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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Abusive wife - my Daughter in law

17 replies

christine081251 · 14/11/2018 11:07

Can anyone offer advice? My son went to China 10 years ago to teach; he met a Chinese lady and they now have 3 children under 9. They came back to the UK 2 years ago. My daughter-in-law has never really settled in the UK, although the children seem content at home (when I am there) and in school. My daughter-in-law has often told my son that she hates him and quite regularily asks for a plane ticket to China – sometimes with all of the children and other times with one child. After years of physical (often in front of the children) and verbal abuse my son has left the family home with the children. He has involved both the police and social services and the schools are obviously aware of the situation. My wife has seen my D-I-L pull one of the children by his ear and the school found out and had involved Social Services when it happened last year. My D-I-L is on a spouse visa and if she leaves my son, she could be deported back to China on her own as the children have UK passports.

My quandary is I know that she has committed a criminal offence against my son (and it could get worse) and verbally abuses the children, but does the punishment fit the crime i.e losing your children for hitting another adult? Any comments please.

OP posts:
Longtalljosie · 14/11/2018 11:09

Gosh that’s tough. Which passports do your GC have?

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 14/11/2018 11:14

My D-I-L is on a spouse visa and if she leaves my son, she could be deported back to China on her own as the children have UK passports.

And there is your solution. She is physically abusive to both your son and their and children, her being deported home is entirely her own doing. Sod her.

BookMeOnTheSudExpress · 14/11/2018 11:15

What are you actually asking? Our opinions?
What she has done, whilst not good, doesn't sound like either the police or social services would be remotely interested.
She's unlikely to be deported even if they divorce, as her children's well-being and the right for them to see their mother and their mother to see them would be taken into account. She's more likely to be given the right to remain as the mother of 3 small British children.

Notacluewhatthisis · 14/11/2018 11:17

Yes. Abusing your spouse isn't just about hitting another adult. Abuse doesn't just physically hurt. It's destroys people and destroys children. It's sustained abuse.

Saying 'it's just hitting another adult' is massively down playing this and quite horrible.

Then add on the fact that she abuses the children too? What punishment do you think suits that crime?

Changedname3456 · 14/11/2018 11:19

If she’s physically abused your son, and has been seen to do the same already to one of the children then really it’s only likely to be a matter of time before she escalates with the children again.

She may, due to the kids, be able to gain a right to stay without the spousal visa but really that can’t be your son’s concern (or yours). If she does have to leave then she’s brought it on herself. Pretty shit for the DC, but she’s at fault for causing that, not your son.

SlightlyMisplacedSingleDad · 14/11/2018 11:22

A perspective from a man who got out of an abusive marriage a couple of years ago, that I hope might help.

First, it is not just right that your son take steps to protect himself and his children - it's essential. The damage that witnessing domestic abuse has on children can be profound and long lasting. And when some of that abuse is directed at the children, there is no alternative but to do something. The steps that your son has taken are the right ones, and - while very difficult for everyone - put him and his kids on the road to a far happier place. It is hard to break free from a relationship like that - particularly for men. So, his doing so is a significant step forward.

The fact that you're worried about the effects this will have on your daughter in law is a testament to your compassion. I'm sure that your son will be thinking similar things. Part of the dynamic of an abusive relationship is the tendency to protect the abuser from the consequences of their actions - in my case, whether it was refusing to support an arrest and prosecution o my ex wife when the Police were invovled when she assaulted me; hiding what she was doing for so many years; or even now not telling many friends what really happened to protect her reputation. Your son has been conditioned to protect her from the consequences of what she has done to him, and to the children.

But that doesn't actually help anyone. My ex was convinced that the absence of consequences meant that she had never actually done anything wrong. She didn't even believe she had assaulted me, because if she had then she'd have been prosecuted. So I must have imagined it! The Police and hospital records indicated otherwise, of course.... (Yes, she has mental health issues).

So, I understand your concern about the impacts on her. However, the alternative would be to do nothing. To continue protecting her from the consequences of her own actions ahead of protecting your son and his children. That could never be right. He has taken the right steps, and now the cogs will turn on the involvement of the authorities. That could result in her being prosecuted. It could result in her being deported. But those are not your decisions - that's for due process of law to determine what the right steps to take are, to protect your son, his children, and in the interests of UK public safety. If she loses access to her children, that is sad for her. But she brought it on herself.

The people to focus on here are, I would suggest, your son and his kids. No matter what shesl's done, she's their mum and they will doubtless miss her terribly. I would suggest focussing your efforts on engaging with the support that is available for them through schools, the GP, and domestic abuse charities. With love and support from your son and his family, the kids can thrive through this. But it will take a lot of work. Save your sympathy and care for them. They deserve it. The abuser does not.

AnneLovesGilbert · 14/11/2018 11:30

She's more likely to be given the right to remain as the mother of 3 small British children.

They're currently living with their father who has rightly removed them from an abusive parent and household.

Dvg · 14/11/2018 11:51

I would have a serious talk with your son because he needs to get out of this relationship, it's not healthy to anyone and he needs to make sure that no more abuse can ever come to those children. He will be alright, he has you and his kids.. it'll be her that suffers the consequences but that's all her doing.

BookMeOnTheSudExpress · 14/11/2018 14:47

She is still likely to be given LTR as the mother of 3 small children.
Very few mothers would be sent to the other side of the world when their small children are left with their father, despite what the redtops would have you believe. Policy is to keep families as close together as possible.
How has the custody arrangement been worked out, OP? You say that the children now live with their father? In the family home? Or somewhere else? Is there a court agreement over custody/visitation?

Your son needs to, to quote MN parlance, get his ducks in a row. If he wants this woman out of his life, then that's doable. Far harder to get her out of her childrens' lives.

You talk about police and SS involvement- what has been the result? Does she have a restriction order against her?

Storm4star · 14/11/2018 15:47

She is still likely to be given LTR as the mother of 3 small children

This isn't the case any more. People are told they can skype and so on. If the children aren't resident with her then she won't be able to stay. They have a parent taking care of them.

Not long ago a friend of mine married a man who applied for a spouse visa here. He was refused and she was told to go and live in his country with him. She has a disabled 19 year old DD so she said she couldn't leave her. Immigration's response? "Social services can take care of your DD". I have dealt with cases at work with similar outcomes. In my experience immigration are heartless bastards! If they can get someone out they will.

mindutopia · 14/11/2018 16:02

The UK takes very seriously maintaining family life from an immigration standpoint. Unless she committed a serious crime or had her children completely removed from her care (giving up parental responsibility), she would be allowed to remain in the UK as the parent of British citizen children. It doesn’t matter if they split up or if she’s not the resident parent. The rights of children to a parental relationship trump pretty much everything else in immigration cases (as they should). It would only be an issue if she has overstayed her visa or wasn’t here on the correct visa category to begin with, but even then a case can be made on human rights grounds. I’m a non-British national and have settled in the UK largely on human rights grounds as the parent of two British children. My dh could leave me tomorrow and it wouldn’t affect my immigration status. So that shouldn’t be a problem but she should see a solicitor.

That said if she wants to return to China, then your ds should perhaps support her in that given the circumstances, but not at the disadvantage of the children who sound like they were born here and are settled here. Either way his seeing a solicitor himself is a wise move as it sounds like the situation is not tenable and he has some tough decisions to make.

greendale17 · 14/11/2018 16:07

Get the woman deported, easy solution and you will never have to see her again.

Ellenisia · 14/11/2018 16:25

Wow...
Of course domestic violence should never be condoned or justified, but I think people here are being too partial to this lady being foreign...

“Getting her deported” is easier said than done. Someone previously stated that the courts strive to keep parents in the same country to be able to see the children. I have sought legal advice as I am thinking about divorcing and taking my kids to my country with me (I am a naturalised British citizen so can come and go with no restrictions and all my children have dual nationality) my solicitor says the court will not allow it. It might even not allow me to go on my own! I mean, not that I want to leave them, but this thing of “get her deported” is not going to work...

He should by all means seek legal advice and look for divorce/custody if that is what he wants, but “getting her deported” shouldn’t be the main goal.

ArchbishopOfBanterbury · 14/11/2018 17:27

Social services are involved. It's up to them if the abuse she has subjected the DC too is severe enough for her to lose them.

Abusing your DS, though awful, isn't the main issue - abusing the DC is the problem here. If she needs to go, to protect the DC, social services will make that call.

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 14/11/2018 18:15

He should by all means seek legal advice and look for divorce/custody if that is what he wants, but “getting her deported” shouldn’t be the main goal.

It should not be the main goal as such but if seperation results in that outcome then well I don’t have much sympathy for abusers.

Lizzie48 · 14/11/2018 18:59

I would have a serious talk with your son because he needs to get out of this relationship, it's not healthy to anyone and he needs to make sure that no more abuse can ever come to those children. He will be alright, he has you and his kids.. it'll be her that suffers the consequences but that's all her doing.

This absolutely. You'll all get through this but your DS is the one who has to take that step.

Sleepingdog123 · 14/11/2018 20:19

I agree with previous posts that any consequences are of her own making. Your compassion is lovely and I am sure you are thinking also of the impact on your grandchildren but the impact of them being subjected to this environment for any longer would be far more damaging.

On a practical level - My brother parted from his wife who was on a spousal visa. He has main custody of their child. The visa review took about three times as long as they said it would to come through. There was no abuse in their relationship but she was a bit of an absent mother. She was permitted to remain but had to get a lot of supportive statements to be able to demonstrating her involvement in hmtheir child's life. Which wasn't easy given that she wasn't very present. So this could drag on for some considerable time, just to be warned.

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