carried some shame from this as he grew up in a small community and had a lot of pressure to 'do well' financially. There are background reasons for him being as he is.

I would love everything to be as it was before, but I am teetering on the brink of separating. Perhaps even just living separately and co-parenting within the same house. Does anyone have experience of this? We also own another small property so could feasibly try out a 'nesting' arrangement. Yes, financials are having a big influence on me there - not to mention the fear of what kind of an opponent he could be in a divorce.

He seems quite happy to carry on in this limbo and is trying to make joint plans for 2019 . He has turned down two offers to reconcile and, more recently, a couple of invitations to have 'just sex' - from me of course, not some random woman .

But on the other hand, I indulge in fantasy of a man who loves and desires me. I need love. I need that extra element in my life. I am still attractive and look a bit younger than I am - is the time to leave now? On the other hand, deep breath, I am also very tempted to keep the status quo but perhaps look for something discreet outside the marriage.

My next step is to have one last try, perhaps seeing a solicitor beforehand. But I thought I would first see what the wisdom of MN could offer.

God the more you write the worse he sounds; you honestly need to find your back bone and tell him where to stick his opinions of you, you need to be better, what is he actually doing because given your description it's him who sounds completely unlovable.

He needs a good sharp shock, he thinks he can treat you this badly and you will still stick around.

You need legal advice re your child and finances.
I would guess that you are in your mid-to-late forties.
Do you want another 40 years of what you currently have?
Are you both just unhappy but in your comfort zone?
The bad times have been when you have had upheavals in your life (new baby and money worries).
You are young enough to start a new life.
Kids are good at hiding emotions.
I would seriously be considering a new start. Get the legal advice and consider your options.

You can't argue with his issues as they're opinions and they're not wrong or right, they're how he feels, so trying to argue them is trying to ignore how he feels about them. However, you don't have to stick around and listen to those opinions.

You’re unhappy in the relationship and that should concern him enough to do something about it. I would feel disrespected in such a situation.

I tried platonic co-parenting (same house, different rooms, separate romantic lives) it was okay as a temporary measure but we stuck it out for too long (until it was unpleasant living together) and we should have made the full break sooner.

We are all different but in your place I would definitely leave. The current situation is so depressing and will not be doing your confidence any good. There's a world out there that might include a loving and fulfilling relationship with someone who will think you are lovely just as you are; but even if that doesn't happen (or takes time to establish) no longer being responsible for your marriage or your husband's happiness, or at the mercy of his silence/criticism has to be better than where you are currently at. I left an incompatible marriage & a bad-tempered husband when I had no home to go to, no job, and very little in the way of savings. Best thing I ever did. It was like the sun coming out.

So, is it right to say that both of these periods of limbo have coincided with periods of huge stress or upheaval for him? Birth of first child, and the business insolvency issues?

I must say on reading this it sounds like it's totally all about him - his issues, his sense of monotony, his crises. He sounds quite screwed up. It sounds like there are unresolved issues from his past. (He sounds like me, actually, and I am quite fucked up, but I know it and I work on it.) Does he think he is fucked up? Does he understand what's troubling him? I found that as my own children approached the age I was when I experienced trauma as a child, I was catapulted back into it. Is this perhaps an issue?

Regardless though - I don't realistically think there's a lot you can do to change things or help him, if he doesn't want to help himself. It might come down to deciding what you want for yourself, and not for your marriage.

Well done, arwen. Very sensible advice.

@BranchingOut

Wouldn't it be nice to just be with someone who liked you?

I can hear echoes of my exh in your posts... "you just need to be better" "can't you just..." "no not like that" "not like that either" "no counselling thanks, this is about you"...

In the end I just said to him (among other things) - "wouldn't you just prefer to be with someone that you... liked? Who didn't have to renovate herself in order to fit your specifications?"

Of course it was all back pedaling from thereon out. But I started to see that his demands were really his way of keeping the power balance of the marriage in his favour. He wanted me on my toes, because that was how he squeezed the most out of me - the cleanest house, nicest meals, perfect holidays, sex on tap in ever more degrading variations. I was constantly trying to prove to him that I was worthy and he enjoyed that very much.

Brutal to put it that way - but it was true (in my case). Eventually I did run out of runway.

It doesn't have to be this way. You also exist. You get to take control of this situation... it's not actually about just him, contrary to what he may believe.

Thank you all, a lot of very good and useful points that really resonate with me.

You both need to commit to a course of action to be either happily married or divorced. To be unhappily married is soul destroying and a waste of your life.
That is pretty much the point I have arrived at.

someone who will think you are lovely just as you are
I do long for that. In some ways, I have replaced getting that from him with getting it from colleagues, friends and acquaintances - even strangers. I try to be generous, loyal and kind. I love to be helpful to others.

The more you write about, the more unreasonable and intransigent he sounds.
How much money would be enough?
It is difficult to defend some of the things he says. I used to think that it could be solved by more money. He put a lot of pressure on me to go back to work (I had been effectively forced out of a senior post after mat leave). I eventually found a job that was pt, flexible, local, exactly suited to my skillset and that I really enjoyed. After a few months, he began complaining that I wasn't earning enough. I negotiated a payrise. He then wanted us to have W and X (in fairness I wanted X too, for DC), so we made a big change to our lives in order to have W and X. After a while he began saying that we really needed to have Y to be properly secure so I set up appointments to see Ys and we purchased a Y. He then began talking about a Z and this year we bought a Z. There is nothing left to do, our money is all tied up in W, X, Y and Z and he is still not content or secure.

I know him very well and have, over time, realised that this comes from a place of being financially insecure growing up, having it all to strive for and the weight of the world on his shoulders - even as a boy . Whereas I grew up in a threadbare but middle class lifestyle, where it didn't matter if you had second-hand clothes as long as you had a book to read and you knew that authorities would always be on your side...

I can feel compassion for the boy inside the man, but I can't continue to let the man question my value.

Wouldn't it be nice to just be with someone who liked you?
Yes.

I found that as my own children approached the age I was when I experienced trauma as a child, I was catapulted back into it. Is this perhaps an issue?
Yes, quite possibly. He had some very strong reactions in the first few months of becoming a father and I think it was tied up with some family history.

Just to say, thank you - I have read each and every post on this thread several times.

You seem to have your head screwed on, OP. We talk about relationships failing when sometimes they have just run their course. Trust your instincts for the right thing to do.

Update: we had a long talk at the weekend. It wasn't great, we both cried at times. I think he realises that I might be near the brink. Perhaps we both are.

The conclusion that we have come to is that we are going to work at it for three months, by both agreeing to do specific things. I am willing to give it a try, mostly because I don't want to put our child through a separation and all that that would entail.