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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

My friend's marriage and watching the car crash

28 replies

DontCallMeDaisy · 18/12/2018 12:18

I'm possibly going to come across as an arse, I hope not, I love my friend and I don't want to be a self righteous busy body.

Anyway, she's one of my oldest friends, part of a close knit group. She's probably the leader of the pack. Very strong character, quite formidable, very lovable. Earlier in the year, she confided to a couple of us that she was having marriage problems. A shock because this was the longest standing most stable relationship of all of us.

Things went from bad to worse, they went from trying to sort it out, to him wanting to leave her and the kids. It was like he couldn't stand to be in the same room as her any more.

We went through the whole OW thing, she found nothing, he could have hidden it well, who knows. He had an about turn though and they decided to do counselling and work on it. All seemed to be on the mend.

We don't all often get together with families but recently there's been a couple of events that we've all turned out to with OH's and kids. It's been a bit of an eye opener. Lovely friend constantly gives her H and kids a hard time. Lots of negative comments from her, eye rolling from kids, stone cold detached expression on her H's face. He made a comment to my DP about that being how life is nowadays. It sounds horrible, but she's done what she always feared she'd do, she was her mother. Only if her mother was on speed!

But then at the end of one of the nights, you could see after a few drinks, when all the kids had gone off, they were having fun together like old times, which was nice.

We met up at the weekend and she said things still aren't great. She knows he's unhappy but she thinks he just doesn't love her anymore.

I am not for one minute suggesting it's all her fault, and I know that when you're with someone who seems to dislike you, it can be a bit self-fulfilling and negativity can prevail. But is there anyway to say to her tactfully to maybe try and reign it in a little bit and see if it makes a difference? I should probably just butt out but I honestly don't think she realises what a taskmaster she is sometimes. And I think if she generally stopped giving them a hard time, they could all be a lot happier.

I wouldn't ever contemplate saying anything if she wasn't confiding in me that she doesn't know how to save her marriage

OP posts:
Musti · 18/12/2018 12:23

Have a chat with her. Be honest and kind. Maybe it needs someone to help her see the effect of how she treats her family.

m0vinf0rward · 18/12/2018 12:24

No man wants to be married to their mother in law!!!!!

bibbidybobbidyboo · 18/12/2018 12:26

The thing is, you DONT know what's going on behind closed doors. Maybe he's utterly dreadful to her when they're alone and that's why she's acting like this. It's hard for you to really comment because you're not
there 100% of the time. You also don't want to say anything that might cause her to kneejerk and lash out/fall out with you.

That said, given that she's asking for your advice,, I think the best thing you can do is try to turn it around and prompt some self-reflective on her part. So something like:

"Yes, I can see that you're finding it hard, I've noticed that sometimes you get negative, stressed. Have you noticed it too? Why do you think that is?"

That way you get her to open up and maybe be self-reflective about her own behaviour without you passing a judgement or making a comment that she might react badly to.

Cawfee · 18/12/2018 12:28

The problem is that you’ve only seen a snapshot. It might not be like that all the time and she might have spent years with a cold, distant H and so this is the outcome? Just tread kindly and carefully

3luckystars · 18/12/2018 12:29

Keep out of it.

If they are going to counselling then this will have come up at that. Its who she is.

Encourage more counselling but do not make any comments or give any advice yourself. DO NOT GET INVOLVED.

Original poster
DontCallMeDaisy · 18/12/2018 12:33

I really like that suggestion bibbidy and I will try that.

I know I don't know what goes one, that's why I was careful to say, I'm not suggesting it's her fault. I've heard plenty about how he has treated her - nothing abusive but very cold and mean I think.

She reported that he'd said nothing makes her happy and she won't let up and that seemed completely outrageous at the time. If somebody was cold and mean to me, I would be negative towards them too, so you can't blame her.

OP posts:
Original poster
DontCallMeDaisy · 18/12/2018 12:37

TBH, after what I'd heard I wouldn't have been surprised if they were being off with each other. It was the stuff with the kids too. Made me think it's a 'thing'.

Urgh I don't know. I probably won't say anything, she doesn't need anyone judging her. It's just hard watching something play out when you might have a bit of outside perspective that could change it up a bit. Like the title says, watching a car crash, she's desperate to save her marriage, it's sad

OP posts:
3luckystars · 18/12/2018 14:44

Did you ask her about the counselling, and how it went?

ohwellinthatcasetryprunes · 18/12/2018 15:02

I don't know if it is happening in this case, but my ex-dh was the life and soul of the party, friendly and happy - when we were out and with other people.
Everyone thought I was the grumpy one. But that's because he was vile at home all the time. He would go out of his way to be a complete bastard to me just before we went out and upset me. He'd then make constant little vicious digs all evening, while no-one else was looking of course, and be all smiles with everybody else.

Sittinginthestaffroom · 18/12/2018 15:25

I could be your friend. (I’m not). Please tread very carefully. If you said anything even hinting that my negativity was a potential cause of my failing marriage I would 1. Explode on you 2. Never speak to you again 3. Go home and cry my eyes out. You really don’t know what goes on behind closed doors. My H is the most charming person outside the house. Please be a good friend, please try to support her. Please don’t question or judge. Take her out for coffee. Ask an open ended ‘how are things’, if she wants to talk she can, if she doesn’t she can change the subject. If anyone asked prying questions to me right now I would just loose it. Keeping face/smiling for DC/ smiling at work while your world is falling down round you is hard enough without feeling like you’re being judged by someone you value and trust. Thank you x

WhyAmISoCold · 18/12/2018 21:42

It's very difficult OP. As a friend, I would want to hear the truth. Sometimes it takes someone outside pointing it out fornus to realise.

On the other hand though, you don't know why she acts like this. I admit I'm not that nice towards my DH at times. But I'm fed up. He isn't horrible or abusive at all. But I've had enough. He is too passive, not proactive, I constantly have to be on top of everything, he plods along. As a result I've mentally checked out and there is nothing left for me. And this can emerge in how I react to him.

Hopoindown31 · 19/12/2018 07:24

It is interesting. I suspect that if it was your friend's DH being negative then the reponses would be very different and certainly not assuming that it was your friend being nasty behind closed doors.

If you want to get involved, bringing it up in an open non-judgemental way is best.

Loopytiles · 19/12/2018 07:40

You only saw snapshots. Keep out of it, unless she discusses her situation with you, in which case express sympathy, ask what support would help her and perhaps encourage her to try counselling alone.

As a PP says, you saw them in company, and don’t know what happened before and after. And made some pretty nasty judgments about her. If you’ve been discussing this with friends, pretty unkind of all of you.

I would prioritise my friendship with an old friend over her cheating, staying but but “cold and mean” spouse.

I have experience of a “life and soul” partner being very different before / after social events. I avoided socialising with my or mutual friends, as found it painful, impossible to be myself (while he snapped into cheeriness, temporarily) and was on edge and upset while having to pretend to have fun. Felt like was being false and lying to the friends.

Loopytiles · 19/12/2018 07:42

Hopindown OP’s friend has, in the recent past, told her about her H’s “cold and mean” behaviour, it’s not OP guessing.

TooTrueToBeGood · 19/12/2018 07:49

If you really want to support her then don't talk to her, listen to her.

TooTrueToBeGood · 19/12/2018 08:12

My daughter has recently come out of a relationship with an emotionally abusive and controlling partner. It took time for her to break free and during that journey I watched and listened so I know exactly what was going on. Behind closed doors her partner was constantly putting her down, chipping away at her self-esteem, telling her what she could and couldn't do, huffing and puffing to get his way. She was miserable. In company, he was a different person. Life and soul of the party, full of positivity, complementing her etc etc. That drove her mad, knowing what he was really like to her, and she would often respond to his faux charm by being cold and snippy.

I don't know if that is the situation with the OP's friend but the old sayings about not judging a book by its cover and not knowing what goes on behind closed doors should never be disregarded.

LemonTT · 19/12/2018 09:35

Don’t say anything. Just listen and be positive not judgemental.

Your friend needs objective advice and help provided professionally in a safe environment. She is getting that. It may be that her marriage can not be saved. But that will be their realisation and their decision.

KaraokeKink · 19/12/2018 09:44

Lovely friend constantly gives her H and kids a hard time. Lots of negative comments from her, eye rolling from kids, stone cold detached expression on her H's face. He made a comment to my DP about that being how life is nowadays. It sounds horrible, but she's done what she always feared she'd do, she was her mother. Only if her mother was on speed!

I am not for one minute suggesting it's all her fault

That's exactly what you seem to be suggesting, to me. You say she's turned into her mother, only a worse version, a 'taskmaster', and you've said she gives her family 'a hard time' more than once, and suggested that if she 'reined it in a bit' everyone would be happier -- I would be very wary of offering any 'advice' which betrays the fact that you think her behaviour is what is primarily at fault, which is likely to be counter-productive and end your friendship.

Spaghettijumper · 19/12/2018 12:42

It sounds like your friend has put up being treated in a cold and mean way for a long time and now that she's standing up for herself things have gone tits up. I wonder if she needs to realise that as much as she might thing she wants to save her marriage, she actually doesn't? That she doesn't want to split up but in reality it would be the best thing? If she's generally a kind person and this situation is bringing out the worst in her it would suggest that she's beyond the point of bringing it back.

Whatever's going on, it's not your role to suggest she's at fault. You're her friend, your role is to talk things through with her and listen. If you ask the right questions you may find out exactly what's going on and it may help her to come to her own conclusions.

MorrisZapp · 19/12/2018 12:53

Obviously there's no socially acceptable way to say 'here, do you think you could try being less of a cow?' to your friend. There just isn't.

Sorry to be that person but if you reversed the genders here you'd get reverse replies. Nobody thinks men who snap, dictate and act negatively towards their families in public are just displaying a snapshot of their behaviour and that we should all turn a blind eye.

I'm particularly sensitive to this because my mum is absolutely ghastly to people, particularly the men she's been in relationships with (dad, stepdad). She's a loved and loving person but she's simply unable to not take out her frustrations on her spouse, and is now twice divorced.

Both exes still love and respect her, but are relieved to be free of the negativity and control.

Sorry, that's my story and not yours! Hope you don't think I'm conflating. Just saying look, women can be hell to live with just like men can. But there's no solution. You can't change anyone and you certainly can't criticise anyone.

All you can do is be there is she asks for your support.

seventhgonickname · 19/12/2018 13:02

As someone above said listen to her If she says things are not going well ask her in what way.Tell her if she needs to talk you'll be there for her but take her lead.Be a friend.

madmum5811 · 19/12/2018 13:13

My friend is a social worker, she is just like this with her OH, I think what she sees at work affects her take on life. We as friends are all waiting for the fallout. I know what she sees daily makes her feel all men are bastards

Stopwoofing · 19/12/2018 13:19

acting like that can happen when you've got a spouse you feel consistently doesn't pull their weight for whatever reason - i know i can be more stressed around the kids when my oh is being especially grumpy/helpless etc. I would bring it up though in an observable way, i know i have to consciously try and detach from the resentful feelings at times. I agree it's not ok though, she needs better stress release mechanisms.

ASimpleLampoon · 19/12/2018 13:39

Please be careful. I was really the worst version of myself in public when I was being abused, and my ex was able to put on a great persona as he had nothing to lose Not saying this is what is going on. just that you never know what's happening behind the scenes.

Loopytiles · 19/12/2018 15:44

I don’t think the posts would be all that different if OP’s friend was a man behaving like this on social occasions, where his wife had cheated, ummed and ahed about leaving, stayed but consistently been “mean and cold”.