A complicated mess

[northwalesmum]

Apologies for the very long post
I’ve been married to my dh for ten years, together 13 and we have 2 beautiful children. We have been happy for most of that time. On the occasions in the past where our relationship has been tested, it’s been down to him. He hit me on two separate occasions early in the relationship and has texted two other women, these happened a few years apart and he always told me. Anyway on all of these times, I’ve fought hard to keep us together because we are good, we are happy and it works., I’ve buried my feelings of hurt and paranoia and kept the crazy b*tch who festers just below the surface under control for the good of our family. And it worked because for the majority of the time we were happy. We also have quite an open dialogue when it comes to sex and have talked openly to each other about fantasies etc. I told him about my curiosity of other women and he encouraged it, told me it turned him on etc. I never thought much of it but then one night while out, and I was very very drunk (it’s not an excuse, more of a reason as to why I even thought it was ok) a woman made a pass at me and I kissed her and a bit more. I hated it. It felt awful and not at all what I imagined. It lasted no more than a few minutes, that I can remember as I was very very drunk. So drunk in fact that I texted dh to tell him about it. If I had been sober I would have had the sense to realise this could hurt him, but I was a total idiot. This was in the summer, the next day he said it was fine, he understood. I told him I was disgusted with myself and I was sorry. And I was, i put it right out my mind I couldn’t look in the mirror without hating myself.

Anyway over the last few weeks/months I’ve noticed a change in our relationship, he seemed so distant and unhappy, I work long hours and I put it down to us being apart, and was hoping with Xmas coming up, spending some time together would help improve it. But I can’t keep my big gob shut, the week before Xmas I pushed him to open up and tell me what was happening. There’s been a woman in work who he has started a friendship with and I couldn’t help but notice the difference in attitude he had toward her and I was feeling very insecure.

We’ve had a few blazing rows. He finally opened up that what I did in the summer broke his heart in two, that he doesn’t think he’s in love with me anymore, that he may have feelings for this woman, and that a few months ago he was so down, so depressed over what I did that he got in the car and started driving towards a very high bridge to kill himself. By chance a song came on that we call DDs song as it was released the week she was born and he pulled off and came home. I knew nothing of this I’ve been so wrapped up in my own guilt and shame and watching him breakdown was the hardest moment of my life. He says the fact that what I did pushed him so low makes a part of him hate me. I just dont understand why he couldn’t have told me from the off that he was hurt, all of it could have been avoided but he says he wanted to be ok with it and bottled it all up.

We’ve talked lots and lots and lots. We are also in a lot of debt that we’ve been doing very well to pay off (especially with my new job) if he left, we would be financially destitute, we would probably both end up back in our parents house which is not where I want to be. I’m the family frick up, I know they love me but I also know they are only heavily involved in my life because of my kids and we need their help with childcare. I do not think they like me very much. We have decided that we are going to give ourselves until the end of March to keep working on us but also to start saving, putting every penny towards paying off the debt we had and building some kind of escape fund. We’re also going to work on rebuilding our friendship. He has been my best friend for 13 years, I have two cousins who are also my friends but I don’t see them enough to unburden myself about this very complicated situation. I feel very very sad and very lonely and isolated. Oh and Cherry on top of this monumental eton mess is that we’re still having sex. We’ve always been very good at that part and I don’t know if it’s helping. I think he feels disappointed with himself after, I see it in his eyes, but I also see rejection in his eyes when I say no I just can’t win. We've tried going cold turkey but we're both crying out for comfort, and a hug always leads to more.

I’m hoping we work through this and stay together but I’m also hoping that if we can’t then in March I can let him leave and keep my dignity in tact and my mental state stable for my kids. His parents divorced and hated each other for years, I never want to be anything like them, they are the most selfish people I’ve ever met.

Is there any hope? Am I clutching at straws here? I’m so confused and I’m so sad when he’s not here and I have no one to turn to, him and the kids are my whole life, and he is is very much in the same position

I have read so many posts over the last few days and had my post ready, but I held back. I cannot tell you how much stronger I feel, Its like a light has gone been switched on inside my head. Just the little bit of care and understanding you've given me has made a difference.

I'm going to get out of bed now, get dressed and take my daughter into town, I have no money but at least I'll be spending time with her instead of wallowing in my own self pity. Maybe I can go an hour without remembering the whole mess and feeling paralysed with fear xx

Been there with the hysterical bonding. I thought I was going insane. It wears off, dont worry.
You are also doing a kind of pushme/pullme thing. Imagine you are joined together by a metre long iron bar, so you can't touch each other. As he turns away, you follow him (the needy bit). If you pulled away, he would then chase you. But.you dont get to meet in the middle.

I'm feeling, any time alone feels suffocating and I feel as if everyone can see my hurt and fear
This sounds like the start of depression.
Please do go and visit your GP.
Your DH has always been an abusive, liar and a cheat.
You are starting to realise you deserve better but it will all take time.
But please, start putting yourself first.
You need to best version of you that you can be.
Unfortunately with a man like this in your life that will be very hard indeed.
He's bringing you down.

You've done some amazing things.
Your degree, your dream job.

So you absolutely have that in you.
Dig deep. Find that woman again.
Realise you only deserve the best.
If you have a DD, and she came to you with all of this, describing a man like your DH as her partner, what would your advice be?
Don't settle.

I want to stop feeling sad when I'm on my own

Let's start with this

Do you mean without another adult around or when you're actually alone, DD at nursery etc?

@Gina2012 Do you mean without another adult around or when you're actually alone, DD at nursery etc?

A little of both, I do focus on the kids, my daughter is 8, my son 15, and we can laugh and joke and play games and i feel happier, but I also feel like I'm lying to them by pretending it's all fake
And yes when I'm totally alone I just feel sad. I usually read to bring myself up, to relax but I can't focus on it for very long xx

*@hellsbellsmelons
*
You've done some amazing things.
Your degree, your dream job.

So you absolutely have that in you.
Dig deep. Find that woman again.
Realise you only deserve the best.
If you have a DD, and she came to you with all of this, describing a man like your DH as her partner, what would your advice be?
Don't settle.

I'm going to copy this to notes and read it when I need reminding

Thank you xx

@ISdads that's a really good analogy and actually the other day I told him to stop, I said it's too hard, you have to leave, next thing he's agreeing to give it time 'he can't make any promises but he wants us to be friends'

Why can't I always feel this sane? This aware? I know the minute I see him I'll need reminding again

@ferando81 thank you for this. I've only known manipulative men, he has been the least of them all, compared to the others he's a charmer trust me.

It's nice to know that this isn't considered normal in a mans head, that it's just these men that I end up with

I use that imagery myself to remind myself why my own relationship (just separated) was not salvageable. It took me a long time to be ready. I also had counselling via work. Your employer or union might offer this.

What was the context of the texting he did with other women? Because it's not on the same level as getting drunk and kissing someone else face to face, which is what you did. I'm not trying to make you feel bad or excuse anything he has done (not going to get into the hitting - its wrong, end of), but I think you need to take another look at how your behavior may have affected him. I really don't think it's as simple as him gaslighting you to excuse his subsequent behaviour with another woman. Remember, you physically cheated first.

The reason I say this is because when I found out about my partner having cheated on me, there was a lot of intense emotion, including depression, anger, a desire to hook up with someone else to prove I was still desirable, or just to get even, etc. I couldn't express how hurt I was and how bad it made me feel. I didn't have the words. It didn't matter what I said anyway. There was no comfort over something which had already been done.
So I can easily see how you kissing someone else could have made him question your relationship, and want something similar for himself as a comfort of sorts, which then leads to something else. It's not just gaslighting.

So .... there's a saying 'fake it til you make it'

What this means isn't to live a lie forever

It means to decide what you want - in this case to be able to feel happy with your children and no other adult and when you are totally alone - and to create a mindset in which you pretend to feel happy in these scenarios until you train your brain to automatically feel happy in these situations.

It really works

It's about rewiring your neurons.

Google The Law of Attraction and The Secret

@Madmozzie

Thank you for your balanced reply I need this just as much as the support.

The two different women he texted ended up as a sexual nature. The first one was a nurse he met on a night out, they exchanged numbers and text each other for a while, they also met for a drink and the texting was quite dirty before he stopped.

The second woman was the beginning of this year (2018) she was a girl he went to school with. They had both been in the same Cardiff rugby match abs she had messaged him on FB the day after. It started out as innocent, she knew he was married. Then when he was on a night out it turned into the 'what would you do to me if I was here' he carried it on into the morning and through his hangover as well while I was lying next to him.

He chose the moment to tell me about this second woman while we were having a night away in lodge, lying under the stars in our private hot tub. I was devastated. I'm still very upset and angry about it. With her and him. But I accepted his apology, I also accepted that I had been a bit distant. I was working long hours, in my NQT year and was very stressed and anxious over keeping up with it. This contributed to him reaching out to her I suppose.

I know what I did hurt him, I know it hurt him deeply. I pushed at the time for him to be angry with me but he kept his feelings totally hidden from me which meant we couldn't deal with it together. I don't think his claim about the suicide is a lie, I've seen the fear and devastation on his face, and I feel so sick that I was so wrapped up in work and my own worries that I didn't see he was hurting.

He says to me 'spin it round' and when I do, when I picture me in his position of being the one who's dealing with him having a drunken fumble, I don't think I'd be giving up on my marriage. I would scream and shout and cry and I would work through. He doesn't seem to want to though. He doesn't want to fight for me, for us, like I have fought in the past. I think this other woman has something to do with that. I don't think he's shagged her (yet) but I think she's opening his eyes to other options. He'd never consider leaving to be on his own.

@Gina2012

I'm a very good faker (as a teacher i have to be!) up until now I've always found the brave face easy to put on. I think that's why I'm struggling so much, I've never been this heartbroken and scared.

I'll keep faking though, little by little it will become normal xx

You're doing so much better already OP. It takes time to get into a new mindset and get over someone. But you will

Thanks for not flaming me OP.
Sounds v similar to my partner as to keeping his options open and not leaving until there was another woman to go on to. The only thing I'm surprised at is that he told you before he slept with her (if that is actually the case). I can kind of see how this could be an attempt to get his real thoughts and feelings out into the open, but this is a real mess which I don't think youll be able to solve yourselves. And tbh, I'm not sure I'd be fighting for the marriage at this stage either, given the fact that the texting was of a sexual nature, and this obviously isn't his first time looking for sexual kicks elsewhere. If he hadn't already shagged her, he probably will. Or someone else down the line. In hindsight, I'd be v reluctant to give anyone a second chance. I'm sure youll be happier without him in the long run.

@WinterSunglasses
Thank you I'm feeling much stronger 💕💕💕

@Madmozzie
I cannot fathom when he would have had chance to shag her, I think this is more of an emotional affair. In some ways that's worse for me than sex. How can I compete with someone who makes him smile and happy when I don't make myself smile and happy? At least if it's sex, I can work on that 🤦🏼‍♀️

However in my mad moments I am absolutely convinced he is shagging her behind my back and he's stringing me along so that when he leaves he's not seen as 'the bad guy' by our families (even though he says 'blame me')

Sometimes it feels genuine, other times I feel like he's stringing me along which makes me so angry because he knows what happened between me and my ex. Many years ago of course but it's starting g to feel very raw all over again.

I know everyone reading this here is getting only my side. I'm not perfect, I am emotionally distant sometimes, I dedicate myself to my career and my kids. I'm also shit at all the housework and he does a lot of it, despite him also working full time.

He is a kind, generous loyal man who has fathered my ds from the day he met him (ds was nearly 2 and has never had contact with the 'sperm donor')
He's increased my confidence a lot since we met, I've always been overweight, hated my body, he's always told me how beautiful I am (not in spite of, he actually does love bigger women)

I'm just saying all this because I want you to know that I haven't stayed with him this long through fear or anything but because I genuinely love(d?) him. Right now he's not acting like the man I love, and maybe he never will but it's very hard to let go xx

I've never been this heartbroken and scared

Bless you. I can wholeheartedly empathise. I just know you can do this. 2019 is your year

@Gina2012 thank you xxx

he's stringing me along so that when he leaves he's not seen as 'the bad guy' by our families (even though he says 'blame me')

That's exactly what I think. I don't think it's an unrealistic thought, as he won't want his bad behaviour to be seen as the cause for a break up. they always want to be seen in the best light, as evidenced by so many affairs being secret, whether emotional or not!

There might be a benefit to checking his phone/computer for evidence of an affair.

@ISdads I have thought of this but the only time I could is when he's sleeping and he uses snapchat a lot so I don't think there would be much 'evidence' I've had a look on the shared iCloud account and there are no pictures or anything of her, or pictures of anything other than our kids. I feel at this point though it's pointless as he's told me about her, it would just be an 'ok so I sort with her after you did what you did' I'm a terrible liar and would make a very bad spy so I don't want to snoop through his phone xx

Sorry that you’re going through this OP. Your situation is similar in many ways to mine 5 years ago. I felt trapped due to finances and having low self-esteem making me to afraid to leave plus I was made to believe that his actions were my fault. I finally snapped and asked him to leave. It literally was a moment when I looked at him while he was as blaming me for something and I saw him for the pathetic manilpulating twat that he was. It turned out that he had been cheating with one of these work ‘friends’ that I was apparently ‘crazy’ to suggest that there might be something going on with. I later found out it had been going on for years! It wasn’t easy financially at first but the house sold within days enabling me to be free of the marital (his) debts. I got a larger share of the equity due to the DC living with me. I had to rent for a year due to the time it took to separate myself from him financially and to rebuild my credit rating but I was then able to buy another house. I love my new house and I love my life without him. My only regret is not doing it sooner. If someone had told me that things would work out this well then I wouldn’t have wasted so much time stuck in that awful situation. The good thing about teaching is that you are so busy all the time that you don’t have time to dwell on it. I found this really helped too. Good luck 😊

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to update all you lovely people who replied and helped me so much

I decided that through the Xmas / nye period I would try to just continue as normal, the kids and my extended family had a lot planned and I didn't want to ruin it all for everyone with this upheaval.

Me and him kept talking, he promised me there was no affair and that he wanted to keep trying, work on what we have. And I felt like maybe we could. Although with her being in work, every time he was there I would have this big ball of anxiety inside me, it would come in waves and leave me feeling dizzy.

He told me to 'put her out of my head' that nothing was going on, it was all in my head. But I knew... but I continued to tell myself I was paranoid a 'psycho' fucks sake I'm so weak! 🤬

Anyway, NYE we went to his sisters, she has kids, we have kids. It makes sense to avoid the adult party's as our kids just get bored. I told him I couldn't see the New Year in with him if he knew he was leaving, he swore he was trying and that he was feeling better every day, as was I. So I went, it was ok, he was very attentive and sweet.
Then Tuesday night we watched tv together and got drunk together, and it was lovely, we just enjoyed each others company, the next day we went for a family walk... I felt we had turned a corner.

Then he went to work and when he came back and he was so distant. I brought it up this morning, and he finally admitted that she knows how he feels, she feels the same and all this fucking time since before Xmas the gaslighting bastard has been telling me I'm FUCKING CRAZY when I was right!!! They've been texting sweet fucking nothings to each other this whole time. She's his fucking boss! Can you imagine it the other way round?? The selfish prick didn't tell me because he 'knew how I would react' like no fucking way Sherlock you piece of cheating shit. He still swears there's been no physical contact, and I no longer give two shits. He can fuck her from here to kingdom come for all I care now

He's dropped this bombshell then followed it up with 'but I want you. I love you.. blah blah fucking blah' lies, all of it.

I'm now making plans to leave, I'm pulling myself together, making myself stronger before I ask my mum and dad for help. I don't want to cry over him again.

I'm just so bloody disappointed in myself that I've let another man do this to me! I'm stupidly honest with everyone and it's got me nowhere. He doesn't know I've decided to leave. He thinks I want him to choose me or her. I know the cowardly piece of shit will choose me, and then I'll tell him he can kiss my arse

I did warn him years ago you don't fuck me around. He thinks he should be scared of my dad, my dads a pussycat compared to the wave of pain I will bring him.

Thank you everyone again for your support. You opened my eyes to his behaviour and what it was doing to me. I might be forgiving him if it wasn't for you wonderful lot 😘😘

Good on you OP, you are worth more than the lying piece of shit. Don't blame yourself for being honest and transparent. We live and learn in life. Stay strong and welcome to the world of happiness this is your year girl . You have my support for that proposed wave of pain on the fucking cheat. X

I don't want to cry over him again
Sorry but you are going to!!!
A LOT!!!
Don't beat yourself up about it.
It's not necessary crying over HIM.
It's crying out of pure frustration.
At the indignity of it all.
At the lies and the deceit.
At the betrayal.
At the loss of the life you had imagined.
At the loss of everything.
At the actual physical pain you will feel when the adrenalin wears off.
And you are allowed to cry. As much as you bloody well want.
You are not a robot.
You have feelings! You are allowed to express them.

I'm so sorry he's done this to you.
Try to get some RL support as soon as you can.
You'll need it and it will be your lifeline.
Don't try to get through all of this on your own.