A question about narcissists

[Itchyknees]

Do you think they ever have any insight into their behaviour?

I’m thinking of a couple of narcs who have been in my life and one of them was also logical and reasonable and I always wondered whether if it had been explained to them, and why/how their behaviour fitted that pattern, they might have chosen to behave differently.

There’s another one in my life at the moment and she seems to have no insight whatsoever.

No; they neither have empathy (big clue that) or insight.

If they did have insight or empathy...well, it would be a device to further their own agenda. Not sincere. They would deny it and never own it.

If you did point out their narcissistic traits/behaviours I think they would have difficulty processing it.

They would look at you in disbelief. What me!!!

To actually be diagnosed with NPD is very rare. The majority of people have narcissitic traits but it doesn't mean everyone has a personality disorder. It's a label thrown around a lot these days so it depends to what extent they fall on the scale. A lot of mental illnesses also carry narcissitic symptoms. Someone with NPD will not have any insight and wouldn't believe what they were told about their behaviour and probably go into a rage at the mere suggestion, but others with narcissitic qualities may be able to recognise their behaviour as they will not have the other characteristics associated with full blown NPD.

I agree with AnotherOneBitesTheDust* my mum has schizophrenia and I often see narcissistic traits in her.
She has a distinct lack of processing others emotions, will stare very vacantly at you or even continue smiling if you're actually angry or expressing your disappointment.
I do believe that she naturally has other traits from her dad though, who was an abusive man, very self absorbed.

However, there are people who are covertly narcissistic; they're very different to the standard narcissist.
I also believe that it is rare only because most narcissists would never seek treatment in order to be diagnosed anyway.

There are far more narcissistic people out there than we probably realise.

My daughters father has NPD. I am glad to say there are now several thousand miles of land and ocean between him and us.

In my experience they sometimes recognise certain elements of what they do like the sociopathic lying but then again it's only because they get caught out. He actually referred to it as social fabrication 

I have come across one person with NPD who writes about being a Narc. I think that this must be extremely rare.

The only way to deal with a narcissist is don't. Run. (The actual advise given to me by his therapist was take your daughter and never look back)

Apparently between 5 and 12% of the population have a personality disorder, but a lot of them are undiagnosed.
Im certain my stbxh has it and has a level of awareness, eg he knows hes detached from his emotions, he knows he generally doesn't care about others and he knows he feels superior, he basically knows hes different from others!! This slight awareness that he has has actually made him worse not better. He manipulates and twists a situation to make it fit his criteria, as long as it sits ok with him. I may be wrong but i think having a digree of knowledge has made him worse.

Feelings
General personality disorders which cover NPD are not particularly rare. I work in an environment where we have a lot of people with personality disorders some diagnosed and some not. They are caused by childhood trauma, unlike bipolar which is a chemical imbalance.

That's interesting.

Totally agree with what others have said. A person with NPD would never recognise it or be reflective. Please protect yourself and steer away from trying to help them see. It would never work and would be a very painful process trying. I know from experience and only wish I'd known much earlier.

The reason very few with NPD are diagnosed is that the very nature of the disorder means that they perceive themselves to be perfect.

If you perceive yourself to be perfect, why would you seek a diagnosis telling you you have a personality disorder?

Having been on the receiving end of a family of weapons-grade narcissists, I know there is nothing anyone could say to convince them of their utter superiority.

The person with narcissistic tendencies I had an awful time with would never have used that label for himself. In his dark moments he did however know that something was broken about him that was stopping him from forming healthy relationships. He knew that something was wrong with him.

I have a few narcs in my family and have some tendencies myself
I have learned how to manage my behaviour and that some things I used to do ( or my first instinct is still to do) are unacceptable
I do sometimes have to consider how a “normal person” would react to a situation as some things don’t come as naturally to me as they do to other people

I’m autistic and definitely have some narcissistic/sociopathic tendencies. The social contract we have instinctively with others isn’t there with me. I see no reason to lie to make someone feel better about themselves, or anything wrong with putting yourself first especially in a workplace environment, I’m there to succeed not make friends, I also at times have an ego problem because I’m clever and refuse to downplay my abilities. I don’t cry and I don’t get ‘sad’ about the actions of others, I want to get even, HOWEVER I recognise that these are horrific traits to have and I work everyday to be better, to do better and to love and help others regardless of the likelyhood I’ll gain anything for it. I adore my family and I would throw myself in front of a train to save a stranger, but my body language and relationships didn’t often model this. I would come across as cold and unfeeling, I think these traits and personality flaws while having an underlying genetic predisposition for abnormal psychology are most likely caused or at least worsened by my upbringing, personal experiences and childhood trauma.

My friends often tell me that I’m a difficult person to read because I wear my heart on my sleeve and love with abandon, but I refuse to accept any sort of love from anyone else. That I hold myself to a harsher standard than I do anyone else and I’m trying to change that.

The fact that I can recognise these issues within myself according to my psychologist who diagnosed me as autistic is what proves I’m not a sociopath or a narcissist, she stayed I’m just so self aware I can see all of the bad as well as all of the good, and I’m not ashamed of any of it.

As a general rule if someone has a serious personality disorder, don’t engage with them unless your confident that you can deal with the psychological stress and pressure they will put you though.

I think this is a really intriguing question. In my experience, the majority do not perceive themselves as abusers as in they are not self aware. Some of them are very good at mirroring cognitive empathy. However, challenge them on this and because of their great need to maintain the facade, they will always twist what's been said in order to suit their narrative. Utterly useless challenging these ones.

There is a much smaller group who are self-aware. I know several. They are willing to talk about it but more often than not, they will keep schtum once you accuse them and then place you under even greater scrutiny as you have now revealed your hand.

To those that are interested, I started this thread a while ago.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3397660-Life-after-a-Narcassist-advice-thread

Hopefully, some will find it useful.

Another thing to consider is if the person has borderline personality disorder? Im unsure but i think if you have bpd you can flick in an out of other personality disorders depending on environmental factors etc etc. Its also on a spectrum so you could have npd but not have it as severe as others or have it worse at a time of huge stress, functioning better at others.
Also there is a tendency to have other mental health issues such as anxiety, eating disorders, dependency on drugs and drink etc etc.
There is so so much about my failed marriage that i dont understand, but im certain that he has a personality disorder and deff anxiety disorder. He was also very controlling and just generally very odd, flitting between one obsession and the next. Maintaining positive relationships was a huge problem, he appeared to either obsess over that person or just dismiss them as not worthy. He had such a fragile ego, he on one hand thought he was totally amazing and a cut above the rest, esp with his looks. But he was also lost and confused and insecure. All that put together was very very confusing and amounted to a very toxic person, the stress with in the house was huge. So glad im now no longer a part of it and my and my children can live a more emotionally stable life.
The only advise i would give to anyone who found themselves in that situation is to value yourself! If your not being valued in a relationship then get out of it.

People with no empathy can't change their ways IMO. Mainly because they are incapable of comprehending what it is all about.