What TF Next ????

[BestB4]

Looking for a female perspective and PRACTICAL solutions.

Background. Married 25 years, 4 grown-up kids (all out of the house), our own house, lotsa holidays a year, 2 cars etc. So in short, long, fulfilling marriage. Financially very secure..

I am still so desperately in love with my wife. She is "Countdown Killer" intelligent, razor-sharp funny, a phenomenal mother and person. My best friend and sexy and desirable as hell - but that is where the issue starts.

Our marital sex life (oh! and it is the only sex life I have. Nothing extra-marital EVER), is now only a memory, and in my early 50's I don't know if I'm ready for full celibacy just yet. So....

I know that my wife and I need to discuss and talk this through to a position where we can both understand and agree what has - or hasn't -happened, and how we both want to move forward... and herein lies the major problem.

My wife refuses point blank to talk about sex, or our sexual relationship, or in fact anything to do with sex. She always has been extremely reticent, but now she is getting more militant and simply refuse to talk.

A simple statement like "I can't wait to snuggle up in bed to you tonight", will bring a 'death stare', a physical move to another sofa and then an hour or more of absolute silence. Honestly... it can be that dramatic...

We can be curled up on the sofa watching TV and she has her head on my lap but the minute she feels - or thinks - I'm getting hard, she will bolt upright, go to her corner (physical and metaphorical), tell me I have spoilt it all, and why don't I just "go on-line and find something to wank about - like any normal bloke" (actual quote).

I don't understand where her views have grown from - or are going to - and I'm not even being allowed the chance to find out. Not healthy, and very, very frustrating - probably for both of us.

We do have long and full discussions about EVERYTHING else. Family, work, friends, politics, TV. And she will talk about - and I will listen as attentively as I can - about how she FEELS about EVERYTHING. But.. if I ask why she won't even countenance the prospect of talking about sex. She will simply walk out of the room, or go to bed, or pick up the phone to her mum/brother/friends/etc. and do anything to avoid talking about either the specific moment, or what is happening.

So even the topic of, "the topic of sex", shuts her down completely. Don't simply tell me that we need counselling. I know.

Over the last 10 years I have arranged - with my wife's knowledge and agreement - 3 separate, 6-meeting, sessions with Relate. The last sessions 3 years ago. But when it has come to the day she has chosen not to attend any of them, choosing "retail-therapy" instead during a number of these session. So I have ended up the "billy-no-wife-saddo" going to every session on my own. Looking back, how really sad is that. That I continued to go to every session, knowing that she wasn't coming with me???

I wouldn't have minded if she had just come along and sat there - and maintained her silence - at least she would have been there and maybe heard how this situation is making me feel. So the effect or improvement of the Relate sessions on our relationship was zero. 18 sessions - and she wouldn't even go to one. Though maybe the retail-therapy improved her well-being!!!!

For her there isn't any problem. She doesn't want sex, and doesn't want to talk about why she doesn't want sex. Its her independent decision, her body, and she lives her life the way she chooses. All well and good - and there is no argument against any of that, but it has reduced our relationship to platonic only. Like a brother or friend only - though ironically, I suspect she talks more about sex when she goes out with her friends on her girly-nights. Which would mean that if she is talking to her best mate about sex, her best mate has infinitely more of sex life with my wife than I do.

Fundamentally....Where does this all leave me? How can I engage with her when she simply shuts down at the suspicion of where the conversation is headed?

I need some practical advice - hopefully from someone who has been/is currently of a similar mind. Advice that DOESN'T FOCUS on "YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TALK TO HER ABOUT IT" - for the glaringly obvious reasons above.

PS: There is no historic abuse from her family (or 1st husband), in the background here. I have managed to glean at least that from a full and frank discussion some years ago, after a relation dropped that particular bombshell (during Christmas dinner no less!!!!), about them and an older, deceased family member.

PPS: OH!!! Nor is she subject to any CURRENT physical, emotional or financial abuse. But even an abuser could say that wouldn't they!!!! Or.... maybe I'm the one to be suffering abuse. Though if thats the case I wouldn't know what form it was because I certainly don't feel any.

Write a letter if she won't listen to you... it will give you the opportunity to explain your POV without a head on discussion

Fundamentally this leaves you as friends. If you're not happy with that and she won't talk, your only option is to leave. Morally at least.

I would love to offer you advice, but this is also my experience for the past few years. Try to talk. Get shut down. No way through.

I've given up, I'm being the best damn dad for my kids then when they're off. Or when DW is financially independent. I don't think I'll be sticking around. Run out of reasons to if I'm honest.

This sounds awful for you. Do you have any inkling in any way at all why she has become this way? Do you think she has ever enjoyed sex, even years ago?

Shit just noticed you wanted female advice. Ignore the above from me.

Yep, I agree with writing a letter too she can't hide from it like she would you and she'll be able to digest it in her own time.

It sounds as if her libido has upped and left. Or that she still likes you but doesn't fancy you anymore. Neither of which statement will help the situation you're in. She won't talk about it, she refused to attend counselling, she knows it's a big deal for you. I'm not sure what the answer is - she's checked out of a sexual relationship with you and has no intention of rekindling things. You have some big decisions to make. Life is too short to be unhappy most of the time.

I agree with writing it down in a letter good luck

I agree, write a letter, if she refuses to talk after that then I think you need to leave.

It is unfair that she’s not willing to talk to you about an issue in your relationship.

A Letter.... WHAT A SIMPLE, YET BRILLIANT, PRACTICAL IDEA !!!!!

Of course there is no guarantee that she will read it/read it through but if she does - and it works - because I am a man, and nothing of any import could ever possibly come from the delicate and feeble female brain - clearly I will claim all credit...... Dilly, Dilly.......

BIG THANKS... I'm going to start composing now...

She needs to realise that when sex goes the whole relationship changes. For some that's not necessarily the end but you both need to understand how you got here. Frankly if she can't talk to you then I'd be suggesting marriage counselling. You can by all means write a letter, but then will she wrote you one back, and you write her another. She may not want to speak to you about it but that doesn't stop you expressing your feelings vically to her.

If she shuts you down in conversation then she's going to be even more able to ignore a letter... (that was to PP as I'm pretty sure OP's last post was sarcastic!)

OP you have 3 choices here.

1. Try to ignore your need for basic human intimacy, rub one out in the bathroom once a week, become ever more bitter to the point where your adult children avoid visiting because of the atmosphere
2. Divorce her and seek happiness elsewhere. Children may be initially a bit leery but the majority of kids these days understand that

households flux and change.

1. Stay with her but seek a discreet outlet say once a month. NOT AN AFFAIR that could end in emotions. Find an independent sex worker who you click with and see her once a week/month/whatever.

TBH for myself I'd choose 2. And I still chose that even when my son was a child (and I was working a civvy job.)

Quick question OP. Do you do any of the household chores without prompting from her. Not just a bit here and there, but consistently hoover, dust, do the dishes etc.

My exH, as a lot of men, think that simply taking out the trash or washing the occasional dish is enough. And it's not. That's what turned me off so much about him. It turns a lot of women off because we are exhausted. When a woman gets treated like the housekeeper and also working and paying the bills, she starts to build resentment. And for a lot of women, when we get turned off a man, we stay turned off. A lot of women find it to be a total turn on for a man to just do things around the house unprompted. And to do it consistently without being asked or saying you'll get around to it. And if he can fix things? A total next level of sexy!

I'm not saying this is you but is something for consideration. Can you recall a pattern like this in your household? This is a massive issue for a lot of households

Not sure how to say this without it sounding awful and hurtful, but I wonder if she doesn't fancy you anymore and can't bring herself to be intimate with you, but loves you dearly - hence such a connection in every other aspect, and snuggling etc. It seems she is actually really happy and perhaps has decided she can live that way and is happy with your relationship as it is. She knows it's a big deal to you and probably thinks it's a deal breaker so doesn't want to discuss it as fears it will start you down a path you can't return from and she would lose everything else she loves about your relationship. As long as she buries her head she doesn't have to face up to that.

I say this as someone who feels that way about her husband and has buried her head a long time. We are now addressing it but I see it only going one way. And not a good way for us as a team.

I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic about the letter but I think that's a great idea. She WILL read it. Leave it one day somewhere obvious when you are out all day. In an unsealed envelope so if she wants to pretend she hasn't read it she can. I guarantee she won't be able to contain herself though and will. At least you might start chipping away and making her understand why you need to talk about it.

Best of luck.

I agree with writing a letter.

I, also, feel that if she ignores it, you'll have to bring up the possibility with her (somehow) of seeking sex outside of the relationship.

Hope things work out, OP.

‘A simple statement like "I can't wait to snuggle up in bed to you tonight", will bring a 'death stare', a physical move to another sofa and then an hour or more of absolute silence.’

She sounds like a bitch. Forget sex, but why are you choosing to be with someone so cold and contemptuous? (I do think her extreme reactions could suggest historic sexual abuse/violence).

Forget the letter or the pointless advice about chores. One last conversation where you lay it on the line. Make it clear this is her last chance, an ultimatum. But you have to be prepared to walk away.

I’m sorry for you - this sounds very tough. Have you ever read The Women’s Room by Marilyn French? I think there can be a feeling that for men it’s ‘just’ sex and for whatever reason your wife is done with that or can’t find a way of expressing what she needs in a way that respects yours (and the women’s room may give an insight into why that can happen between men and women - I think!!) ☺️

Is she going through menopause? Or gone through? That can make oestrogen drop so low and kill libido to the point that she may not even be able to contemplate feeling sexy or wanting sex - maybe that worries her but she doesn’t want to risk there being a problem with her.

Advice I’ve read for others is about building back intimacy slowly but that’s really not going to help if she’s lost the feeling (physical) but also won’t engage with how emotionally important it is to you. I wonder if it would shock her to read in your letter how much it hurts you emotionally that she refuses to engage and that it’s not just sex - you want to make love to the woman you described in your post here. (And why) I know when my husband tells me something has hurt him I step back because he doesn’t use those words very lightly.

You may need to define what sex is and why it matters that you are intimate. (Maybe it hurt last time and that scared her). It must be something quite deep for her to be so blind to how much this matters to you. To be honest the ‘most normal men’ comment could come across as abusive if constant but sounds like an extreme form of self defence / blaming you for wanting something from her that she can’t or doesn’t want to give but it was a horrible thing to say.

Sometimes I think people get caught up in dealing with the stereotype of ‘men’ (find something to wank about) than the reality of the person in front of them. But she needs a nudge to realise that she is not behaving like your friend to freeze you out of talking about this. And that it hurts you.

Sounds like there’s a lot of repressed anger in her on this issue (I’ve given you everything why do you still want more/want sex now?) - feel like the road may be a long one. Hope it works out for you!

I guess you could try to broach the idea of opening up the marriage. If you want to stay together but also want a sex life then having sex with other people with her consent is your only option.
I suspect that would be a swift slope towards developing feelings for someone else though and the end of your marriage, and even by asking you may precipitate the end anyway.

Sorry about the silly smiley face - typing on my phone!

It's probably time to give her a quick ultimatum, OP. 'We need to talk about sex; if we don't, I am leaving'. Emphasis on 'Talk', not do.

What are you staying for, anyway? The kids are adult. You are still young and have a lot of years in you yet. There are other women out there (if you want) - and she can either talk or face the end of her marriage.

I don’t think she’s that into you

You might be convenient, a comfort blanket, security but she doesn’t get the desire

Not necessarily your fault, it’s just the reality

Whatever, it’s not working for you so you need to make that clear

Really the only option if you want to have sex regularly with your partner is to leave her. She's not even open to discussing it so you can't fix it.

From her actions it seems she likes you and wants to stay married to you but doesn't want to have sex with you. You don't really need to have a conversation to confirm this. It's up to you as to whether you are willing to proceed with your marriage on that basis.

I was in this exact situation myself OP. I bore over 10 years of no sex before I couldn't take any more. The lack of intimacy destroyed me. I had to leave. You cannot make your partner change.

I was once your wife, and I would probably have stayed forever, because we had a nice life, and I did love my husband (still do) - but like a brother. The thought of having sex with him was abhorrent.

I kept on wondering when/if to tell him, then one day he just came out with, 'do you still love me?' and I bit the bullet and said, 'not the way I should to stay married.'

We went to marriage counselling, but the counsellor basically said what I already knew - once I'd 'fessed up, I'd checked out of the marriage in everything except name. We separated and divorced.

My ex-husband is now happily married again, and presumably having the sex he so richly deserves. You are too young to waste any more time. Her avoiding marriage counselling is backing you into a corner and shows she has no real interest in the marriage - not even enough respect for you to speak honestly in front of a neutral party.