Is this gaslighting?

[NoMalone]

I have been married 20 years. dh is very easy going, kind and usually gentle but can also be harsh and unjust too. He doesnt seem to think things through, grew up in a terribly dysfunctional family (has had therapy for this) and is always the victim in any situation.

By contrast I am hard (he says) and have an ice chip for a heart, i am not emotional, well, i don't cry over things much I suppose he means. I adore our children and do all of the housework and deal with absolutely everything to do with the dc. We are both self employed, I am part time he is full time but we earn similar amounts.

Recently I have taken a step back from my own family, my father in particular is a very angry person and seems to have lost control of his temper. I am (quietly - I don't talk about it) heart broken about this. I told dh that I fear I will be like my father. Since I told him that, if i show any negative emotion he says: watch your temper, why are you so angry? But this can be simple things like remarking on the state of the roads. I might be cross but I have always been conscious of this family trait, though only recently told dh my fear. He is wheeling it out all the time. So much so I am checking myself. Trying to stay bland and neutral in all conversations.

An example is that we were discussing a recent election. I mentioned that I gave all 6 candidates a number (as per instructions), he didn't- only his no 1. He keeps referring to my number 6 as my candidate who I support. I explained how it works: if your number 1 doesn't get in your number 2 gets your vote. It would be highly unlikely no 6 would get my vote. He stops and goes: why are you getting so angry? Well I didn't think I was until that point, then I feel upset and misunderstood and he goes you're so angry, you'd want to watch that temper. I left the room and am ridiculously upset.

I am upstairs but will have to go down soon to serve dinner and he'll be all: are you over your mood now? Which will make me want to throw his dinner at him which proves his point!

I know he is capable of emotional manipulation but is that what this is or am i maybe not checking myself enough - maybe I am too angry! So how does one NOT be angry?! I kind of think we should take umbrage against things we feel are unjust but fear I maybe get too het up over things. I cant decide whether I need a grip or an understanding shoulder!

Has he only just started pointing this out or are you only just aware of it with being a bit more sensitive about it?

Is there any way that you are getting angry?

To be quite honest, from what you have said it sounds like he is gaslighting you. He doesn't sound particularly nice at all. What options will you give yourself?

Try hitting the ball back in his court. Ask him why he can’t differentiate between you being passionate about something and being angry.
( Who was your No 1? Michael D?)

Of course Lugh!

I don't think I can differentiate actually. Maybe that is the problem.

I think he has just started pointing it out. Of course I could be getting angry. I hate being misunderstood. Especially when people insist on sticking to their original understanding.

How does one stop being angry?!

Maybe he's calling you angry when you're actually irritable. If he's repeatedly misunderstanding something, like the voting situation, it would be annoying to have to keep repeating yourself.
Maybe you're not angry, maybe he's annoying and/or goading you so he can call you angry.

Also, you say you quietly go through things in your own mind. Does this mean you don't often share your thoughts and feelings with him? If not, think about why.

Is it because you're just that kind of person or, over the years, have you discovered he uses what you share to do things like this? You might not have been aware of it until now, as this is such an emotive time.

E.g., if you'd ever said that you wanted to lose weight, would he then go on every time you picked up a fork?

And please look at how you describe yourself in terms mainly coined by him. Underneath your icy heart and hard demeanour is a woman who has learned to see herself this way because her partner needs to fill the victim role. He can do that more easily if he sets you up as an ice-bitch.

I think you inadvertently gave him ammunition by saying you're worried you'll be an angry person like your dad. Now everytime you're even slightly annoyed he can accuse you of being like your dad to put you back in your place. He can't be kind and unjust at the same time. He's manipulating you.

He actually said you have an ice chip for a heart?

That's really vile.

My ex used to tell me I never opened up, I’m a really open person but as the years went on I closed up, because he’d use it against me later. Still says it now, nobody else treated or treats me like he does. Read the Lundy book why does he do that, might open your eyes a bit. Your walking in egg shells, and that can be soul destroying.

I don’t think it’s gaslighting but think it is emotional manipulation as it seems to suit him to paint you as the angry ice-cold partner in the relationship as it suits his own bollocks narrative about him being the ‘nice’ one

He sounds like he's chipping away at you.
Btw. You don't sound ice cold etc. Why the hell are you accepting his horrible description of you. You are not ice cold. You sound level headed and capable. I think he is deeply jealous of you. You earn equal to him despite working less than him. So you actually earn more than him. Since you have revealed your deepest fear to dh (ie. Turning into your father) he has latched onto this as a means of bringing you down. He is one of those mean spirited people who use your insecurities against you.

He is from a dysfunctional family. Manipulation is what he has grown up seeing. He's turning into HIS family while you worry about turning into your df.

Additionally, why doesn't he pull his weight with dc and the housework? I find it so sad that women are still settling for this shit deal in 2018.

I see two sides to this. My DH is much like you. Over the years he has come across as very placid to friends but the reality is very different. Infact i have regularly asked him to calm down and set a better example for the kids. His mum has always had mini tantrums about the smallest thing that doesn’t go her way (control issues) and DH has been conditioned into accepting these over reactions as the norm (hence his placidness) When I first met him he would be cross about the smallest thing - spilling a drink for example. It would negatively and pointlessly effect the atmosphere. Stupid things would therefor effect my day and bring me down. I found DH too needlessly stressful. My family are much more easy going, they do occasionally get upset but it’s about much much bigger things. So less huffy/annoyed /irritated and more open hearted/sincere/deeply effected. We are accepting that small things go wrong. When DH and I had the children I became even more aware of DHs over reactions and made a point of asking him behave better. Thankfully non of the kids have taken this quality on and infact we all quietly have a little joke about dads grumpiness. They do get cross but it’s about meaningful things and day to day they are upbeat and take small issues in their stride.

From his perspective it probably has stunted his whith of expression. There is also a rift between his mum and me. I used to be much more tolerant of his mums poor behaviour but I don’t have any patience for it now. DH knows how I feel and I’ve placidly and quietly taken a step back.

But yes your DH should be pulling his weight with the kids and house.

spookymcspookerson i think that is it. If he doesnt want to go out he will tell people that I won't allow him . I would never say you cannot go out! I am not at all possessive but he would use this excuse even if, say, i was away and he was home alone with young children!

For those who say why put up with the imbalance in home chores well it's been 25 years in total and all the ranting and raving and arguing and begging and pleading for him to pull his weight has had some impact and he is better than he used to be, but every relationship has its imbalances and this is just one of ours.

He is hugely manipulative. I actually can't believe the 'i see both sides' comments here. I have had 2 exes like this, and I recognise the manipulative behaviour as well as your own doubting of yourself. Please read this book and see how much of it rings true:
Narcissistic Lovers: How to Cope, Recover and Move On www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0882822837/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_T.w1Bb78Z1PYE?tag=mumsnetforum-21

Have you thought how much nicer and calmer it would be not to live with someone who uses your vulnerabilities as ammunition and treats you like the enemy?

It seems like you are walking on eggshells around this man who has further taken your underlying fear of turning into your father and has run with it. Its another stick for him to use to bash you with instead of supporting you and otherwise allaying your fears.

I do not think you will at all turn into someone like your dad at all (such fears are often expressed by those who have been brought up by emotionally dysfunctional people) but have married someone just like him. We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents, what did your mother and father teach you?.

Interestingly I had a narcissistic, abusing ex in the past. He used to say I had an ice heart, he'd call me The Ice Queen. I don't know why he said that and it still hurts. He doesn't sound very nice. But if he's bad therapy about his dysfunctional family, maybe he'd be open to you pointing this out?

He is using your worry about being like your dad against you. That is very unpleasant and not the way someone should behave if they love you.
As for telling people you won't let him out - that reminds me of my ex. He once bought a mountain bike so he could get back into riding it. I used to encourage him to get out on it. On ONE occasion I was annoyed because he went out for a night out, then was gone on his bike all day the following day too (we had a young child).
He then brought that up all the time, saying I never let him go out on his bike. He then chose to sell it and blamed me!!! The truth of it was that he just couldn't be bothered going out any more.
I got rid of him.

You seem to be asking "is he gaslighting or am I angry" but it can be both. You're allowed to be angry.

It's not anger thats the problem, anger is a healthy emotion. The problem is the behaviour some people engage in when they are angry. If you're not aggressive or cruel to people around you or just constantly ranting and raving, your partner should be fine with you being angry (especially if its directed at something thats nothing to do with him).

I think it's his behaviour that is the problem, not your normal levels of anger.

It's also normal to be angry, think to yourself "I am angry about this and I won't have it anymore" and use that to carefully plan your steps going forward.

I think it sounds like what I'd describe as gas lighting. You've shared an private thought and fear. He's using that to his advantage to silence and control you

He sounds overly critical and he IS deliberately twisting what you've said and mocking/chastising you for your reaction to his deliberate misinterpretations.

"Which will make me want to throw his dinner at him blush which proves his point! "

IF his point is "I'm a dickhead who can wind you up then mock you for your normal response, and if you don't respond you're being the unemotional Ice robot I accuse you of being when I can't see you get upset after I've put genuine effort into upsetting you"

If that is his point then yes it proves him right. Well done him.

OP I can honestly say I have been in a relationship, though not a long one, with a man like this and he is absolutely not going to change so why on earth are you still putting up with it after 25 years? I couldn't even stick this kind of shit for 25 months! My ex was also a fucking lunatic but still...