Suspect partner suffer from vulnerable NPD - any advise..

[Nitro]

Hello,

I am here wondering if anybody has any first-hand experience of a relationship with somebody suffering from NPD - Vulnerable NPD ( not Grandiose )

I have been with my partner for 8 years, with 2 children.

I suspect my partner suffers from NPD, although she would never admit it.

I won't go into all the details here, but her main traits are "never ever to blame / accept responsibly", changes the past / truth all the time to suit, especially if she has done something wrong, Gaslighting, lies, constant need to attention off all her friends and other males... Yet if somebody doesn't show her attention / wrongs her, then she basically disowns them..She has a couple of friends who always talk about themselves or their issues, and she will not even read their messages for days.. Yet she lives on her phone, constantly messaging other people.

The biggest cause of our rows is always the "i want" attitude. If she gets an idea in her head that she wants something, the atmosphere is bad for days, unless she gets her way.. i.e. i want a new car ( but would want it that day or tomorrow), i want a new carpet, I think we need a new Sofa, - if i try and reason / ( then argue ) against her "want" with basic rational ( usually financial ) , i am called a controlling bully..

She loves affection, but rarely offers any back, unless prompted / asked.. She would happily ask for a neck or leg massage every night, but would never ever think of say " do you fancy one tonight"

I always thought a narcissist was the "look at me me me" type of person ( Grandiose - which is not her at all ) , and it was only when i started to look into the "lack of blame acceptance" etc, that i started down a path of webpages to read up on the vulnerable type NPD..

I love my partner, and she is a great mum.. But now that i have started to read up on this, i am aware of how many little "lies" she tells and how she will say one thing one minute, but something different 2 hours later.. ( it actually really messes with your head, as she will never admit she said / didn't say it and you double yourself ).. I am now at the point where I email myself "notes" if we have a row, so I have reference when she changes the story -for my own sanity.

And from a day to day basis, i know it's always only a matter of time until the next irrational "i want" surfaces, or the next "your fault blame" argument arises...

Does anybody here have any personal experience with a relationship with someone venerable NPD . I have read that it is difficult for people with NPD to change..

Thanks

I pity you. She does sound grandiose as well. She always has to get what she wants, her needs (massage) are always more important than yours.

Im sorry, but I don't know how you can live with someone like this. How is your own mental health?

I'm presuming you give in all the time for a quiet life. What is this doing to you?

Hi,

Never used to give in, hence lots of rows..

We went to counselling for a few reasons, including the rows and it was then that I realised about the "blame" - basically she blamed the last 8 years of rows on me and how bad I had treated her..

Since then, we have been getting on great, but because I am bending over backward to avoid a row.. I will discuss with the councillor on our next session, but just wondered what other peoples experience was.

thanks

She won't be a great mum if she has NPD I am afraid. she will be messing with your kids' heads too. Please open your eyes to this and try and help and support your children. I am still having therapy in my 50s because of my mum who has narcissistic processes. She probably looked like a great mum superficially too!

So you give in and she's happy. This isn't sustainable. There is no cure for personality disorders. She needs to want to change and it is very unlikely she will want to.

Agree that any children you have will become bargaining tools. I'd think long and hard about tying yourself with a child with a woman with NPD.

You should consider counselling on your own to work out why you would accept a partner like this.

What are her good points?

Do research on the affects on children (scapegoat, golden child etc) and the enabler. Which at the moment you are in danger of becoming.

If your children are under 8 they will be safer until they start to form and voice their own opinion. Then the affect on them with get worse.

Certainly do counselling on your own but be wary of a councillor who don’t understand toxic relationships and advocates stay in contact at all costs.

Child of narc mother (that sounds similar to your wife) and enabler father.

I second that, she won't be a good parent. You are an adult and can't handle it without professional help... imagine your 2 kids?!

You can't win with NPD.

Hi,

Sorry for the delay.. I have googled the whole golden child / scapegoat etc and at the moment I don't see it.. She is a great mum to our kids, and the only thing I could even ever pull her up on, is sometimes she has a tendency to spend too long on her phone when she is with them ( social media / internet etc ) - apart from that, I can honestly say I cannot see any negatives in the way she treats them.. Its frustrating, as she offers very little affection to me, but plenty to our children.. So this has now got me thinking, does she have NPD traits or am I reading into the negatives above and assuming they are NPD..

We have been having couples counselling because she had an emotional affair with a work colleague.. although in her head the story has now changed - "it wasn't an emotional affair, it was just 2 work friends having a bit of banter / flirting"..

the councillor is away of these traits, and did agree she has some "cluster B" type traits, but hasn't given a proper answer on if she feels it is NPD.... I asked if we should bring it up in a meeting, but was told that wasn't wise..

Any thoughts...

thanks

If she does have it, there is no way she will admit it because she can do no wrong and everything is everyone else’s fault. Hence changing the reality of the affair.

I am glad you don’t see signs of golden child etc.

But still keep an eye out for the way she reacts to them. Most times it starts when the child starts to form their own opinion. And if yours are under 8, they aren’t there yet. Many narcs see children as extensions of themselves. Mini me’s. They get angry when the mini me’s step out of line.

This is just my experience. Npd comes in many forms and intensity, so some behaviours will ring truer then others. Plus I am the child of, not the partner of.

Make sure you read up on the enabler to get an understanding of what that entails. You said your weren’t contradicting her to stop the fighting. That’s a sign of an enabler.

Apart from that, maybe search the forum for people divorcing or separating from those with npd. Then you get the perspective of a partner. The stately homes thread, will give you resources, but from the child’s perspective. But a place to start.

Wow she sounds exhausting and pretty vile to boot....

Narcissist?.. highly likely

Self absorbed brat who has a serious case of princess syndrome?.... Definately

If she refuses to examine her own behaviour and take responsibility you know you're flogging a dead horse right narcissist or not??

If you're expecting her to have some sort of epiphany as a result of counselling i wouldn't hold your breath...She sounds far too self obsessed and arrogant for any sort of introspect.

What happiness you getting from this relationship???

TBH, I don't understand the terms 'grandisose' and 'vulnerable'. I see it rather more in terms of whether they are self-aware or unaware that they are suffering from NPD.

I think narcissistic is used too interchangeably with a person suffering from NPD. I think your DW is unaware (just on probability alone) that she is a sufferer and because she is unaware she will 1 - not agree with you and 2 will therefore never attend treatment.

It's really hard but I think you are still in the FOG of the situation need to get a bit of perspective.

As has been asked, what do you want OP?

Hi,

So to put the background on this..

Generally relationship has been good over the years.. usual bicker / rows, but nothing i would ever say would cause a separation etc..

Main "big" rows have always been over "irrational" wants, without any consideration / thought of cost or of consequence..

Fast forward to August and i found out my partner had been messaging a guy from work for over a month ( flirty ) and they had bumped into each other on a night out.. And following that, send some very flirty / inappropriate messages while drunk on the way home.

it took days to get the truth out of her, and her reaction to everything was to lie.. if it wasn’t a lie, there was an excuse or a blame back on me.. ( her final stance what that that I hadn’t been showing her enough attention, hence she started to message him)

We went to see a councillor, and before the session, the councillor easked us to bring with us a list of issues we had... I have just opened the word document from August and mine were:

Lies, Lies and more Lies - then lies even more to cover a previous lie if confronted. ( i listed some examples recent and old )

Never accepts any blame or responsibility - It is always somebody else’s fault. ( gave examples )

Friends and Company she keeps - this went on to say how she needs to constantly keep in contact with 10 friends plus, of which she feels the need to share every details on any issues in our relationship and paint me out to be the bad guy.

Consideration - Often only considers herself, rather than us ( again, i gave examples )

Affection - All one way - She loves to have a neck rub, but would never ever offer one back ( or any other affection ) unless asked.

Irrational thoughts and demands that lead of a argument.. If she wants something, it has to happen.

Obviously i have left out examples, as it was a 3 page document.. But my notes for the councillor were summarised under the headings above, which I have literally just pasted from my word document notes.. These were 100% of my issues..

Now this list was written prior to a council session and before i had even read up on Narcissism.. To me, it was just a vain person.. I had never heard of NPD lol.

in the first council session, it was a car crash as she denied everything.. But the councillor insisted we just put it behind us and move on, as it was just she said / he said , no you said etc

the Councillor set boundaries and to be fair, we had a couple of months of positive times.. ( ie amount of time she spends on phone / messaging males etc )

There was a bit of gas lighting, and the "emotional affair" then became "just texts to a mate"

However on the second session, some of the stuff from the past came up, and the councillor called my partner "Naive" to male attention and the dangers of social media and guys messaging.

This was the worst thing, and although she agreed with everything in the session, she came out annoyed ( first thing she did in the car was say "I don’t appreciate being called Naive" she then went on to say she will text who she wants, when she wants ( male or female ) .. any previous boundaries the councillor set went out of the window, such as how much time she spends on her phone or who she messages ( she went home that night and sent a random "how are you" to a male "acquaintance" from school, who she had bumped into on a night out - all innocnet, but making a point..

It was then that i started googling "partner always blames me / never accepts blame" and "partner says something but changes the story" - which then led me to gas lighting and then to the whole NPD thing.

Had one more council session since then, and although a lot better, alarm bells are now ringing..

If there is no conflict, the signs aren’t really there. hence we have been together for years, and never given it a second though..

Now i am aware of it, it’s always on my mind.

I mentioned this to the councillor ( without partner present ) , who agrees she has some traits of a category B disorder, but says discussing this with her / telling her this is what i think is the very worst thing i can do...

In terms of what i want..

I love my partner and generally, when its good, its good... there is always that niggle of "what will she decide she wants next, and there is usually an irrational argument for this" - but it’s usually once a year, maybe twice a year.. She doesn’t demand things weekly.

The other traits usually only surface based on conflict from the “I want”

But:.... do the people here ( based on the above 1 sided view ) feel there is some NPD in her... In my head, i have kind of convinced myself there is, but looking back now, its the initial issues list to discuss on session 1 from August that makes me think "you listed this traits before you had ever heard the word NPS.

I was hoping the councillor would give me a more "definite" answer, but she is playing the mediator, so just trying to get us to push forward and work together..

So i suppose I’m here to look for clarity on whether it’s just me reading too much into webpages and forums, or does she have an issue.. As I am conscious that I am kind of “looking” for reasons that she has NPD.. ie trying to fit her into that box.. ( if that makes sense )

and the councillor is saying "give it time" and "move forward positively" - is that even an option if she has NPD..

thanks

She looks good for npd. The moment she had to admit wrong in counselling she very pointedly said she will do whatever she wants.

Also the statement that everything is good when there is no argument. That is probably because she is doing exactly what she wants. The moment that can’t happen, she throws a tantrum.

Even if she is not, you have told her you are unhappy and she crossed a line when talking to other males. Her response was to tell you that she will do whatever she wants. (Regardless of how you feel).

Remember that great saying- if someone tells you who they are- listen.

She has told you her priority and it’s really not you.

I would suggest go to a councillor that has a lot of experience with dealing with npd relationships. Your current counsellor has been told you two want to work on your marriage and that is what she is trying to do. Plus she may not have the npd experience.

Do counselling on your own with someone you can give these examples to and unpick what’s going on from your perspective. Then they can help you decide what to do next.

Agree with a lot of what Aussie says....Especially the 'when someone shows you who they are believe them'

Op does it really matter if she has NPD...What difference does it actually make???

She lacks the capacity for change because she will never be able to acknowlege, take responsibility for and therefore be able to ultimately change her behaviour.

She runs right through your boundaries with her middle finger up as she goes, is completely selfish, kicks off everytime you say something she doesn't like or is told no, and is a complete and utter drain of an attention seeker.

All the counselling in the world won't change someones core personality, you can spend years analysing this and what will it change...NOTHING

If you want this to change you have two choices...

1.Leave and coparent and when the times right be with someone who makes you happy

1. Go have DOORMAT tattooed on your forehead and spend the rest of your life with your mouth shut massaging her neck while she texts other men, and pandering to every ridiculous demand she makes

Stop wasting your time analysing her behaviour and start asking yourself is this boe i want to spend the rest of my life.

Sounds like a nightmare, mate. I'm now divorced from someone who I'm 100% certain has borderline personality disorder, but who also couldn't see the problem with her behaviour (rage, jealousy, lies, manipulation, controlling behaviour and violence) and so also brought the shutters down any time intervention came close to understanding the issues. Your wife certainly sounds like she has some cluster B traits, and there are several PDs share related traits. All are a bloody nightmare!

Took me a while to realise that understanding what was wrong with her was far less important than setting the boundaries to say that I wouldn't tolerate that behaviour any more. Ultimately, that didn't help either - she just escalated the behaviour as she wasn't getting her own way, and so I eventually left her after one of her assaults on me saw the police involved and me at hospital getting checked out for possible fractures.

Anyway, long story short is that life by myself is way, way better than life with that kind of crazy in it. And our kids are doing so much better now that they have a safe space away from all that drama.

My advice to anybody dealing with a possibly personality disordered individual is simple....run. Then run some more. And then hide for a while, until they've found someone new to latch onto. They'll destroy you, and they won't even know they're doing it.

But if you leave, one day you'll wake up and realise that a weight has been lifted from your shoulders. You aren't scared any more. You're enjoying life again. I promise - it feels great. Be free. Personality disordered individuals are terrifying. There can be incredibly good times with them. But it isn't real. None of it is real. They don't even have a clue who they are, so you can't expect to figure them out! Just get out.

A counsellor is not qualified to diagnose NPD - only a psychologist or psychiatrist could do so, and the chances of getting a narc to see either of those are vanishingly small since narcs believe there is nothing wrong with them.

But really, does it matter? She's clearly abusive and you're already walking on eggshells and not challenging her in order to keep the peace (aka keep her happy and everyone else slightly more miserable.)

She sounds very much like my mum, BTW. During my childhood I thought she was a fantastic mum, and all my friends would have said the same. The scales only started to fall from my eyes when I turned 40 and started to put in context some of the awful, terrible shit that she did when I was a child (and an adult) and realise exactly why a visit from her left me feeling anxious, panicky and shit about myself. I've been NC with her for nearly 4 years now and I feel like I've found myself for the first time in my life. I know who I really am now, not endlessly trying to contort myself into her vision of the ideal child.

You seem to be fixated on a yes or no to NPD so.....

Requires constant/ excessive admiration....Tick
Can't handle being challenged/criticised...Tick
When you make boundaries overrides them...Tick
No consideration for others wants/needs....Tick
Blameshifts/Won't accept responsibility ....Tick
Thinks her needs surpass everyone else's....Tick
Displays deceptive behavior ...Tick
Is shallow and superficial....Tick
Feels entitled to have what she wants ehen she wants it...tick

If I had to give a yes or no i would say a yes based on the information you've given...

What are this persons good points???