No 'relationship' as such

[Outofphase]

Hi everybody, I'd quite like a few opinions from both women and men....

My wife and I have been married for 6 years now and have 2 sons. Both pregnancies were difficult fr my wife and although I tried to support I think her mental state was affected and she had several tears which as left her very concerned about her 'smell' and having sex.

My concern now is that when ever I approach anything regarding contact (I don't mean sex before anyone thinks that's my concern), it's like ive asked for somethig ridiculous. We have no physical relationship and I have spoken to her about my concersn back in the summer and she hasn't mentioned anything since.

I've tried suggesting counselling and starting things slowly with dates and such but it's just thrown back.

Has anyone been through a similar thing?

Any help would be brilliant, thanks.

Was she offered any post partum counselling by the hospital? It sounds like she might well have PTSD as a result of traumatic birth(s). She may also have PND. Is she getting any medical treatment?

She has been offered some as part of the aftercare.
She has seen a physio to try and help with the situation but she doesn't try the exercises.

Is she afraid of another pregnancy? Because that soon sets libido to zero.
How old are the children? Does she have pain? I can’t orgasm properly since dc was born.
Is she tired? Does she constantly have a baby or toddler attached to her? And finally the classic question of do you fairly split household, childcare duties etc.
Traumatic births take a lot of getting over, her body has been through a lot and it’s very difficult mentally to come to terms with. It’s a long process.

Sadly - it happens and there isn’t much to can do but wait.
Seems like your kids are still pretty small and it’s all quite recent.

It can take a long time for the woman to start getting her libido back - especially after traumatic births - plus with other factors weight gain and loss of body confidence; tiredness from relentless new babies demands...

Pushing her won’t change much and might make things worse.

So - sorry. Nothing helpful to advice here but wait, if you can.

Can you be upfront and say that you don’t want sex, just affection? She may be worried that affection is leading to sex so pulls away

Ever since having kids and especially since them being toddlers I find it very hard to let myself go.... because at the back of my head is the idea one of them might wander in and that kills all passion. A lock on the bedroom door has helped us. But as others have said, I think you need a conversation and for it to be clear that your starting point isn’t hanging off the chandeliers, that you just want affection. Don’t underestimate the reality of being “touched out” for her too, mine aren’t little babies anymore (2 and 4) but I find that a real issue. Someone’s always clambering on me, so once they’re in bed I really relish my own physical space.

Why are people talking about libido? He explicitly says he's not after sex. The problem by the sound of it is that she's not letting him touch her in an affectionate way, period.

I second what Blonde said - have you explained you don't want sex at all, and simply want to hold her hand, or stroke her back, or have a kiss every now and again simply because those things are important to you, even if they don't lead anywhere?

Six months is a long time for this to be continuing. If she refuses to talk about it then you don't have many options apart from transitioning from "Yeah, take all the time you need" to "This is actually now damaging our relationship" conversations. She needs to understand that it's not sustainable for you to continue in the very long term with no physical contact. That isn't what you signed up for. If there's a problem, it needs addressing, not avoiding, and it's not right that you're doing everything you can to help, but she's not engaging with you. Couples should work on stuff like this together.

Sethis

People are talking about libido because w/o it coming back Op’s W won’t move to change something....

And - even if Op would say - it’s not about sex, it’s just touching and closeness - we all know (and his W) too, that he is trying to solve the big issue with small steps.
So - it is about sex, really...

As to telling W - what Op signed up for or not. Really?
Did his W signed up for traumatic pregnancies and birth?
Two can play this card.

Marriage isn’t a licence, or a guarantee of defined frequency of sex. She doesn’t owe it to you.
She needs to be in a place to want it herself, not force it with threats of relationship being affected.

But on your side - OP - if lack of sex has become unbearable - I’d do the honest thing and tell her you want to open up your marriage, at least until she gets her mojo back.
Affair (FWB-type) is another route that happens in such situations.
This is MN and here people would say - leave rather than that.
I am less judging for this situation. Open marriage is better, obviously. But if that’s not possible - and your want to preserve your family - than it’s a mean.

we all know (and his W) too, that he is trying to solve the big issue with small steps. So - it is about sex, really...

Um, or he could actually just want to hold his wife's hand. Flat. Because men can want that, without even thinking about putting their penis in the woman in any way shape or form. Wanting to be able to kiss your partner isn't just a stop on the train tracks to "Sex Central". It's a fairly integral part of any relationship in it's own right.

You're painting this as something sexual when that isn't what the OP has said. In fact he's said the complete opposite.

As to telling W - what Op signed up for or not. Really?
Did his W signed up for traumatic pregnancies and birth?
Two can play this card.

Traumatic and complicated pregnancies are an unfortunate accident, that are nobodies fault. The OP did not cause those problems. They were biological and unavoidable.

However the DW refusing to even address or talk about her conscious decision to rebuff non-sexual physical affection from her husband IS a choice that she has made. Her voluntary actions are causing damage. You can't compare the two.

Your concern is contact for your own sake...maybe her concern is her mental and physical health. Just wondering if you can share her concern (and that may just be listening to her concerns without trying to solve anything), it may make her more able for physical contact.

But only do it because you care, not because you just want physical contact.

Honestly I found my dh getting stuck in with washing up, minding the kids far more of a turn on than a date. And the more of a break I got, the more energy I had for other things. A back rub was always nice too.

However doing any of the above in the expectation of sex always backfired.

@Sethis

‘ her conscious decision to rebuff non-sexual physical affection from her husband IS a choice that she has made’

I was that woman after birth/PND.... Libido went, no desire for any adult touch, etc. And NONE of that was a choice.
It just happens. It’s how you feel.
Having baby/babies - I found extremely draining on all levels, physical was one of them. I was in a survival mode.

And at that time all physical affection felt like a hope and a nudge toward sex. Irrespective of what H said.
(And I do think it’s disingenois to say it wasn’t. In the end - OP or any other man wouldn’t say they’ll be OK with no sex, and just holding hands)

I just didn’t not want to he touched. Period. And - frankly - just like the OP’s need to want to touch - his W’s need to NOT want it is to be respected.

My H complained and demanded, wanted me to ‘fix myself’ - and looking back it was one of the things that eventually lead to us growing apart. Well, my side of it.

He was forever trying to make me feel guilty for not wanting something I didn’t want. I am a strong person - so it didn’t work, it just made me resent him and see him more as a needy child and less as a man (which was key to getting my libido back). And I already had needy children - they needed food, and comfort, and care... They were babies.
So - his needs couldn’t be a priority.

It was beginning of the end.

It could be that she is so "touched out" by having small dc that any kind of touching from her partner, whatever the intent, feels repulsive, like an imposition.

OP, I would try to talk to her at a calm time or arrange a session of relationship counselling (organise babysitter etc yourself) with her and discuss what is going on in a non-blaming way.

And did you say any of this to him? Did you say everything you just said in that post? Or did you just keep pushing him away with no explanation? I would assume the former.

If you explained how you felt, and you talked about it, and he kept pushing and demanding, then that's on him.

However if you didn't talk about it, you didn't explain, and you didn't tell him how you felt, then that's on you.

To be clear, I'm not in any way saying that the problem doesn't exist, or isn't serious. I'm not saying that PND is a choice.

I'm saying that refusing to communicate about the problem is a choice, and a bad one.

Sethis

Today - looking back at it all - I can explain what was going on and it seems clear...
Back then it was a blur.

Lack of sleep, constant worrying about babies being OK... Body looking and feeling foreign...
And ‘communicating’ with H - about something my body didn’t need - was last on priority need.

All I wanted was a bit if peace and quiet. Sleep - uninterrupted - in a quiet room was an unreachable dream....

So - was it all on me to be above it all and be able to snap otbif it and find a logical clear explanation?
Maybe
But a grown man who knew me well and had eyes, and wasn’t as affected by hormones as I was at the time. It was on him too.
He chose to prioritize expressions of his needs.

And - moreover - I think he didn’t realise - that it’s not an automatic thing with women’s desire. It’s not a duty thing.
I needed to find him attractive, and that attraction wasn’t just there because we were married. It needed to be fed. Couldn’t be asked for / demanded.