Controlling ex husband won't let kids meet new partner

[theDrake]

Dear all, please can you help with some advice - please excuse the long post.

I've been seeing my lovely partner for two years now. She is completely divorced from a lazy, bullying, controlling, narcissistic man, but they have two kids (10, 6). There is a court order for contact in place, approx 60/40 in my partners favour..

The ex (who lives a few streets away from my partner) found out about me being the new love in her life not long after we started seeing each other and for the past two years has made their kids (especially the ten year old) petrified of meeting me, saying such things to them as 'no man is bringing my kids up' andsaying directly to them that he will disown them if they chose to live in a house with me and their mum. He is a big shouty imposing man .
We are desperate to get our own place now but I still haven't met the daughter and son because the daughter is so scared of his ranting reactions, and no doubt being disowned. My partner sees how upset she is which is why she hasn't initiated a meet up between us. The daughter loves her Dad still you see but is at a stage that any mention of meeting me and subsequently all moving in together has her in floods of tears. How any man can make his daughter feel like this is beyond me!

The behaviour my partner has had from him over the years is awful, refusing to leave the marital house and refusing to pay the mortgage, threatening to smash the house up, calling my partner threatening to dump the children outside the house when she is at mine so she has to rush home to find it to be a lie, never paying maintenance, telling his daughter to feel my partners car bonnet to see if she's been over at mine. My partner even called the police on him after a screaming fit from him down the phone, with the kids in tears texting her to come and get them - the police go around and he says that all is fine and the kids are perfectly happy playing nicely! A scumbag basically.

So my question is, can my partner get something in place to stop him from his behaviour to her, and also to stop his threats to the children regarding me meeting them? Can a non-molestation order be gained?

The fly-in-the-ointment is because he is now gone from the old marital house he is living at his parents round the corner where the children can't stay at night because there is no room. So the court order for shared custody hours is up in smoke - he is unemployed and virtually unemployable and will not be able to move out any time soon, so we subsequently now have a very restricted relationship.

Thanks for any advice you can give on any part of it

Drake

Thanks flamingpink. Until we get something in place to protect my partner we will struggle with me meeting the daughter again after yesterday. Hence why I wondered about prohibitve steps. Once the police turn up I will start working on doing the non-mol myself as I've been in discussion with CAB and they said they can assist.
Thanks for the social services link. It's definitely something to look atasche has utterly ruined his daughter with the disowning threats, and he really doesn't care about them, they are a pawn in his spite games. To clarify, the ex is living round the corner at his vile mothers and has no job, he is meant to be housing the children on his nights but there is no room (obviously after he took the kids away last night they will be on an air bed in his lounge) so he is in breach of the court order but how do you enforce it? He'd just tell a judge he can't find work despite we know he is just living there rent free quietly blowing the 70k he got from the marital home sale

You talk that you are desperate to get a place together but it's taken two and a half years to get to meet the kids really briefly. You do realise that you two can't move in together until you've spent a LOT of time, at least a year, probably two, with those kids as their mum's boyfriend, having spent plenty of time with them - that's regardless of the situation with the ex.

So for all your being desperate, you do realise you've got probably two years before you get to that stage yet? Probably longer. The kids could take years to get to feel comfortable with you because they've had their heads messed with by their dad who is obviously an arse of the highest order.

Fair play for sticking this out. There's no way I would have.

So the police went round to the ex and he basically laughed at them. He's just returned the kids and the daughter has said to my partner that he has said she's must do exactly as before and she MUST do exactly the same again and call him if I'm there during my partners allotted time with the kids. She will either call him or run around to his as she is scared of being disowned.

So I'm going to politely ask one more time...

Is this grounds to go for a successful non molestation to keep him away from my partner? Yes or No?

Is this grounds for prohibitive steps to stop him just taking the kids away at his own whim? Yes or No on this one?
We are desperate for help!

Thank you in advance , and for anyone who wants to say I should just leave my partner please do not comment as I'm not going to.

You (as in both of you) need to see a solicitor, OP. I don't see how anyone on here could tell you definitively one way or the other.

You need a solicitor pronto.

RedCowboyBoots - it was asked in vain hope that someone on here who has had either of those and been successful with it (or knows someone) could chip in with the likelihood. We went to a solicitor previously and they basically said that unless he'd knocked hell out of her the chances were slim. Or we'd have to wait until the above had happened multiple times (and subsequently making my partner on the verge of suicide) before the chances improved.
Well, I tried.

If that was the advice you got last time it doesn't sound very likely to be any different now.

Has your partner tried talking to the kid calmly? Ask why she doesn't want to meet you? What she thinks will happen of she does?

RedCowboyBoots - she doesn't want to meet me because her father has said nearly every day to her for ages that he will disown her if I move in with her mother - and obviously meeting the kids is part of that. Nothing my partner says to her makes a blind bit of difference as he has poisoned her and she doesn't want to lose him despite him being a horrific human being. Meeting me = getting disowned.
Please see my original post at the top of this thread x

I know that's what you said, but that may not be what she says when asked. If it is that can be challenged. Does she really think he'd 'disown' her? Does she really think she means that little to him? Why does she think he's saying these things? These are questions that could be asked. I think her position is illogical enough that it could be sensitivity and successfully challenged.

In her shoes knowing what I known now

Tell him I’ve split up with boyfriend and so upset that I’m selling up and moving away

Put house up for sale and move as far as possible away and take dc with me

If he doesn’t work or pay he’s going to struggle to see dc and that might be a good thing if he’s scaring them witless

If hes threatening to kick her door down why hasnt she reported this to the police as a threat against her/her property rather than anything to do with the family proceedings?

If I were her Id tell him he did not ever have permission to come onto her property and report the threats to the property. If he causes criminal damage thats separate to any family goings on. Police dont want to get involved in civil matters but his threats are criminal.

A non mol order might help but it wouldn’t stop the ex from saying these thing to DSD.
Something needs to address the emotional abuse side of it for DSD, as an adult we would leave a controlling relationship - but the person controlling her is her dad so it’s very difficult.

I’d potentially seek advice from cafcass. You might even want to involve social services as it does come down to emotional abuse. With DSD going back to school soon also get your DP to speak to school (safeguarding lead) and make them aware of the situation.
Speak to a good family solicitor, it won’t be cheap but you need to get some good advice. Your DP needs to be factual, threats written down and specific dates and times to reference too. The emotional impact on DSD, not just that she runs to her dad. But that she is scared of dad and scared of going against what he says as threats have been made etcv

I’m going to be blunt, meeting you isn’t a priority. Your gf getting support for her kids is the priority. In addition, you can’t swoop in and fix this because your gf needs to do the work because only she can break the cycle of her behaviour in this. Expecting an 11 brainwashed child to stand up to her father when her mother won’t is confusing.

The kids are the victims and getting pulled in two directions.

Proximity plays a big part in this so why hasn’t your gf moved?

What can you do? Step back and encourage your gf to get support for herself and her children. Which means she needs to log every incident, get counselling, get legal advice etc. All these steps need to be taken by her. Think of it as physio for the mind.

Your relationship can not be a priority as long as this mans influence is so strong on these kids.

I agree with AgentJohnson

These children need to have all the messing with their heads unravelling, the eleven year old is old enough to remember what life with her parents together was like and will have memories of her dad abusing her mum.

You say your girlfriend is suicidal, if their father can make a grown adult woman feel that way with his words it's understandable why the child can't and maybe doesn't want to stand up to him and I don't think she should be expected to because Mam wants her to meet her boyfriend so he can move in. This girl hasn't had a good experience of the last man that lived with her and if people are talking about you moving in she could be feeling anxious about you behaving the same way and hurting them.

Have the children had any type of counselling or support?

If you and your girlfriend are in it forever then there's no rush to move in together and even if the ex did a runner tomorrow it doesn't mean you'd get to meet the children and move in. There's a lot of healing and trauma that needs to be recovered from and I think moving in together and meeting the children needs to be bottom of the list of mums priories at the minute. That doesn't mean you have to end things but pushing to meet the children and moving in maybe needs to take a back seat until Mum gets well and strong enough to move away and work in the children feeling safe and secure and that may not be possible for a few years.

I would have moved (ie the g/f, exW), and to somewhere difficult to access from where they are all based now. Why would you stay in such proximity and facilitate this?

A word of warning. I managed to stop this behaviour from my ex by recording everything, having witnesses and ensuring all communication evidenced and just kept going back to court. When the ex realised she might actually lose child and have access eow she stopped. Unfortunately all the anger and spite was poured into child instead, since she couldnt get to me anymore. So now she tries to hurt me through child and its heart breaking.

Just saying, if he is prohibited from contacting your partner at all then what do you think will happen to the kids?

Your partner needs to make a decision, go full on and stand up to this bully, or back down and keep the peace.
Go for the non-mol, even if she doesnt get it it shows him she'll stand up to him.

Thank you all. Due to no help she can't move because of kids schools. He drove 15 miles at the weekend to take them so isn't bothered about proximity. Although I completely agree moving would receive some tension.
The last two or three posts contained some excellent points, thank you.
We gave made an appointment with a family solicitor regarding enforcing court order, as it has penal attachments regarding drugs and also harassment. SS will be shortly informed regarding the daughter along with the schools, and non-mol will be requested to stop him coming round.
THanks again for the last few posts x

Oh yes, the police were informed about his threats, they just said to record all conversations and use a call recording app if needed so they can use as evidence 'next time ' 🙄

As PP I think that the most important step is to address the mental state of DD. She needs help to understand that what her father is doing is wrong and that she shouldn't be afraid. A father's love shouldn't be conditional. On a practical level she needs to understand that her father doesn't set the rules in her mother's house.

My ex is an off-the-scale narcissist, still tries to control 6 years on from me leaving him. I had similar issues when I met my now fiancé - he attempted to put the fear of God into my two boys by saying things like: "Watch out for mum's boyfriend, he could be a paedo" etc... He tried to cause trouble at every opportunity.

Narcissists HATE the thought of "their woman" being with anybody else. It's irrelevant who the new man is.

It was very hard but fiancé and I stood firm and our united front meant that he could no longer attempt to chip away so much.

We still have issues eg. Ex refuses to let fiancé collect boys from his house at change over, citing he is "a stranger". It's partly to get at me but also I think partly because he still fancies me and enjoys seeing me ha ha!!

Stand firm together and, if this man is the right one for you, DO NOT let him ruin your relationship.

Fiancé and I are now ttc as I'm 40 next year and he has no bio kids-ex's reaction if we are fortunate enough to be successful is bound to be interesting!!

The situation is getting better. I doubt I'd have the patience for this.

OP do you have any big muscle bound pals?

If you do I would ask them to accompany you on a visit to this man to have a friendly chat because these kind of men need to know they cannot and ill not be able to bully their own children.

I once got chased in my car by a road rager he thought I had cut him up in my 3.5 litre car (yes my car is fast) My neighbour is a brute of a man with tattoos and a shaved head and works shifts at a local factory. So having driven quickly home with this man in hot pursuit I pulled up on my neighbours drive. Luckily he was in and answered the door just as the road rager started to get out of his car shouting abuse at me. My neighbour who despite the fact looks a nasty piece of work is very well mannered man with a wife and a couple of children. He quickly approached the road rager who had started to get back in his car and hammered on his bonnet. He then shouted "what the fuck do you think you are doing following Miley home?" As you can imagine the other guy started to apologise and quickly drove of. I don't condone threatening anybody with violence but sometimes these kind of men will not get the message unless they are threatened by someone bigger and stronger than them.

will not be able to bully

I would ease off the focus on meeting the children. It sounds like they need a lot of support before they can get to that point. I would recommend looking into therapy for the children. With support they might be able to break a little free of their dads influence.

Stop asking here for advice and pay for a solicitor. You seem to be getting annoyed you aren't getting the answer you want.

Legal advice should have been your first port of call when the issue is a serious, legal issue as this is.