I want to be less involved with my family but they haven’t done anything wrong

[Greenring]

I feel really horrible and guilty for feeling this way and I’m not sure what to do about it. I am in my thirties with two children and a husband. When I say my family, I mean my parents and sister (though it is mainly parents).

I feel horrible and guilty for feeling this way because my family aren’t horrible or abusive and there hasn’t been any issue. I have a tendency to overthink things and I feel that’s even more true of my family. I don’t always trust my thoughts because of the overthinking as one day I can feel fine about something and the next day my mind is completely changed after I’ve been dwelling.

I have noticed lately that I feel better after a break from seeing them. The problem is that we are close and they are very involved in my life. I feel like a bloody teenager - I am often quite irritable when they are here and I feel very annoyed/judged/suffocated by things they say or do which wouldn’t bother me if other people were doing them. I feel really awful for feeling like this about them because they are nice but I feel suffocated. They would be gutted if they knew I felt like this and I can’t tell what is a normal amount of contact to want/need.

A bit of backstory is that they are very religious (think in a sort of fundamentalist way) and set in their ways. This isn’t very apparent to most people but I feel quite a bit of pressure to not offend them with things I do or say. I hold completely opposing views so mostly try to avoid controversial topics or bite my tongue. But this does extend to worrying about what I say to other people in case it gets back to them and sort of regulating the things I do because I feel uncomfortable with them finding out, I would say that when I was younger I used to panic at the thought of them finding out I had done something they wouldn’t agree with, which were many many things. The way they think is so rigid that even things which wouldn’t seem controversial were something I’d have to try and hide/justify to myself and have excuses ready to explain myself to them if they found out. Think things like buying a yoga dvd. I think they might have chilled out about stuff like this since, but it might be that I just don’t hear it anymore. They wouldn’t do anything awful if I they found out so I don’t know how to explain why me and my sister feel this way. They are very set in their ways and seem to think that the way they do things is objectively ‘right’.

Anyway, I became a parent young and so I lived with them for a while with my baby. I had mental health problems for many years and didn’t really have any life or friends. They were the only relationship I had and I went to their house for tea every day, went out with them every Saturday, went to their house most of the day on Sunday, went on holiday with them, celebrated every important day with them, went food shopping with them... you get the picture. I am very grateful that they helped me out so much and they are so generous but a part of me feels that they liked me still being so dependent on them and still sort of being ‘in charge’. Me and my sister both turned out to be lacking in confidence and were not independent at all. I was living on benefits at the time and when I said I wanted to find a job and use childcare my dad left the table saying that he couldn’t eat near me because I disgusted him. I was very psychologically enmeshed and dependent on them so that really affected me. Like I said, I am really grateful to them for their geenrosity with time and money and I would definitely go to any lengths to help my children when they were older... but I can’t imagine thinking it normal for them to be so dependent on me and not trying to encourage them to break away and have lives or thoughts of their own.

To the here and now - my parents seem to struggle with me not wanting to be so involved with them. They don’t say anything horrible or or do anything wrong but I feel so bloody guilty and awful. I managed to say no to going on holiday with them last year and felt like shit cos they were obviously gutted. I feel so bloody ungrateful complaining about it because it was a free holiday, picked with me and the kids in mind, they’d ask if I wanted to go anywhere in particular, want to pay for everything, do all the driving... but being with them for a week was an exercise in biting my tongue and putting on an act for the sake of the kids. My mom looked like she was going to cry when I told her. Again, they haven’t done anything wrong but being with them is like slippping back into old roles and I just find the whole thing very uncomfortable. The previous year I had to listen to loads of faff and stress about them desperately trying to get dates off in school holidays and complaining about other people having dates when they don’t even have children (it didn’t go down well when I pointed out that they don’t either). My dad wasn’t sleeping properly for worrying about everything being ‘perfect’. You’d think they were providing the only family holiday but we already had our own holiday sorted. I’ve also managed to say no to Christmas Day dinner with them, but they were really upset and apparently had to both keep telling each other that it’s normal and fine for a family to want to have some time alone... but I felt guilty so still had them over on the night anyway. So I saw them Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Year’s Eve and New Year’s Day and some days between and I don’t actually enjoy it.

My birthday is coming up and my mom mentioned going out for a meal and I said I didn’t want to. She was really shocked because it’s what we’ve always done and wanted to know why. She said oh it’s a good job I checked because I would have just phoned and booked a table..... and it really got my back up. I have a husband who is perfectly capable of doing that or I can do it myself but she seems to see herself as the main relationship of me and the children. Logically, I know that it’s perfectly normal to ask why since I have always done it and if someone else had asked me that I wouldn’t have been annoyed by it. A part of me feels guilty like I was happy to do everything with them when I had no other options and I am now ditching them.

I can’t tell whether this is me being strange or what is a normal relationship with your parents as an adult. Would others feel the same way and what should I do about it?

It sounds like you are still enmeshed and suffering from FOG.

There is nothing wrong with you needing for space from them. It sounds like you need to get to a point where you are confident to say "That's not what I think/do you need to respect that" basically be able to stand up for yourself rather than biting your tongue and have a more honest relationship where both sides agree to disagree and be respectful.

Can I strongly suggest you get some therapy to establish boundaries with them?

How involved were your grandparents when you were children? It's perfectly fine for you to remind them "DH and DC are my focus now" try may not like it but really that's there problem.

Hopefully you can manage to distance without catastrophic fall out but they may resist you putting in boundaries and stepping out of the role you've been playing until now.

Thanks for the reply. I wouldn’t say that I necessarily have to bite my tongue because they are always spouting their opinions at me but because I react far more strongly towards them than I would other people, as I suspect families often do. I think that might be more my issue than theirs. They don’t tend to talk about their religion to me other than mentioning they’ve been to church or what so and so at church said. I would feel very uncomfortable having a book written by Richard Dawkins on display or something talking about evolution. I remember buying my eldest a book about evolution and really worrying about how to deal with it if he asked one of them to read it. Perhaps that sort of thing is more normal though and most people would tidy away anything obviously offensive to religious people if they have religious people coming over! The religion thing is a bit more subtle than that because it’s sort of at the core of all of their opinions and view of the world, so if we were ever to discuss something, it would always come back to this immovable thing that requires no evidence and is unchanged by proof. This stuff isn’t obvious to most people because they don’t go on about their religion a lot, but obviously I am more aware of their beliefs and held to a higher standard... they seem to assume that I will agree with them as if theirs isn’t the only morally correct position. It means that I would avoid discussing things in any depth anyway. They are definitely aware that I am not of the same opinion as them on many subjects. My mom seems to quite enjoy being a martyr and sometimes makes very annoying comments along the lines of it must all just be soooo much easier to not be religious and she can see the appeal. Like I frequently go around murdering people without some sort of religious guidance I try not to dwell on it too much but sometimes feel really angry that they led me to believe things like I was literally going to live through the apocalypse and had to be mindful of demonic possession BUT I think it’s actually our normal day to day relationship and personalities which are the issue. My sister has the same sort of reaction to them as me despite being of the same religion.

My grandparents weren’t involved at all - they both came from abusive homes and I think tried to overcompensate for that? My maternal grandad was extremely violently abusive and my mom stayed with her mom to protect her to some extent and only left when her mom fled one night. She then died a few years later. I have tried to point out to my mom that she wouldn’t have wanted a grandparent doing this with me and my sister but she says she didn’t care about her mom doing it. I think that is because their relationship was already not normal. I would never say that to her because she is still very sad about her loss and struggles to talk about it without becoming emotional but doesn’t see anything out of the ordinary about their relationship. My paternal grandad was also abusive and my dad left with him rather than stay with his mom because he felt sorry for him, which led to neglect and bullying. They cut contact with my paternal grandmother when I was young because she was toxic. They had me very young in a not ideal situation. Me and my sister were extremely mollycoddled and I think they were over involved in our lives for way too long. My sister still lives at home rent free and has a horrible, weird, teenage relationship with them. I’m often stuck being a sounding board for both of them and I can see fault on both sides but I mainly think that my parents have sort of caused this situation. They struggle to respect us as adults, I think. I don’t think they’re conscious of it. I have had a few real rows with them when they have very obviously overstepped the mark and tried to take over with my children. They seem to make effort not to do this now, and I think I’m a bit over sensitive to it because of them doing it in the past so I see everything as a problem.

I feel really bad saying all of this because I know my parents without a doubt would be there and do absolutely anything for me or my children. But it’s all too much and I’ve started to dread seeing them. My sister once made a jokey but half truthful comment about how she’s been put off having children having seen how obsessed they are with mine, and my mom was really hurt by it for a long time. But it is kind of true. My eldest is involved with CAMHS and I did originally talk it all through with them but have had to stop since they seemed to take this as them getting a say in what happens. They would word it as things like ‘well we’ll have to see how he does and make our minds up once he’s had a few sessions’. But there is no we... my mom once asked to come into a consultant appointment because she wanted to ask a question about his teeth! I quite curtly pointed out that I am capable of doing it myself and she was really apologetic about it and kind of beat herself up about it for a while. So they do recognise it when it’s overt like that but I see it as a constant undercurrent. I no longer ask for lifts to things like that because of it. But then I feel pretty guilty that I was happy to accept their help until they did something I didn’t like. I don’t know how mich help you are allowed to accept without feeling like they get a say. It makes me feel guilty. But I do see other families having grandparents babysit etc without acting like they are in control of everything. I feel like I can’t have a conversation with my mom without her attempting to give me unwanted advice or somehow put herself in the position of the one who knows everything and has to be passing on knowledge all the time. I’m not a child anymore and it’s really, really frustrating. I then snap at her a little and get kind of defensive and she is upset because she doesn’t know why I’ve reacted like that or how I view our interactions, but it comes across to me as this constant need to be ‘the parent’. I took my son out for his birthday recently and was discussing logistics of cars etc with them. He had a friend coming along and they instantly offered to pay for more. It is a nice offer, but again got my back up right away. It is this belief that that’s not the RIGHT way and that it is obviously correct to invite more than one child and it must be a financial issue so they did that. I never expressed any desire to have more than one other child there. Then, when we got there, there was some confusion over the table. I had dealt with it and my mom then got the attention of the waiter to try to take over and deal with it. She then offered to pay for the meal and I brushed it off so as not to deal with it, but was surprised and unhappy when my husband went to pay. Wanted to know why he was doing that! I know it all sounds so silly and petty but why on earth wouldn’t we want to pay for our own meal which we arranged? It’s like a bloody battle to just make my own perfectly normal decisions about my own children and it makes me want to push them away.

I know they have discussions about me as my sister has overheard and I think tries to stand up for me and point out that they’re being weird, but they don’t get it. My son walks to and from school alone and there is a road with a bit of a dangerous crossing on it. He is more than old enough to learn to deal with this himself. But they apparently had discussions between themselves about it and how they’re not happy with it. Obviously, I can’t be annoyed at them talking about things between themselves. But then my dad managed to bring it up in conversation with me again and said “and you’re okay with that??” with a tilted head, once again putting me in a position where I sort of have to explain myself to them so they will feel ok about my choices. I just don’t feel like I owe them any explanation. I can’t tell whether I’m being weird about it though and overly resistant to everything they say. My dad often used to try to force me to ‘explain myself’ to him if I disagreed with him or made choices he didn’t like, as though he thought he owned me and was owed my thoughts. I remember him following me around the house one time sort of demanding it after I’d said I didn’t want to talk about something. My boyfriend at the time was there and quite angrily pointed out that I’d said I didn’t want to talk about it and my dad looked like he was going to punch him. But things have massively improved since then and I don’t know how much I’m just nitpicking.

I don’t know how useful therapy would be because I already KNOW all of this stuff, if you see what I mean. I had a few months of phone calls from my sister when they’d had huge blow ups because she wanted to buy a car. With her own money which she earns. The phone calls were full of her justifying it to me and giving me loads of reasons and trying to convince herself that she is allowed to buy a car she wants to without their say so. I had to point out how ridiculous it was that this could even be the source of an argument as an adult when it’d barely register as a conversation topics in most families. But she wasn’t going to do exactly what they would do so it was WRONG. They bought her first car, which she didn’t ask them to, but again it puts her in the position of being grateful and unable to say anything and they get to make sure things are done their way. She’s looking to buy a house now and I have already been trying to deal with the issues it causes when she shows interest in a house they don’t think she should buy or when she has different priorities to them. I feel annoyed that I even have to sit them down and point out that she is a different person to them who has a different list of requirements from a house than they do. Got myself all annoyed thinking about it again!

I feel particularly awful at the moment because I’ve been a bit off with my mom when she’s been here because this is on my mind and she’s been annoying me, so she’s then worried about me and offering to come over more to help with the kids etc. I feel like such a bloody horrible person. I honestly do feel that some of it is my own problem and I’m being too harsh or over analysing things but I can’t tell where that line is anymore.

That was way too long,sorry I guess I’d like to know if this is normal to some extent in other families? Is it normal for grandparents to find it difficult not to take over and I should relax about It more?

Oh bless you OP, they have done something wrong. They aren’t letting you be an adult, parent or person with your own thoughts, feelings and opinions. They see you as an extension of themselves and expect you to behave in a certain way. Their disapproval and disappointment when you don’t tie the line makes you feel awful because they’ve programmed that into you from an early age.

Your relationship with your parents should evolve as you go through different life stages. It doesn’t mean they aren’t still there for you, support you. But it does mean that they should respect your decisions.

My washing machine died yesterday and I’m skint. I’m also a single mum on a low income. I rang my mum to vent my frustration and she said she would buy me a new one and I could pay her back. So we met this morning at the shop. We all had a look around, chatted to the sales guy about economy, load size etc. Then my mum and dad said, which one do you want? They didn’t decide for me, they didn’t give an opinion other to say that the cheapest one was a false economy (they were right!). I guess I’m trying to show an alternate relationship. Mum will also chat to me about issues with dd (diet, bedtimes etc). She gives her opinion but always says “you’re her mum, I’ll support whatever you decide”. Which is really important as she has dd one night a week and it’d be a flipping nightmare if she had different rules.

I completely understand why you want to distance yourself and I think it’s the healthy thing to do.

toe the line

You say you feel bad because they aren't abusive but they absolutely are! They have emotionally abused you and your sister since childhood by keeping you dependent and unprepared for adulthood. Why do you think you has such bad mental health issues and were so dependent when your baby was born? They are resisting you taking back control of your life. If it was up to them they would control you until they die!

OP my relationship with my parents is very much like yours so I'm not much use advice wise to you, I'm interested in the replies you get because I strongly suspect its not normal and there is another way to be. I too feel very bad criticising them because like you, I know they love me and want 'the best' for me, but its their best, not mine.

It really isn't ok how they treat you and you need therapy to deal with the FOG you feel - fear obligation guilt.

You know it's not ok but the FOG stops you standing your ground with them, pushing back and drawing boundaries.

Sounds like what you want is a normal adult child parent rship. Not a dependant one. Because you had MH issues they may be too involved with you. You neec to let them know that their behaviour is detrimental to your recovery and you want to see them normally ie occasionally as you are all grown up mow and managing ok and you want a chance to do things alone
What your dad said wasnt at all nice..plus sounds like he treating you like a toddler
Push your chest out x

Although you know all this and can see it happening, therapy would help you to manage it and help you to find ways to communicate how you feel. The supportive yet objective relationship with therapist models a different sort of 'parent' relationship.
Also you can trial saying things you really want to say and explore your 'bad feelings' towards your parents in a safe place.

Echoing what others have said. Hope you can move towards healthy boundaries and start trusting yourself.

I would say that you need counselling. The counsellor could help you get your head round this and how best to withstand pressure from your parents.
Perhaps reading about codependency might help. It might explain your mother's relationship with her mother. If I've got that right. And possibly you with your parents. Melody Beattie Codependent no more.
There are tons of self help books out there, quite cheap second hand on amazon.

I'm going to hazard a guess that they're the same religion as my parents and I felt like you for years after leaving home - it got better for me with gentle (constant) reminders to them that I was an adult not a teenager, my child my choice, should have consulted me first etc
I have a good relationship with them now and you can too - do seek therapy though as it will help you to organise your thoughts and take control of the situation