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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Parents- arguments and Christmas worries

16 replies

Justforonequestion · 21/12/2018 17:59

Hello

I'd welcome any advice. Earlier this year I went on a short holiday with my husband, kids, parents, brother, SIL and nephew. I'd arranged everything, found the house, done the cooking etc. We wanted to spend a few days together before my brother and his family went home (they live abroad).

My dad has a tendency to drink a bit too much at family dinners and to try to start what he would call a "debate" but is really more of a row. The subject is always either "feminism has gone too far" or "muslims all want to blow you up" so it's pretty awful. In the past I have argued against him but it's never very satisfying (drunken rows never are) and noone ever changes their minds or comes away better informed.

Anyway, as could have been predicted, this happened again. My dad started to try and begin a row about feminism. I had been worried about this and promised myself I wouldn't get drawn in, so I just explained that I didn't want to have a drunken row about it and thought that was it. However he then got very angry and started shouting that, if I wouldn't contribute, I was part of the problem (?!) So at that point I started to say what I thought but before I had got even a sentence out, he started shouting over me again. So I left the table and went to bed (my husband was already up there).

So far, so bad. Anyway, about an hour dad came upstairs, half-apologised and then started ranting about how I hadn't done the washing up before leaving. I was really upset by this point but went back to bed, only for my mum to come bursting in (to the bedroom where my DH and I were in bed with no clothes on), now also drunk, to say how horrible I was to have upset my dad. My husband asked her to leave. The whole thing was awful.

Anyway, next morning we woke up to find that my mum and dad had left and gone home (with most of the holiday yet to run). They weren't embarrassed but furious and left a nasty note. My brother was extremely upset, all the kids were upset, it was dreadful. I felt horrible that I had tried, just once, to maintain my boundaries and not be drawn into a stupid row and my parents had reacted like this.

I am basically the peace-maker in our family and so that evening I called my parents and persuaded them to come back. They did, but then my mum in particular carried on behaving terribly, ranting that I was a snowflake if I wasn't willing to join in their arguments, that I had infringed my dad's freedom of speech by refusing to listen to him etc etc (wtf?). I think this is all bonkers and a complete misunderstanding of freedom of speech on her part, but there you go. I spent the rest of the holiday basically in tears.

God. Anyway, after we had all left I received a bunch of flowers from my dad with a note saying sorry. I have no idea whether they recognise how terribly they behaved- I suspect that they still think they were in the right to be angry that I wouldn't join in their stupid row. I cannot get my head around any of it, frankly. I cannot understand why they reacted so terribly to my not wanting to join in an argument. I have seen them a few times since and things have been relatively normal but I have not forgiven them and I'm not in any sense over it.

Anyway, if you have got this far, well done. My issue is that they are coming to stay for Christmas and I am dreading it. I am so scared that they will do the same thing again. I also just wish that I didn't have to see them- I will feel so full of anger and resentment. (It's not helped by my mum's relentless low-level nastiness about everything she disapproves of, but that I can at least ignore.) I keep reading articles about "how to get on with your family at Christmas" which say "don't engage in rows, change the subject" but obviously I've tried that and it was like the whole world had fallen apart. Aaargh. I am dreading it. I don't think they could ever understand why I am so upset and I feel like my only options are to suck it up (unappealing) or cut contact (which I don't want to do).

Sorry this was so long.

OP posts:
JK1773 · 21/12/2018 18:27

OP I feel your pain. I’ve literally in the last couple of weeks realised what a manipulative, devious, toxic man my DF is. I’ve pandered to him my whole life trying desperately to gain his approval. The sudden realisation aged 43 of what he actually is has given me clarity of thought I’ve never had before and I have attempted to put boundaries in place (not working very well). It’s like my blinkers fell off.
I don’t have any practical advice for Xmas. I’m in the same boat. My DF is winding up to ruin Christmas, constantly critical of everything, everyone etc. I’m expecting a huge row. I don’t feel as apprehensive about it as previous years as I know I’ll never spend Xmas day with him again. It was too late to get out of it this year.
Can you limit alcohol or tell them beforehand which subjects are banned? I really don’t know. Difficult isn’t it?

Justforonequestion · 21/12/2018 18:30

Thanks for replying. Limiting alcohol is a good idea. Limiting subjects is tricky as they tend to start moaning about being "no-platformed", sob. I just want a bearable family occasion but it always feels like they see themselves as foot soldiers in some kind of culture war.

OP posts:
Justforonequestion · 21/12/2018 18:32

Sorry to hear that you are in the same boat. It's quite something when you realise, isn't it?

OP posts:
Riverside410 · 21/12/2018 18:34

Sounds very hard. We struggled with my late dgm and the only thing that worked a bit was to really structure the time, have friends/neighbours round if possible or go out together as she wouldn’t be so bad then. Then as she got older secret watering down of her sherry.
What does your dh think?
Can he back you up when you try and change the subject?

user10001999 · 21/12/2018 18:42

I too have similar df will start a 'debate ' and because I'm not saying yes df you are so right he looses his shit , but the thing is I'm not disagreeing with him I'm just not very vocal. so he thinks I'm against him and refuses to speak to me which is ridiculous , he started a conversation I tried to divert but ibu . It's all very hard work and I just can't be bothered with all the drama . The difference is with my df he doesn't apologise at least your df did that OP .
I don't really have any advice sorry just sympathy as I just find that I limit contact is easier. I won't be seeing my Df at Christmas , it's sad but easier if he can't be civil .

Justforonequestion · 21/12/2018 18:45

My DH was appalled by the whole thing. He doesn't get on well with them anyway (my mother in particular). He generally just makes his excuses when things get unpleasant as he worries that otherwise he will lose his temper with them.

OP posts:
Justforonequestion · 21/12/2018 18:46

User10001999, that sounds very hard.

OP posts:
StripeyDeckchair · 21/12/2018 22:22

I'd be clear now, before they arrive

  • my house, my rules and that is no arguing. If you can't respect it and us then maybe it's better if you don't come.

I ban topics of conversation with my wider family. I do it firmly and if it comes up put a stop to it straight away, usually in a light hearted way.

Nanny0gg · 21/12/2018 22:23

Why are you seeing them?

ASimpleLampoon · 22/12/2018 08:44

i have been nc for 5 years and its the best thing I ever did. i do sympathise. i know it is hard. if you want to enjoy this christmas, then uninvite them and go nc now, call the police if they harass you. if you can't stand to do this now, write off this christmas and go nc in january so you can enjoy next year. Ask them to leave if they carry on this year then go nc. You are an adult and you do not have to put up with people who make you miserable. the sooner you realise that the better. it's a great realisation to make. you have woken up to the fact your parents are awful and never going to change. there's no going back now. NC is inevitable sooner or later now so might as well do it sooner. I wish you the best of luck.

ASimpleLampoon · 22/12/2018 08:46

If they go on about freedom of speech and no platforms , tell them it's your house not an internet debating group and suggest they go home nd argue with people online if that's what they enjoy.

Hoppinggreen · 22/12/2018 08:54

Rather than “join in” ( ie validate his awful rants) could you laugh at him and treat him like a silly old man?
I generally give as good as I get in any argument/ discussion but when I can’t for reasons of diplomacy I tend to smile and shake my head and look smug. Drives people nuts but they can’t complain as you aren’t actually doing anything. An occasional complicit look at DH or an “if you say so” is also very effective . I also refuse to answer to anything that isn’t an actual question
Very PA I know and you shouldn’t have to do it but it might keep your sanity intact over Xmas

cleanhousewastedlife · 22/12/2018 09:05

Can you have a conversation with him before hand when he's sober? 'Dad, thank you for the apology and the flowers, I appreciate them because you really upset me. Can we agree not to have another argument over Christmas?' If he says no then he needn't come. By the way, the irony of a rant about feminism then telling you that you had to do the washing up....

Handprints2018 · 22/12/2018 09:19

To be honest if you are already dreading it then surely there's little point spending time together. I would limit alcohol (maybe by non alcoholic and switch it out?) And set boundries. Or better disinvite.

Do you have kids coming? If so i would disinvite otherwise their christmas will be ruined. Adults make choices to suck it up then expect kids too. As a child i hated this person ruining Christmas and never understood (still don't) how my parents allowed it.

My side love debates, one loves to have his opinions validated but hates real debate. Last time he started he was firmly told by my sister that he would be asked then told to leave. He was. It was hilarious and great all at once.

He doesn't behave any better but now he knows he will be ejected for it and rarely gets invited out.

Handprints2018 · 22/12/2018 09:21

cleanhousewastedlife i got the impression the fathers pretty antifeminism so being sexist (and lazy!) Is par for course.

LemonTT · 22/12/2018 09:31

Well if they are going to come, then don’t start argument early by setting boundaries. It will set them off. However put up the boundaries. Because you have basically become the wind up person to go to for them. By reacting and giving them their thrill. Even when you walked away. I would have closed the door. When they left, not begged them to come back and not cried the whole time.

So if you persist in this I would suggest you limit the drinking. Then avoid debates. Don’t say anything. Let him have his platform. Offer to video him and share it on YouTube so everyone gets to hear it. Then get up and clear the dishes. Put the tv on and go to bed early.

But really go LC.

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