Deliberating my options.

[Lighthouse83]

I’ve read numerous posts on here over the last for weeks, which all in some way relate to my circumstances. But I thought I would try put all these pieces together on one post, I apologise for it’s length and if it’s unclear in some ways.

My DP have been together 5years. When we met he had 3DC all under the age of 2. We waited 4months before I met them and 8months before they moved into my home. Contact is Every long weekend, and I play a huge part of their every day life, collect from school, take to hobbies, etc. This arrangement works for us all, including DPEX.

We don’t, and have never argued on really any scale. We seem to always agree on everything, or know how to compromise. We compliment each other’s careers, and offer support. I might be looking at my life through tinted lens, but everyone agrees our relationship was perfect, and that we matched in every way.

Recently things have got strained to say the least in our relationship. From a romantic perspective, we no longer show affection, or have sex. Without going into too much detail (for length purposes) my DP has taken up a new hobby, which seems to encounter a trip to the pub every week night, meaning he seems to out a lot of the time. Conversations about real life situations, are also dismissed unless I nag for a response.

There is a couple of scenarios which I’ve considered:
First OW. I’m aware this is the first point of call, most of MN will suggest. But I’ve checked his phone log, there isn’t anything untoward. Plus when he says he somewhere, he generally is.

Secondly we have just fallen out of love, lost the spark (as some seem to say) and are more co-parenting / best friends.

Lastly, he’s grieving. 4months ago DP lost his nana, who was also his best friend. He never spoke or confided emotionally with anyone but her. As a child she was there, and unlike his parents always had time for him. He spoke with her every day.

My gut instinct is grief. My conclusion is that he has lost that emotionally release and reassurance he had from his nana, and is now struggling to love. I’ve spoken to him, but he says all is fine, but I know it isn’t.

I don’t want to walk away from my relationship, if my DP is suffering. Not only could this make matters worse for him, but I would also loose my best friend, DP, 3DSC in all my family. All this close to Christmas, which for my own MH I don’t want to do.

I’ve tried speaking about counciling, but these seemed to be rejected. I’ve tried just ignoring the situation, it works, but then I break down and cry.

I feel like I need to give him a wake up call, and bring the romance back in to our relationship to save it. I don’t want to pack his bags, which some may suggest, as I’ve got 3DSC to think about, and he / they would have no where to go. Also if this is grief, I would worry how he would cope with them, (which I know will get me some criticism from MN) and if this does all work out to be happy ever after, these few weeks apart would hurt and confuse such small DC.

I’m just reaching out for a bit of support I suppose?

So it's just you and him in the house Monday - Friday (or thereabouts) and he ups and goes to the pub on his own? Doesn't he ask if you want to come with him? Do you mean he goes to the pub after the hobby? And the hobby is every single weeknight?

I'd be SO tempted to nip into the pub and see what was really going on.

Really, though, he moved himself and the children into your home far too quickly. It sounds as though emotionally he's moved on from your relationship without considering where he'd live. That is his problem, though.

The hobby is pool. So he plays it in the pub. For the last 8 weeks there has been a competition running in our area, so he’s either been playing or practising 2/3nights per week. Then 3nights /week the DSC are here and the remaining is usually us, or us doing work which we need to get done for the businesses.

I know he’s in there doing what he’s doing, because of the competition updates.

I think the timing just seemed right for us both and the DSC when they all moved in. It gave them stability, plus the house was bigger, nicer area, and it just worked. I dont have any DC so we didn’t need to consider that. He still had his house, but they started staying one night, then two, and gradually all the time so we sold the other property, to free up money for the business. He’s not named on my mortgage etc though.

Hang on a second. He goes to the pub to play pool (which is NOT a hobby, ffs!) while you are at home with his children?

Are the businesses shared, legally? Did his house money fund anything of yours?

Of course pool is a hobby. It's not a bloody job, is it?

OP I think it's most likely from what you describe that he's having an emotional crisis brought on by grieving for his Nana, or more accurately from suppressing his grief for his Nana. It sounds like she was the one emotionally safe and supportive person throughout his childhood and adult life, and now that's been ripped away from him.

Sounds like his parents may have punished him (emotionally) for expressing his emotions? "Don't be silly, you're not sad", "Don't be afraid, that's for girls", "Stop bloody crying, there's nothing wrong with you", "I'll give you something to cry about in a minute", etc.

I might be massively projecting here... but his lack of emotional engagement with you and his DC and him taking "refuge" in a blokey, banterish atmosphere (I'm assuming - pub pool teams tend to be 90% male IME) is due to his fear of being asked to open up. He's afraid that if he takes the lid off his feelings of grief, fear and pain, he'll never get it back on again.

Where you go from here though, I don't know. It's VERY hard to help someone who refuses help and insists they are fine, when you know damn well they are not.

NotTheFordType
Thank you so much and I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.

Pool is a hobby, he plays for many different league cups. Which is similar to football, cricket, or other sports.

Yes, his childhood wasn’t great. He was a troubled child, with adhd and other related problems which meant growing up was tough. He didn’t feel like his parents supported, and they just made matters worse. His nana however was there through the tough times and the bad, he speaks on how he wouldn’t be the person he is today with out. Whilst he sees his mum, and still speaks to her, they don’t have a close relationship.

There are 3 businesses. Firstly he has his own firm of contracting type work, this is solely his own. Secondly my business is a professional service. Both businesses support each other, in sometimes things bound by terms of contract. Yes, these contracts will end, and we can divide them. (Sorry it’s hard to give an indication of the circumstances without naming the jobs). The money from the sale of his house enabled his business to grow, to a point where my line of work was required, which then gave me the opportunity to set up on my own using the opportunities his business developed.

Our third business is joint, and is independent to the other lines of work.

I don’t know where to go from here? I’m pretty certain that he needs help, but he won’t admit this. The “lads” down the pub don’t speak about real life, it’s all football scores, work, pool etc. Which is the reason I think this is become addictive, if his nana was here I would of turned to her, as she is the only person that he would listen to.

My DP and I went through a very difficult period after his DM died suddenly, DD was born 3 months after and it was a lot for him to cope with. He started spending a lot of time out of the house and would engineer any opportunity to go out on his own to the pub to chat to strangers where he could avoid real life. I think that going to the pub to escape appeals to men in a way it doesn't to women as they aren't socialised to express their emotions, DPs friends were absolutely useless at supporting him and most disappeared for a long while when he was grieving so he distracted himself with people who hadn't hurt him. He only got better when he started seeing a therapist, and then was able to function in real life properly again and crucially talk about how he was feeling. Your DP is going to have to confront and deal with his grief eventually, one way or another and he needs to do it before your relationship (which I'm sure he values greatly when thinking clearly) disintegrates. And avoiding time at home is sure to make living feelings evaporate. Grief can make people act very strangely, and while it doesn't excuse poor behaviour it does mean that there is a possibility to work through it and be happy again. Could you persuade him to get some talk therapy? No point trying with the NHS unfortunately but there are many private counsellors who deal with grief.

How long was he with the Ex? 3 dc under 2 and he walked away does say something about him and how he deals with relationships. You and him also moved on very, very quickly so it's natural for the romance part of a relationship to end.

If he has just started to withdraw following his nana's death then it is fair to leave him to process his emotions and it could take a year.

However you seem to have "panicked" and assume he has checked out which suggests you are feeling insecure and perhaps the change isn't related to bereavement. A partner can be absent most evenings due to work or family and you could still feel connected but that doesn't serm to be the case for you.

A difficult childhood for men seem to cause relationship in later life due to attachment disorders..an inability to form strong bonds.Do you feel he has moved on?

Thanks silkpyjamasallday.
I think this sounds similar, and it is tough. However I think he talks to his friends, as that’s who he’s with. But when I say talk, I think it’s lad banter and nothing more. I believe he needs to see a therapist, but he doesn’t accept that at the minute, and obviously it’s his decision to make. We could afford private too, so financially this isn’t an issue. But I don’t know how I can get him to see that it’s what we need, before it’s too late?

I really don’t see how this can be salvaged when he won’t talk to you or consider counselling.

I’m sorry to say, but he saw you coming. Three kids under 2 (do you mean 2 and under? Cos otherwise the maths don’t fit. Even so, I’m guessing he had very close to a newborn when you got together? were you the OW!), you provided a home for them all (to give stability? Huh? Why wasn’t he, their dad, providing that?) so he could sell his house and make money from that, he leaves you with tonnes of childcare for children that aren’t yours and you’ll have zero claim to when you split up, and on top of that in five years you haven’t even married!

I doubt even the mother of these kids would put up with how he’s used you (with your consent of course), so he’s hit jackpot really as he gets to have his kids housed and cared for and fed while doing the bare minimum by a woman who for some reason puts up with it all. I bet his ex had enough of his shit and wouldn’t have tolerated this.

You really are better off walking away OP and focusing on developing your own life instead of what’s happened over the past five years which is basically you being drafted into someone else’s established life with no security, no investment in these children in the long run, and being a skivvy while he’s playing pool most nights.

The breakneck speed at which the two of you went from meeting to moving in with three small children including what surely must have been a newborn is backing up my take above btw. It’s not like a not ideal situation slowly developed into something meaningful despite the challenges. He found you pretty sharpish.

People don’t respect doormats

I hope you’re right OP, that this is just him grieving for his grandmother.
But I wonder if he has installed you as housekeeper/nanny for when his DC visit, and is now enjoying a bachelor lifestyle down the pub.
What happened to his marriage? Why did he and the ex break up,with three small children involved? How long were they together?
I think you’e entitled to some answers from him about how he sees your relationship and where he thinks it’s going.

He sounds a bit like my brother in law, who has really struggled with the constraints of traditional masculinity while dealing with mental ill-health. He is a lot better at articulating his feelings and his needs now, but it has taken several suicide attempts and more than a decade of work to get to where he is today. (I think the fact that he has a sympathetic and clued up female manager has made a big difference actually.)

Anyway, I think that grief counselling is probably the thing to focus on. Can you perhaps get some materials on counselling and coping with grief and leave them lying around where he’ll see them when he has a quiet moment ? (The loo for example ! ). I think the idea of going to see a counsellor is a big deal when you come at it cold, but a lot of the time it can seem less intimidating if you’ve read a bit about grief and the psychological impact it can have.

I wouldn’t get into a big confrontational situation about it though, you would risk pushing him even further into his defensive mentality.

Lifebegins50
DP and his EXDP split when she was pregnant with the twins, before she found out she was expecting. They had been separated approx 18-20months when we met. But the relationship was finished way before. I’ve had this confirmed by family.

I don’t think he walked away from his 1DC at the time, without great consideration. EXDP had also been cheating, so it was her actions which tore the relationship apart. That being said, he was well and truely over their relationship when we met, and I never for one minute have ever thought their where feelings still.

His behaviour changes now, have all been consistent with the timing of the passing of his nana. Things prior to this where great, and since that day have slowly got worse. Which is why I’m pretty confident I’m coming to the correct conclusion, although it doesn’t solve / make up for it.

I don’t feel he’s moved on from me, nor do I think that I’ve checked out. I think the out every night I could put up with, it’s the emotionally / romantic checking out which is hurting me. As I don’t feel the love from my partner that I once did?

My advice is based on the fact that you seem to be asking for advice relating to his recent change of behaviour rather than fundamentally your relationship / past / living circumstances. If you think those are relevant I can broaden out to comment on those too though !!

It's good that he has this outlet to meet friends. But, it's probably a little too much. Would you ask him to agree to give up one of the nights of pool, so that you can have a date night?

To confirm...
3DC under 2.
When we met his eldest DC was a few days away from his 2nd birthdays.
Then he had twins, which his ex had got pregnant with almost straight away, and that where born at 23weeks.

DP split with his ex before she knew she was pregnant. She was sleeping with other men, going out every night, and not being the responsible mother she should have been. Their feelings for each other has gone. She had the twins, he supported her, but that was it. All contact is now through a solicitor and a DNA has confirm they are his.

Yes it was quick. But I didn’t meet the DCs straight away. When I did I just played with them, and took no parental responsibility. When they did move in, he retained his house for a few years, to make sure he didn’t loose the security for the DC. I never did any of the duties, of babysitting, nursery drops offs etc. He did all that, and financially paid for everything for them. Yes I would cook meals, but I’m making my own, not just going to ignore that they are there. It took a good 2-3 years before he left them alone in my care, to go to a friends birthday, or attend a football match. He fully understands that I’m not the childminder, but over time of course I’m going to take some parental responsibity as a step parent.

These evenings that he is out currently are when the SDC are at their mums, so he isn’t leaving me alone with them. Yes I’m doing the school drop offs / collection but I have done for the last 18months, because of our work arrangement, and this is the SDC routine.

But all (some) of this is besides the point

Thank you JennyHolzerGhost

Yes my OP is mainly about his grief, and how this is affecting our relationship. And is there anything I can do to help him / our relationship.

I will try and get some leaflets. I’ve already got a notebook, which I use to communicate things. For instance questions over Christmas access arrangements, presents, the business? Are all things I need him to consider, but any talk of ‘real life’ seems to make him want to go to the pub. I thought if I write them down in a notepad, he can read and discuss in his own time. Rather than feel confronted when he walks in the door.

It’s very difficult. I expect that his nan was the person he went to to figure out what he was feeling. Without her he’s probably struggling to process his emotions.

I think maybe it might also be worth posting a new thread focused on asking for advice re grief etc.

I'm not sure if I've misunderstood, but he's only doing his hobby 2-3 x per week. Then he spends the other 4-5 nights with you (and kids when they're there). Lots of people have hobbies that take them out in the evenings some or most nights. Is his absence actually the problem, or the wider relationship (and this coincides)?

No you’ve not missunderstood.
DSC are here Friday - Monday. But then as soon as they’ve gone he’s out for the next 3nights, (mon/tues/we’d) 2 I put my foot down. Then on Thursday to his other hobby. But I do like on a Thursday too.

But it’s not just the going out, I just the hobby is being used as a cover up of real life. It’s the emotional / romantic aspect of our relationship which is suffering. We aren’t having sex, hugs feel forced etc. Talking about real life isn’t an option either. As soon as mention childcare arrangement, what shall we get SDC for Christmas, he’s out the door. When he’s here, he just watches pool on his phone. (Yes this is what he is doing, the sound of pool balls rings in my head)

I had to issue DH an ultimatum to get therapy/counselling. It worked and I was utterly desperate and had planned to leave the marriage if he didn't TRY and sort his issues out.

@RandomMess
That’s what I think is needed, but don’t want to push if it’s too early. But also don’t want it to be too late.

My take on his behaviour, is grief. But it may be something else, as said in OP.

Could I ask... was your DH grieving? Did therapy work? How long did you leave it before you dished the ultimatum?

No it wasn't to do with grief.

We had been together 8 years or so at this point with 3 DC together. He completely withdrew emotionally, denied there was anything wrong - proper gaslighting in the end until he made me ill.

I told him it was over, after a week (!) he had an epiphany and asked me to reconsider that was my condition. It has taken 3 years to repair the damage it caused for me. I wish I had put my foot down much much much sooner!