Helping DH work through anger with his parents

[Echobelly]

DH is currently not talking to his parents. They have a long history of being dismissive of him, always seeming to judge him as being in the wrong, seeing him as a 'fuck-up', making him apologise for things even when they really should be the ones apologising etc. This latest blew up after his mum, without sufficient context to see the true picture, told him he was responsible for a manager having a go at him and owed the manager an apology (what actually happened was manager had had a day where she shouted at a load of people for no good reason and upset them).

He's had a few of these times he hasn't wanted to speak to them before, but this time is different as he is so angry that he doesn't want them to see our kids - he feels that as they haven't made an effort with him they don't get to see the kids until they consider what they have done wrong. And admittedly their only response to this has been texts from his dad basically telling him all the things he should be grateful for, what's his problem? and why he should sort himself out. No 'What's wrong?', 'Let's talk and sort this out' and so on.

Now before you go nuclear on him, I'm not convinced he will stand by this - I have told him that bringing kid access into it is a horrid move, will totally undermine his case and just make them focus on 'Boo hoo, boo hoo, DS is so horrible he's not letting us see the kids' and playing the victims. He sees my point to some extent but still feels that until they give a shit about him, why should they see the kids?

I don't want a load of posts about this is a shitty thing to do (it is, I know) and DH is a bastard (he's not). I'm not sure how and if I can convince him about the kids thing, I've said about everything I can say.

It's all been made more awkward as MIL left a phone message asking after me and asking to speak to the kids on Friday... DH has not intimated anything to his parents yet about not seeing the kids, but I honestly didn't feel I could go behind his back and have them speak with her, plus she might talk to them and (not necessarily manipulatively) arranged to do something with them. I have not as yet returned her call nor do I feel I can speak to her until DH has decided what he wants to do, as I don't want to say anything about their access to the kids.

BTW, they live locally. We historically see them almost every week. I don't think going NC is an option unless we were to move or something and they are not so appalling as to merit that much exertion. I think suggesting there is less contact (there is one night a week we pretty much always see them) for the future might be a better thing.

The really frustrating bit is that DH is resisting telling them directly 'I am really angry because you have made no effort to contact me to ask what your role is in all of this, rather than admonishing me' and is on some level holding to keeping himself and the kids away until they magically realise this. When the whole problem is because they are utterly fucking unaware!

Any advice (without just slagging off DH, no he is not thinking this through well, but he is a good person) appreciated.

TL;DR - Husband so angry with parents for their emotional mistreatment of him for years that he wants to withhold them seeing kids & believes he shouldn't directly tell them what they've done wrong because they have to realise it themselves if they actually care about their relationship with him

This is definitely a wake-up call to check my 'just wanting an easy life and everyone to be nice to each other' tendencies, I can see that.

We've only talked about this situation in the short term at the moment and I think we need to talk about the long term, especially 'the long term in view of the fact they're not going to change'.

DH has talked before with them about going into family therapy as he feels he'd like to talk with them in front of someone neutral. I'm pretty sure they did talk together about this a few years ago and they were amenable, but neither side did anything about it in the end. Interestingly, DH doesn't seem to remember this at all, but I'm fairly sure it happened. I'm not sure how successful it would be, or if his parents would just use it to chuck dirt at him.

I'd say no to family therapy. They will manipulate it.

Therapy for him, not as a family.

How much reading have you and he done about this family dynamic?

You say he was a golden child, but have you researched the impact of that on the adult compared to the scapegoat? Most research suggests that the scapegoat will have a happier adult life then the golden child. Especially when the golden child becomes the scapegoated adult.

Have you looked at manipulation techniques commonly used. Flying monkey, hoovering, health scare?

In order for you all to deal with this well, you need to start doing some homework. It will help you work out the dynamic that fits and how to cope.

But a couple of things to think about.

Don’t ask friend for advice unless they have direct experience of toxic families. They will never get it enough to give good advice.

Many toxic parents are wonderful when the children are young and basically parrot anything they say. It’s when the child (quite rightly) offers their own opinion that the abuse starts. So they maybe ok now, but that won’t last. And you already see an issue with body image and favouritism but I don’t think you get how damaging it is.

You should all back away from them for now and start arming yourselves with knowledge. Then decide

What Aussiebean wrote here; do take heed.

No no and no again to family therapy. Do not do this with such disordered of thinking people.

Your H needs to see a therapist on his own to free himself properly from the effects of growing up within such a dysfunctional and toxic family.

Re your comment:-
"This is definitely a wake-up call to check my 'just wanting an easy life and everyone to be nice to each other' tendencies, I can see that"

Yes and work on those tendencies as well because they do serve you badly. You cannot be a bystander in all this acting out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. That makes you culpable as well and your H really does need your full support and backing here.

Wrote a reply earlier that got lost for some reason!

Anyway, yes I have done some reading, now and historically about toxic parents and the like - I sent him a link to a Psychology Today piece about them this morning. I will suggest he reads up some more, but he's often quite reluctant to do so.

I haven't heard of all those narcissistic behaviours, @Aussiebean , but will look into further. On first glance sounds like FIL is rather MIL's 'flying monkey'.

DH reckons it's a habit that came from his dad being away for work a lot when he was about primary school age, his mum not coping and shouting at kids (just him and his brother, sis is much younger so wasn't around at this time) and then his dad siding with his mum always to make up for the fact he wasn't around.

I guess then, not surprisingly, DH says he was a foul teenager, and it's like they've acted like he is one ever since.

No one wants to admit that their family has problems, but I found having this knowledge was so freeing and I could make decisions based on that knowledge.

The toxic family come in a lot of different degrees and combinations, the reading will actually help work it out so you can go forward with your eyes open.

Your PIL are really damaging their DGCs with their blatant favouritism towards your DD and with the body shaming. My DM used to make so many comments about my weight, using threats to push me into losing weight; it really damaged my relationship with food and I've been a yo-yo dieter all my adult life. She still thinks she's entitled to comment on my appearance, supposedly to help me. I don't think she realises how damaging she's been.

Now I'm very cautious about allowing her to have contact with my DDs, and we're all very Low Contact with her.

You really do need to support your DH in this; he's taking a stand and that's really brave after all he's been through.

MIL has not yet made any body-shaming comments, but I know she was like that with SIL (who has a lovely figure and who fortunately laughed it off), so if DD is a favourite, I fear she will start at some point.

I'm going to apologise to DH tonight for not having been more behind him and tell him I've tried to look at it more from his point of view and from that of anyone whose parents have been toxic.