This time next year

[Dearmumihopethingsarebetter]

The relationship I have with my mum has been in decline recently. I'm not really sure when, why or how this has happened specifically, more that over time resentments have built up, tensions have risen and we now conduct a very forced and joyless relationship.

I have read, and posted on some MN threads about difficult mothers. I empathise with many other posters and recognise lots of narcissistic traits, however before I make any decisions about no or low contact I feel that I need to give our relationship one last attempt at reconciliation. I need to know I've given it my all before potentially walking away. Also, as I have three daughters of my own, I need to be confident that I can contribute to a positive mother/daughter relationship. I currently live in fear that my dds will feel this way about me in years to come!!

So, I'm giving it a year. In the next year I hope to rebuild and re-shape our relationship. I'm going to log my efforts here, possibly to share with her next year if I'm brave enough! I'd value people's honest opinions too as you know, perhaps I am contributing to this mess but I just can't see it.

Why do you feel that you need to give your relationship one last attempt at reconciliation at all?. Examine your reasons far more closely. Look too at your role/s in your family of origin. If you have siblings were they treated differently to you?.

You would not want to maintain a forced and joyless relationship with a friend would you?. Your mother is no different here and you have no evidence to suggest that she has at all changed from the person she was when you were a child.

Deal properly with your own fear, obligation and guilt here as many adult children of narcissists have all three in spades.

There is nothing to rebuild or reshape here; it is really NOT possible to have a relationship with a narcissist, it really is not.

Re this part of your comment:-
"I'm going to log my efforts here, possibly to share with her next year if I'm brave enough"

Post your thoughts here by all means but in the name of all that is good, do not share this at all with your mother!!!. It will be used by her against you as further evidence in her head of your own supposed shortcomings. Its ready made ammo for her to use.

Would really not bother with one last attempt at reconciliation; there is no reconciliation with narcissists and its a bit like walking into the lion's den. Its an open invite from you for her to say to you, "come closer so I can hurt you again". You are reasonable and she is not, you cannot reason with the unreasonable and like all toxic people she has never apologised nor has accepted any real responsibility for her actions.

Many adult children of narcissists fear that they will become like the narcissistic parent; its a fear that is more often than not groundless. You are a separate person from your mother and you have in all likelihood never treated your DDs in the ways in which you were treated as a child by your mother. You are not going to become a narcissist because you have two qualities your mother lacks; empathy and insight.

Would suggest you read the website entitled Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers and post too on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages.

You do not mention your dad at all; is he still around?.

Sorry I do realise I haven't given a lot of context. I'm really mindful of not clouding mine, or anyone else's judgement with too much background info so it may get a bit drip-feedy (apologies in advance) if background is relevant to the current situation but ultimately I want to focus on my actions from here on in.

So, the current situation is that me, dh and 3 dds are all going to visit this weekend (mum lives 90 miles away so not too far, but visits aren't as regular as she'd like). I spoke to her last night over FT and I could definitely feel a frosty breeze! Christmas is a contentious issue (this year in particular but actually, it's problematic every year) as we're spending it with DHs family.

When I suggested we visit this weekend, mum made an issue of it 'not being Christmas' and therefore we wouldn't do anything festive. However as she'd said that back at half term whilst we were having quite a row, I'd hoped she'd mellowed. However last night when I asked if we could bring anything she said 'why would you? It's not a special occasion. It's just like any other visit'.

So, I'm not going to push festivities on her if that's not what she wants but I'd like to make it a nice visit and special in some way - just haven't decided quite how yet!

Attila thank you for taking the time to post, I really appreciate the support.

The trouble is, as I read your post I end up thinking 'but what if she's not a narcissist? What if she is just a bit sad and lonely?'

I will certainly take a look at the website you suggest. I do look at Stately Homes but always end up thinking my mum is not nearly as bad as some of the posters' experiences and that again makes me doubt myself. Although I think in part it's because my mum is not a vocal narcissist - silent treatment is her modus operandi and I'm unsure if that fits the narcissist model?

Yes dad is around but works away for long stretches and their marriage is over in all but name. He will be there this weekend but hasn't been around for a while - the only words that will pass between them are 'cup of tea?'

You remind me of my brother. He spends his life finding my mother irritating and offensive (because she is both plus many other shitty personality traits) then gets the guilt and tries to make her into the nice mother he has always craved by doing nice things for her.

Sometimes he pulls out the 'she's just a sad and lonely old lady' line, but he is purposefully ignoring the previous 40 years where she has behaved like a selfish, vindictive, nasty piece of work.

If I were you I'd put the money you were going to spend doing something nice for your mum into breaking free through therapy.

FWIW I still see my mum and pretend to like her. She doesn't deserve it but I do it out of obligation. But I have learnt that it is her, not me and to do what suits me best as she will never put me first.

Oh gosh mrsbob yes! I do get the guilts despite being near constantly irritated and/or offended. But rather than try to do nice things to turn my mum into the version I've always wanted I actually think I try and do stuff to make me more into the daughter she wants.

She would love a closer relationship - more time together, more in depth conversations, a more relaxed and easy atmosphere - but I'm finding myself avoiding contact because things are becoming so strained.

She commented recently that she used to love coming to visit us and felt really relaxed, safe and happy at our house but now she feels uncomfortable and like me and dh have our own private conversations and exclude her. She's absolutely right that things aren't as easy as they once were. My husband finds it increasingly difficult that she's so resentful of his family and we both find that there are so many unsafe topics (eg we would find it hard to talk about a weekend we'd spent with my in-laws as my dm would be so jealous. She wouldn't say so in as many words but we can just tell from her tone, body language and lack of interest). I can't bear that anyone would feel like this in my house!

Thank you again both for taking the time to reply. It's really giving me some food for thought but I'm definitely not there yet with the no contact. But what I might be able to work towards is more acceptance of my own feelings, particularly the guilt.

We survived the weekend!

Mum did surprise me by suggesting something fairly festive on Saturday - I felt this was an olive branch of sorts. I really enjoyed seeing my dad as I haven't seen him for almost a year. I felt that the atmosphere was more relaxed than I'd expected (dh disagreed - he is still astounded by the dysfunction! but goes to show how relative things are - I thought they were ok because they weren't awful whereas he sees a group of people in a room desperate to be anywhere else!)
I've suggested a few things in the new year that we can do with my mum - trying to get some dates in the diary so she feels included.

However I can't ignore my overriding feeling of relief that the visit is done. Me and dh also agreed on the way home that we need to protect our dds from the dysfunction without effecting their relationships. We think that doing things more on our terms - visits to our house or taking mum away or on day's out - will work better as we'll still be setting a good example of functional family life.

I have to start saying 'no' more often and going 'non-involvement'. I'm feeling incredibly anxious tonight about something that's probably nothing (mum asking for contact details of distant relative but not telling me why she needs to contact them. I barely know this person and she could have asked lots of other people before asking me so it makes me feel uneasy about why she's bypassed these others). On reflection I need to just say no so I don't feel embroiled with whatever is going on. I try to live my life drama free (as much as possible anyway!) and I feel tonight like I'm involved in a drama without knowing what or why. I don't actually want to know but I do know that if I just say no to being involved even in an indirect way then I'm protecting myself from worrying about it.

I think that it's a good idea to say no; she can get the contact details from someone else.
It seems like you're giving her an awful lot of headspace. Can you try and mentally disengage from her a bit more?
Maybe try therapy, and work on becoming separate from her, emotionally.

Thanks scabbyhorse - yes, I think I'm realising that although I thought getting more involved for a year would be the answer I realise that the problems run deeper than just spending time together. Last night I just needed to switch my brain off and disengage from something that shouldn't have been a big deal but because of the emotional baggage attached, had my heart racing and mind whirring. I think I need to add, in fairness to my mum, I suspect if asking for the number wasn't for completely altruistic reasons, that it had something to do with my brother. He lives his life on the edge of shadiness but can do no wrong in my mum's eyes. So perhaps some of my issues are with him rather than her?
Anyway, I did get to sleep last night and feel much more clear headed after a good sleep.