Worried about my sister and her boyfriend? WWYD?

[anatol]

Apologies in advance as this may be quite long...

My sister has been in a relationship with a guy for 3 years. At the beginning she wasn't 100% sure about him and if he was her type but he was really over the top in showing how much he liked her (I've since seen people describe 'love-bombing' on here and it was pretty much that) and having been cheated on by her last boyfriend and treated pretty badly by him she took that as a good sign. To be honest so did my family and when she wasn't sure about him and asked what we thought of him we all thought he was great as he seemed to really be into her. I now know love-bombing is a huge red flag that we missed.

As they got more serious it wasn't long before we started to notice things that didn't seem quite right. He has been overheard by family members making comments putting her down like saying she looked better with her hair done differently or when she wore another dress when she was dressed up to go to a wedding. Around this time they began to have a lot of arguments and she clearly wasn't happy.

One night when she still lived with my parents my husband and I were staying the night and my parents were away for the weekend. I was woken up in the morning by her coming into our bed crying her eyes out. She said that her and her boyfriend had been out the night before and had been arguing, she came home and wanted to come alone but he refused to leave her and came back with her, forcing his way into the house behind her when she tried to close it over. She told him she didn't want him there but he came in anyway and she told me she hated that all night as she was crying in bed he lay beside her, holding onto her when she wanted him to leave. I really didn't like this and told her so, he should be respecting her space and her feelings and I thought it just wasn't right. The next day she told him she wasn't sure if they were working out and he told her his parents were splitting up and he was just having a stressful time, she stayed with him and his parents never split up.

He moved down to London temporarily for work and we kind of hoped that it would fizzle out with the distance but it didn't. Instead they have now bought a house together and he has moved back here. When they bought the house he went to see it with his parents and without her, he told her that this was 'the one' so when she went to see it she was pretty much going with the view that this was the one they were buying because (in her words) "this is the one he wants". Just before they closed on the house he started to say that he wasn't sure if it was the right one and that he was only buying it for her and that if it wasn't for her he wouldn't have moved back from London. She told him they didn't have to close but they went ahead with it. Once they got the keys she moved in but he didn't move in for 6 weeks, constantly giving different reasons why he couldn't. During this time my sister was living in an empty flat on her own. My family and I would go round and spend a lot of time with her and helped her to furnish and decorate. She was clearly really unhappy at this time but whenever we tried to talk to her about it she would become really defensive so we were careful with what we said as we didnt want to push her away. He eventually moved in and she started to seem a lot happier.

I went furniture shopping with them one day and when my sister saw something for the wall cost £60 she said she would love to buy it but would need to come back on pay day. He said he would pay and put it on 'her tab'. When I asked what this was my sister said that he kept a written record of anything she owed him. This turned out to include her half of meals and outings from the holidays that he had booked for her as gifts, money for their sofa (1/2 of the sofa was paid for by a member of my family as a gift, he paid for the other half but then said she owed him 1/4 of that), other items for their flat (if she liked it then basically she had to pay him back for it) and half of the cost of wedding gifts for his friends' weddings. Not long after he moved in her went away on holiday without her and he did a house swap with their house so that he could get free accommodation while he was away so my sister had to move out and into my parents during this time. He has also set up another house swap that she will need to move out for while he goes away at the start of next year.

The thing is that now my sister is constantly skint but he always has money, despite them both earning the same. She will literally say that she can't go out for dinner with their friends because she's skint, but he will go to the same dinner that she can't because he's not? I'm starting to really worry that he is using money as a means of controlling her. He has been on 8 holidays this year, 6 of them without her. They don't have a car but he bought a motorbike and so he will use that to go places but will say that she can't go because he's not comfortable taking her on the bike. Where she lives makes it difficult to travel to see our family now without a car so we make sure to drive to pick her up from there. When we suggested she get a car she said she would like one but he then said there's no reason for her to get one and she backed down.

My whole family are really worried about her. There are a list of other things that have happened that I won't even go into because I'd be here all night. In the past I have spoken to her and said that she deserves to be with someone who puts her first. She told him I'd said this and he didn't speak to me for a while but did start treating her much better for a bit so she would say everything was good again. But this seems to be the pattern- he acts like a dick, she gets to breaking point and threatens or tries to leave, he makes an excuse (parents splitting up, work is stressful, brother is ill, addicted to sleeping pills have all been excuses) then is all nice for a while until it gradually starts up again.
My parents aren't always the best at talking to her about their worries and she becomes immediately defensive and shuts them down. It's now starting to affect her relationship with them which is obviously exactly what her boyfriend wants.

I really don't know what we do now. Do we just need to accept what's going so that we can be there for her? Do we keep trying to talk to her (but in a better way)? The thing is that right now she seems to be in a 'happy stage' but we now are very used to the pattern. The thing that worries me the most right now is the things that he is doing in this 'happy stage' that previously would have upset or bothered her but now she just accepts. He is also incredibly charming so most people who meet him would say, 'he's a lovely guy' which seems a big thing for her as when she's been unhappy she's said to me in the past maybe it's her because everyone loves him. His ability to manipulate is really scary.
What's the best way for us to support her?

Sorry for the length.

Sorry I know that's huge but it's genuinely missing out a number of incidents and things that he has done and said that are really worrying so not sure how I could have kept it shorter without resorting to bullet points.

I'm so sorry OP, you sound like. Wonderful, caring sister.

It sounds like your sister is not in a nice relationship. You could try talking openly about your concerns but this may push her away. I think the best thing to do is to let her know that you're there when she is ready to talk about anything and when you do raise issues try to remain non judgemental

Thanks countrybunny.

That's my fear about talking to her about it. She's only wanted to talk about things in the past when something really big has happened but she seems to be closing off more and saying less so now something might happen that she doesn't tell us about. There are however constant little things but it's hard to bring them up when she is glossing over them.

What a miserable turn of events and an incredibly manipulative and abusive situation. I knew a girl who I adored. She was full of passion, independent and caring. She met a guy who essentially took complete control over her life. He was controlling, physically and sexually abusive and cheated on her often. That outgoing woman became quiet, withdrawn. It’s like a vampire sucked all the life out of her. Truly heartbreaking.

Now I saw this happening and wanted to help. She knew what he was as does your sister. But she stuck by him. Didn’t matter what I tried nothing worked. I tried talking to her. Talking to him. Giving her access to support groups, helplines. I tried offering her a place to stay with me. And in the rare occasion she accepted her old self would eventually return and she’d smile and laugh. Then he’d show up and off she’d go. Back to square one.

To this day she remains with him. She’s become almost a stepford wife. Almost robotic. He vanishes for large chunks of the year leaving her alone and isolated. Chokes me up thinking about it.

A combination of fear of being alone, afraid she can’t do better and the controlling destroyed her ability to get out. I’m hoping one day she can. In the meantime she knows where I am. That she has a place to go and that there’s someone beyond him who loves and cares for her. I sincerely hope your sister gets out of it.

www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/coercive-control/

Morning OP. Sounds like both you and your sis are in a difficult position but well done to you for identifying it! Please have a look at the above link. It talks of coercive control and provides an advice line at the bottom. I'd really recommend your sister, or you in the first instance, ringing for advice. Good luck!

maximum carnage
"A combination of fear of being alone, afraid she can’t do better and the controlling destroyed her ability to get out."
This is literally my sister. When she first got with him and wasnt sure about him she actually said to me what if she didn't meet anyone else. She's only 27 but a lot of her friends are now getting married and having kids and I think she's been scared in the past that if she left him she wouldn't find anyone else. But she is beautiful and smart and funny and would have no issues meeting someone else. What breaks my heart is that, like your friend, she has always been so bubbly and sparky, in a way that growing up I always wished I could be. She would just make friends wherever she went. We very rarely see that side of her anymore.

littlem
Thanks for the link. I think I will give them a call for some advice. I might even print off the page and their contact details and drop it into her anonymously one time when I know he's away (he likes to travel a lot and will often go without her so could do it then).

Its so sad to watch someone you care about this waste their life on someone who is so bad for them. Unfortunately there isn't a lot you can do other than just be there for her. She will hopefully get to a point where she's had enough herself. Its unlikely anything you say will change anything and it might push her away.
I have a close friend who is in (yet another) rubbish relationship. I've stopped giving her advice as she never listens anyway and just does what she wants. I just listen when she needs it (which is all the time).
I hope one day (soon) she sees sense. She is SO young.

Who does your sister really listen to? I mean, looks up to and acts on their advice? Is there someone who could put into words how she's feeling, and suggest a different future for her, one full of possibilities and autonomy?

When I was in a relationship I wasn't happy in, my dad just had to say to me, 'Your mum and I don't really think he's your kind of person, he's holding you back' and that helped me to decide.

Could you suggest the freedom programme to her?

He’s wearing her down, a steady dripping that she’s nothing without him, she needs him, she’s daft/ugly/whatever. Your job is to keep building her up. Make sure she knows your family love her, and want what’s best for her and think maybe he’s not it.

This isn't good at all. I'd be worried about my sister in this situation too.

The sofa thing is crazy. How does she owe him a quarter of the sofa money when your family member helped her out.

She'll become a shadow of her former self if she stays with him. If they have kids he'll buy an ice cream and ask for half the money.

He's financially abusing her and she can't see it.

Depends on how close you are to her . I'd tell my sis straight up that it's not right. Everything is in his favour and he holds the power in their relationship.

Does she buy him things and ask for half the money back? It's ridiculous behaviour.

She's young enough to move on and find a decent man who cares for her.

If she doesn't...she's better off without him anyway.

If my daughter was in such a relationship...I'd not be able to stop myself not doing something about it.

Hi OP your thread really struck a nerve for me, you sound like a really lovely, caring sister which is exactly what your sister needs to keep in her life.

There are definite red flags throughout without you even having to detail every example, you just know when you come across evil, manipulative people like your sisters boyfriend.

I’m somebody who was in this situation around 9 years ago, I was only 17 at the time (I’m 26 now) and was with him for a year and a half, fortunately for me he actually left me for another woman (which was an absolute blessing in disguise for me) unfortunately I spoke to that other women years later and he actually made her life more miserable than mine. He was emotionally abusive calling me everything you can think of. One occasion really stands out when I just woke up and rolled over and he told me “I need to start making an effort with myself” as somebody who really struggled with my personal appearance, wore a lot of make up and was really self conscious this was hard to deal with (he loved this and prayed on this). He strangled me against a door for simply trying to leave when he was smashing his bedroom up, he literally ran at me and grabbed me I’ll never forgot his face, he cheated on me several times and injected himself with insulin right in front of me whilst telling me “it’s my fault”, the list goes on. I needed counselling after this relationship. Fast forward to now - I have been with my OH for 7 years and currently 18 weeks pregnant with our first (I’m lucky). Although there has been hope for me and I often think back with the strength, knowledge and confidence I have now and think I would have walked away from that. It’s easy to say and think but when they drain you as I’ve mentioned and PP it’s an incredibly difficult situation to try and comment.

The worrying thing with ‘people’ like them two is that they literally drain everything out of you. To the point you’re no longer yourself, you’re a shell of the person you used to be and they destroy every aspect of you. They mould you to what they want but it’s still never enough, there’s always something wrong and of course it’s your fault. They have zero remorse. The scary thing is that although you are so miserable and know you don’t want to be there you don’t want people to know. It’s a weird situation as you want to leave but the control and being terrified of them and being on your own always wins so you stay. I hid everything from everyone apart from my best friend. She was the only person who I trusted in the end because everyone else (and rightly so) told me to run for the hills. My friend seen this and just listened, was surportive where she could be and was just simply always there.

That’s literally the only thing you can do which is so sad but I pushed anyone away who even tried to say anything negative about him. He isolated me but in the end I enabled this too. Don’t go in too hard on him to your sister and eventually she won’t tell you anything at all. As hard as it is just be there for her, I can assure you she’s aware this is not the situation she wants to be in and hopefully she will find the strength to leave 💜

Such a long comment! I meant “Don’t go in too hard on him to your sister as eventually she won’t tell you anything at all.”

That sounds awful, your poor sister. Maybe send her the link to this thread or this forum and she may realise that she's in an abusive relationship that's never going to get better.

Hi. I've been exactly where you are. In my sister's case, like Anyat's, the only thing I could do was bide my time. She stopped speaking - and still doesn't speak - to the family members who criticised him. She completely lost herself.

And then, it was like she woke up all at once - to the fact he was abusive and the fact she never actually wanted to be with him originally. She's now happily married to someone else and is definitely her own person again.

I know it's horrible to watch.

Thank you for all the comments. There are so many of your experiences that just sound so similar.

We are pretty close but while we still see each other and talk regularly it's starting to feel like a barrier is coming up and she is watching what she says. My dad has always been her hero and he tried to talk to her about things before the summer. She flew off the handle at him and had my dad, who is not an emotional person, in tears. She got really nasty with him and told him that she didn't see him in the same way anymore and that he used to be her hero but now it felt like he wasn't that same person and that she didn't feel he knew her anymore. Her and my dad still talk but it has made us all really scared of broaching it with her because we don't want her to shut us out. My dad didn't even go into detail, just said that he was worried about her and that he didn't think that her boyfriend was putting her first.

She messaged me the other day saying she was annoyed with my mum because she told my mum she was selling something she has because she's skint. My mum started crying and my sister got annoyed about it and told me that my mum was just crying because she doesnt want her to get rid of it because it's something really nice. Basically saying that my mum just wanted her to be able to show it off to people coming in. I told her that it likely wasn't about the item itself but maybe other things she's worried about such as why she feels the need to sell it. My sister said no it was definitely just about the item and redirected the conversation.

I feel like if I am to try to bring it up with her again I would only have one shot at it and would need to be really well prepared. I think she would forgive me for saying something once, if I do it in the right way. After that, if she still stays with him I think if I continued to bring it up that's when she would shut us out completely.

A sister of a good friend of mine started confiding in me once about domestic abuse, we exchanged a few messages. My friend was in your position really. She had voiced her concerns but probably never really gone for it with her, never really gone into detail about how concerned she was - I knew this from talking to my friend. I didn't know her sister (the victim) that well and can't even recall how we got into dialogue about it. But what I can say is that she KNEW her sister was worried. And she KNEW she would be there for her if needed. But DA is such a powerful thing when the perpetrator is so good at control. It's very difficult, as you're finding, to talk someone into leaving or stepping away. I never gave any advice to the victim, just listened (by email). I reaffirmed what she knew, that her family were there for her if she chose to confide or break free.

I think sometimes that is all you can do. Don't labour the point or she may close off completely. Be unwavering in your support. Say little, but make it clear if ever she needs you, come noon or midnight, you'd drop everything. She knows there are problems. She can't not, but only she can break free. I'd be tempted to just remind her simply regularly, without going into detail that you are there for her if ever she needs you and there's nothing that you wouldn't overcome one way or another together. I don't know if that's any help, but is kind of what my friend got to in the end with her sister. Sister is still in the relationship but it has improved significantly. He's still an arsehole but not as bad.

However you proceed, very best of luck to you and your sister.

I really feel for you and your family. I think it’s competely up to yourself on how you approach this, you are the one who knows her well. If you feel she would forgive you - I would go for it. I just think you run the risk of her no longer being as open with you/closing up completely. At the end of the day it is embarrassing when you have a partner behaving like this, so may not like what you are saying.

If you go for it, I’d made sure it’s just the two of you, be honest and as you say, be prepared. If she doesn’t listen or gets defensive try not to argue and just be there for her. If you both start shouting that’s a definite reason for her to shut everyone out and say everything is fine.

Hopefully everything works out!

I was the sister you describe in this situation. You've had some really good advice on this thread. I think the top ones (and totally counter-intuitive). Don't criticise him. He'll be working behind the scenes to poison your sister against her support network. If there's a way to make her see she'd meet someone else that may help. My abuser convinced me no one else would want me and that fear of being alone for the rest of my life was one of the main things that kept me with him. It was like an addiction- the highs were so high (probably because he'd take me lower than I'd ever been with his abuse). I say he was my heroin. I was a shell of a person when I finally left him, didn't know even what colour I liked. I remember trying to pick a new duvet set and I just couldn't. My sister refused to come to my wedding and he used that to prove that she was "evil". I knew she was there for me though and when I finally plucked up the courage to do my moonlight flit it was her house i went to. I really hope she gets away and doesn't waste her life with this evil creature.

Maximum carnage has a point also. I knew on some level my ex wasn't kind and I knew I didn't want to get on the wrong side of him so I did know what he was like. It took time to admit it to myself and even more time to get away from the evil fucker

nicelunch What made you eventually get out? How were things with your sister after.

Sorry if this is a bit of a drip feed- I didn't know if it was relevant- but before I met my husband I was in an abusive relationship. I was younger though and almost actively sought out someone who would control me as I pretty much went off the rails throughout my teens following some stuff that happened to me as a child (no one in my family but the husband of someone my parents employed). My sister hasn't gone looking for this in the way that I did though but has just ended up in it. My parents hated my ex and at the beginning they said so but eventually they stopped saying anything because, like her, I became defensive. Over time the things my ex did escalated to him spitting on me, pinching me under tables if I said the wrong thing if I was out, locking me in the house so I couldn't go out when he went to work. Like others have said I was embarrassed to say to anyone. My family clearly didnt like him but I thought no one knew the full extent. 2 things spurred me on to leave- on my 21st birthday he accused me of cheating on him (i wasn't) and from a distance my uncle saw him shouting at me and jabbing his finger in my forehead. My uncle told me never to ever let a man touch me like that again and threatened to break my ex's fingers if he ever did. I tried to leave my ex that night but he refused to go (thinking back now actually very similar to my sister's boyfriend the night he refused to go). I stayed with him but knowing that people knew now made me see it differently. I finally left a few months after this when I had to go to London for work. While there I got asked out by a few different men and it made me realise thay other people could actually want to be with me (he had me believing that no one else ever would). While I was there I phoned him and told him we were done and it was like an immediate weight was lifted. It also helped that while I was away he had gone to visit his parents so I got my parents to post all his clothes and things there so he literally had nothing to come back for.

Part of the thing that makes me want to speak to her about it is because I worry that, like me, she thinks no one else really knows and maybe realising thay they do might give her some of the strength it gave me. I could be totally wrong in that though as my sister was always much stronger than me so I would never have imagined her ending up in the same position. We're obviously different people so what helped me might not be what would help her.

Intervention time. Do it now en masse before it's too late

He's a vile nasty disgusting bully of a man...

You need to rescue your sister.

I think if you word it right and draw on your own experiences that may make her think. Explain it how you have just there. Say how you felt. Explain that you know from your experiences that it will be much worse than she's told you. Don't accept denials of that. She's unlikely to drop sticks and leave, but like you, it may chip away and play a part in her deciding sooner.