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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Staying Rational When Family Owes You Money

10 replies

SweetLathyrus · 04/01/2019 18:39

This may be long. And I’m not even sure what I am asking really.

DH and I have been married for eleven years. Almost entirely harmoniously. Today we have argued about my DS and his DS 1. It’s about money.

My DS is 16, at sixth form and has guitar lessons as an extension activity (£500 per year). DH is not happy that I went ahead and paid for these without telling him (I did, I just mentioned the second instalment this week so he had probably forgotten).

Because My Ex is useless, (£26.47 per month), and mostly absent, DH has been the main day-to-day influence in DS’s life. My DS has the capacity to be a proper shit, but he shares it more than equally, I’m more likely the target than DH. But DH would like DS to be more grateful for what he does. But actually he has been less trouble than either of DH’s sons in the scheme of things – so far.

Now to DH’s DS1, I’m not going to call him DSS because he is only four years younger than me, so a man in his mid-forties. I’ll call him John.

John has a history of poor financial decisions. When DH and I were first together, DH had guaranteed a car loan, which John defaulted on – our overdraft was exactly the amount of that default for about 18 months.

Some years later, John asked us to be guarantors on a rental agreement. I said we couldn’t because we were in the middle of buying a house, and after the car loan, we couldn’t trust him. Fine, he made other arrangements.

Two years ago, John asks DH for a loan because he wants a new computer – about £2600. I wasn’t happy because I had been holding off buying a new laptop despite needing it for work, for about a year, but DH and I earn exactly the same so, although we pool all money he took responsibility and, took out a 0% CC to buy the computer, and John did pay regularly.

Cut to earlier this year – March. John and his family need to move on from their rented home, they have been gifted a new home in trust but need help as it is hundreds of miles from their rented home. John asks DH for £2000 to pay for removals while he waits for his rental deposit to be returned.

DH asked me, I agreed (on the understanding it would be returned by early summer). We are comfortable, but DH was due to retire this year, this was not money we could afford to write off.

Sometime in September, DH let it slip that John’s deposit had been withheld and that he had said John could start paying it back in Jan (2019) in instalments.

So, today, I raised the issue of the debt. DH has not discussed it further with John, and, appears to have written it off. This was when he started complaining about my DS. DH couches it in terms of not having done enough for John when he was young – hardly my problem, I have worked hard from a more working class background, and didn’t have the opportunities John had as a result of DH’s previous marriage (it’s a complicated family). And yes, I have had help from my parents, but I have always paid them back with interest (because that’s the right thing to do and so I can ask again if I ever need it).

This month we dipped into overdaft for the first time in eight years. Only for a day, and for under £100, but we have worked hard to get out and stay out of debt. I am supposed to be having a medical procedure this month that we are having to pay for privately and now I don’t want to because DH seems to have written off money I thought we had. (This procedure isn’t available on the NHS, but I am worried if I don’t have it done I will, in the medium term, be unable to work if it gets worse).

I suppose I'm looking for kind ways to speak to DH, and unemotional ways to speak about John?

OP posts:
Chaoticpenguin · 04/01/2019 19:52

DH feels guilty for not being there for John but John is using his dad too much and not learning how to manage his money. Dad will bail me out ....
DH shouldn’t be angry for your son having the guitar lessons that’s stupid and your ex pays a Harley anything.
Think DH needs to shut up really and stop being an ass. He’s not talking to you about money as to write off that amount without talking to you then having a go at the guitar lessons is ridiculous. You are DS mother and he’s still at home an financial dependant on you. The DH knew this when he got with you. Sounds like his DS has been bought up with whatever he wants and always gets bailed out as the family is better off and DH feels guilty. He’s really not helping him. DS John has to pay debts back. That’s life!

Hubby is unreasonable and would piss me off as your son is not even an adult. Guitar lessons are not a must but are great if you can afford them which you can but with the adult son that can’t get his life together and relies on the bank of dad he’s sapping away your resources. Xxx

Holidayshopping · 04/01/2019 19:58

Your DH isn’t happy that you spent £500 on guitar lessons for your son, but he’s given his own son thousands?

NotTheFordType · 04/01/2019 20:05

Youve been both been ripped off for 1000s.

What does your ex say he's going to do if you give him the scammers details?

Hefzi · 04/01/2019 20:07

Why does your ex contribute so little?

I think that you need to separate the issues out: John is separate to the guitar lessons. I understand that your DH has guilt, but that shouldn't be allowed to impact on your family life or family spending, and I don't think you should defer your operation either. I'm very envious and impressed by your lack of overdraft - I know how much you will have worked to achieve this, and clearly, from your post, that's included deferring purchases or going without. But this is something that will impact on your quality of life - and ability, presumably, to keep working when your DH retires. So it's not just your quality of life - which is enough reason on its own - but also the quality of the family life.

DH should have discussed the decision to write the loan off with you, but perhaps he's made it clear to John that this is it now? My parents did something similar some years ago - like you, I'd always paid them back as agreed, but they were fed up with me borrowing, as a grown adult. They made me a gift of the rental deposit (£750)I'd asked to borrow (to be paid back over 2 months) and said no more. (I did pay it back even so, but never asked to borrow a penny since Grin) Being given a house is a big deal, and moving is very expensive, so I can see he needed to help under the circumstances - but could John have been told now that that's it?

Not that this means it shouldn't be discussed with you, but is a possible explanation.

I can see your DH being pissed off if your son is regularly being a shit, especially if it's mainly directed at you: but again, that's a different issue (and presumably, one connected with being a teenage boy Grin)

Talk to DH calmly about this, and how it makes you feel.

Santaisfastasleepatlast · 04/01/2019 20:13

Your ds is a developing, fully functionality one.
His is a leech.

SweetLathyrus · 05/01/2019 08:14

Hefzi ex contributes so little because he has made a life choice to skate along the bottom, self-employed just about earning enough to keep him out of the gutter, but no more.

DH has acknowledged that John will have not another penny. His guilt over not 'being there' is really a distraction from feeling embarrassed that he had trusted him and to be fair we thought he had begun to change when he kept up payments on the computer.

I thought we had a pretty good and open relationship around money, I guess it always has the potential to become an area of conflict. I won't cancel the operation. I panicked I spent years in debt and don't like the idea of not having a safety cushion.

OP posts:
Doobee · 05/01/2019 08:40

Hmmm this is classic really. He doesn’t want to be the “bad one” so this is a guilt avoidance ploy. The £500 isn’t too much is it really plus it’s for a useful and interesting skill which as parents, that’s what you do for kids. We all do. He’s only lashing out at that to make himself less guilty/feel less guilty/divert from his user of a son. Tricky to know how to approach that one because he’s using your son as a crutch to escape having to hold his hands up about his. Classic transference. I’d leave it now and not bring it up again but it’s a firm no to anymore of his sons spending. You’ll need to have a conversation about your sons spending though because his getting older and at that age they need things. Maybe he can get a part time/Saturday job to fund things?

Returning2thesceneofthecrime · 05/01/2019 11:18

I’m watching this with interest as I have a step daughter with a very expensive lifestyle that DH and I are currently subsidising. We have only just arrived at the agreement that all future requests for money will be met with a legal loan agreement with penalties for defaults (but no interest payments because I am angry but not evil).

MrsBrianWarner · 05/01/2019 11:29

I disagree with all this so much.

Its not just your money.

My step mother does this shit. My dad had to sneak round a tv he had bought me without her knowing and other similar things. He was also an absent parent for a long time. Due to my step mother deciding she was in charge of all his money i always ended up with less than her sons.

It isnt just your money. He gets a say in how its spent too. Your hang ups over debt are your issues to sort out in yourself.

This will end up severing his relationship with John in the long term.

kayakingmum · 07/01/2019 21:54

I think there is a lot to be said for separate bank accounts. That way he could spend as much as he likes on his son and you could spend as much as you like on yours.

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