Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers! Sharing & Healing

14 replies

T1memachine · 17/09/2018 20:30

Daughters of narcissistic mothers. Can we share experiences, offload and most importantly share HEALING TIPS?

So we are clear... Common symptoms of my narcissistic mother (NM):
No empathy
No physical or verbal affection ever
Shaming and mocking to control
Appearing community spirited to the outside world
Explosive reactions to daughter setting boundaries
Conditional approval based on criteria (what would people think)

some examples of my MN behaviour:
Pushed me away when I was crying after my friend told me I’d drunk poison (aged 5 and really believed I was going to die)
As a child (age 7) mother crept into room and recorded my snoring on a cassette player, and then played it back in front of all my friends and family at Christmas. (I had said I didn’t think I snored).
Throughout childhood and teenage years regular comments about my appearance- lipstick not right, dressing tarty, looking overweight etc.
When, aged 18, I told her my A Level results (average) she rolled eyes, huffed, and gave me silent treatment for 3 days.
Screamed and told me I’d ruined Christmas after I told her in low calm voice that I would not tolerate her shouting at me (I was 35 at the time). Burst out crying and wailing and stormed to her room slamming door. Father steamed in and she told him I’d behaved abominably. (He then threatened me).
Upon telling my NM I had just chosen my wedding dress she said “right, thank god I need to know what it looks like as I don’t know what the hell I’m wearing to this wedding”
As a young adult: “why couldn’t I have had children who were normal”
Never been hugged or held by NM

Impact on my life has been significant- too much for this message, but trust me I’ve lost decades of my life and potential happiness. Never had my own kids and might have missed the boat. After years in therapy I feel I am only now coming to terms with this. Trying to find ways to heal including:
Reduced / minimal contact, including email only
Self love- finding ways to increase
Daily meditation and affirmation.
Listening to my needs.

Some people say you need to build yourself back up again, but as the daughter of an MN I don’t think I have ever experienced feeling up to begin with, so it’s like I am building myself from scratch.

I know there are others out there with similar experience and healing knowledge

OP posts:
vampirethriller · 17/09/2018 21:25

My mother sounds very much like yours. At 63 she has full tantrums, screaming and kicking her feet on the floor, if something isn't "right."
She used to hunt for and read my diaries and then laugh about them over the phone to friends in my hearing.
She would let me arrange to go to a friend's house, or an after school club, for example, then change her mind but not tell me. So I'd get home and be in the wrong, and she s would scream at me for the next couple of days.
Wouldn't buy me sanitary towels (we lived in an isolated village with no shop for 10 miles so I couldn't buy my own until I was old enough to get a job. then called me revolting for using toilet paper.
She kept me home from school to look after my siblings and got violent when I had bad reports and marks as a result.
Aged 60, we all visited for her birthday, and I asked what she wanted for dinner. I made everything Plus a cake while she went out for the day. I put a banner saying Happy Birthday up on the gate for her coming home, and she screamed at me, How dare I let the whole world know it's her birthday, I'm fucking idiot, tore it down and burnt it...
I could go on for hours.

3ChangingForNow · 17/09/2018 21:37

'Building myself from scratch' - I TOTALLY feel this way, too.

I think one of the main things I have to learn is to self-soothe properly. So for me this means when I am upset, being able to first cry and grieve or whatever, then switch over to the 'parent' role and soothe myself, tell myself everything will be okay etc. If I push the hurt down and numb it out, as I did when younger, I become a toxic person. The other option is becoming dependent on someone else to 'fix' it for you like DP/DH which is not fair on them, because I am not crying out for them, I am crying out for 'mummy'. For this to work I have to find a balance between going to someone for assurance, and sorting it out myself.

Also finding my anger within me for my mother has been wonderful. Also telling her what she does/has done and why it has hurt, and saying 'I will not have you flip it around and pin it on me as you always do', or 'Why are you making this all about your feelings?' or 'I will not have you invalidate my experiences', like pre-empting her own excuses. That is the only way I can interact with her whilst feeling safe. I don't care if she gets angry as I am no longer trying to please her or placate her.

Self love has been incredibly important to me. I used to send myself 'mothering letters' saying all the things I wish she had told me. You know, you're brave, you can do anything, you're beautiful, you're my precious girl etc... To give myself a stable sense of self worth that I didn't get. I really try not to base my self esteem and love on how well I do or how I look or other external characteristics, I try to always base it on my fundamental worth as a human being. That 'rush of love' some people say they get when they have their babies, I tried to channel that into letters to myself. It actually helped loads.

After getting out of my abusive relationship I realised how much of that was influenced by my mother and it made me totally change. It made me stand up for myself, my worth and what I believed in, and hold true to it. No one else is allowed to devalue me now, because I don't devalue myself.

Despite having worked on this for about 8 years I still have difficult days. I then try to remind myself 'I have suffered from some real trauma and am doing very well to heal myself. I am strong and incredibly brave.'

We have so much healing to do. The pain runs so deep. But we can do it and we will do it! I am glad my mother is the way she is though, as it has given me many benefits, too, including:

  • Ability to read others well
  • Independence
  • Compassion and empathy
  • A very very deep feeling of love that makes romance and sex incredible
  • My own personal suffering which has turned me into a stronger person
  • A wonderful understanding of personal boundaries (through having to learn them from ZERO)
  • A deep interest in psychology and how people work

Do you think the experience of having a Narcissistic Mother has given you certain strengths as well as weaknesses?

Bitrustyandbusty · 18/09/2018 05:49

I loved the oft-recommended book ‘Toxic Parents’ by Susan Forward, and found it overall very reassuring, validating my experiences and feelings.

Most of all, the chapter entitled ‘you don’t have to forgive’ resonated with me. We are conditioned that ‘to err is human but to forgive is divine’. One of my siblings has forgiven but not forgotten and, I think, judges me harshly for choosing not to forgive, and assumes that means I have not reached my own peace.

I cannot and will not forgive someone who was systematically cruel to me throughout my formative years, sought no help to improve at the time or since, has no empathy for my resultant struggles, and shows no remorse.

And I now understand that that is OK for me, it doesn’t mean I am weak to lack outward forgiveness. It is far more important that I learn to forgive myself, for the mistakes I have made, for my own learned toxic behaviours and misplaced anger.

T1memachine · 18/09/2018 16:49

3Changing I started therapy and had my initial “breakthrough” about 4 years ago now, but am still on this journey. You sound like you have made amazing progress. It is incredible to hear and I would love to know more about how you have got so far. I am doing daily work on my self esteem and inner child but have frequent set backs. Only this week there was an incident with my mother and her behaviour impacted me. I realised that she has narcissistic qualities that even after a lifetime I hadn’t fully seen. And it is constant work to rise above and know that her behaviour is NOTHING to do with me.

In terms of any positive impacts of this upbringing:
I know I am bloody resilient and strong
I have a survival instinct

Also, I developed a false self as a child in order to survive and have now dismantled this through therapy (but bring it back temporarily to survive in when in parents company- as little as possible). This means I am now repulsed and repelled by any falseness I detect in others. Sometimes a good thing (spotting fakery) and sometimes a hindrance (deeply uncomfortable with even the most trivial of necessary falsities such as polite chit-chat at social events).

OP posts:
MsForestier · 18/09/2018 17:10

Following with interest due to difficult parents. Lots resonates.

3ChangingForNow · 18/09/2018 19:42

I TOTALLY agree re forgiveness.

Alice Miller (please read every single one of her books!) says on forgiveness:

By refusing to forgive, I give up my illusions. A mistreated child, of course, cannot live without them. But a grown-up therapist must be able to manage it. His or her patients should be able to ask: “Why should I forgive, when no one is asking me to? I mean, my parents refuse to understand and to know what they did to me. So why should I go on trying to understand and forgive my parents and whatever happened in their childhood, with things like psychoanalysis and transactional analysis? What’s the use? Whom does it help? It doesn’t help my parents to see the truth. But it does prevent me from experiencing my feelings, the feelings that would give me access to the truth. But under the bell-jar of forgiveness, feelings cannot and may not blossom freely.

A child can excuse its parents, if they in their turn are prepared to recognize and admit to their failures. But the demand for forgiveness that I often encounter can pose a danger for therapy, even though it is an expression of our culture. Mistreatment of children is the order of the day, and those errors are therefore trivialized by the majority of adults. Forgiving can have negative consequences, not only for the individual, but for society at large, because it can mean disguising erroneous opinions and attitudes, and involves drawing a curtain across reality so that we cannot see what is taking place behind it.

3ChangingForNow · 18/09/2018 19:55

I am so happy to be able to reclaim my innocence. Now I am able to recognise the fact that I was an innocent child depending on her and she destroyed my sense of self. Each time I look back on something and realize how fucked up it was, the more I grow into myself not her narrative of me. And as I grow, my eyes open, and I see more about how fucked up it was. So its like a constant unfolding, a constant relearning of who I am, not who SHE says or implies I am.

Do you want to share the incident with your mother? Either way I really hope you can clearly categorize what energy is yours and what is hers. You are not her emotional plaything anymore.

And OMG yes that is probably why I hate small talk!!! I hadn't realised!

Notadrill · 18/09/2018 20:07

Very painful thread to read... I too have avoided children (and quite a lot of other things) lest I became 'like her'... As I age, I even hate looking more like her....
So true about resisting the push to do 'forgiving'!
Not an option for everyone but the best thing I ever did was to go NC.
Flowers to all of you fellow travellers.

MoonlightMedicine · 18/09/2018 20:13

I’m the only child of a NM and a ND!!! NM is now in mid stages of vascular dementia after strokes, and I feel duty bound to care for her once a week. It’s killing me inside :( placemarking this much needed thread for a later date when I am at my computer.

KingDavos · 18/09/2018 20:21

T1 I am new to all this so can’t yet offer any advice but I totally have a false self and I hate it. Was it counselling that helped you to dismantle it or other therapy? I hate it so much that I can’t be myself and now understand that I turned myself into this simpering, ultra-agreeable person to avoid NM’s explosive temper by saying all the ‘right’ things. Would love any advice on how I can let my real self emerge!

T1memachine · 18/09/2018 21:36

Yes KingDavos I have been having therapy once a week for just over 4 years and this has helped me identify and then dismantle the false self. (I actually had therapy twice before in my earlier life but it wasn't right or the right time - one therapist reminded me of my mother! Shock).

With the false self I built mine up unknowingly from babyhood as I quickly learnt that showing emotion of any kind was frowned upon by both my parents. It probably started in the womb. It wouldn't surprise me if my mother left me to cry in my crib, although I have no way of knowing. She did tell me once that she used to leave me outside in the garden in the pram all day so she could get on with housework, and I was certainly never ever held or comforted.

Anyway, crying, feeling sad, hilarity, fear - all of these emotions were mocked, shamed, or scolded and I developed a neutral facial expression and monotone voice to hide my true feelings. I learned to be incredibly forcefully independent to the detriment of myself as asking for help was also a no-no as it would have shown weakness. And I learnt that if I do it all myself the only person I am relying on is me so there's less chance of being hurt and feeling that pain.

In adult life for my teens, 20's and 30's I went through life wearing my false self although it had been created as a survival mechanism for my family home and no longer served me in the wider world. This resulted in people pleasing at work and in personal life, saying yes when I felt no, laughing at jokes I didn't find funny, saying I was ok when I wasn't, taking part in things I didn't like and fear of confrontation - basically no sense of my true self and no boundaries. Never ever listening to or even hearing my own needs. Cue a whole bunch of abusive relationships and people taking advantage of me.

It all came to a head aged about 34 when I had some sort of crisis. I lived alone and I remember wandering outside in a blur and it's hard to explain but I just felt dead. I just sat there and cried and sobbed for days and thought about checking myself into a hospital as I believed I was going to die, I didn't know what was wrong.

Thankfully I fought to find a therapist on the NHS (finances wouldn't stretch at the time and my local borough said there were no places). I had to argue my case and jump through various hoops. This sheer instinctive fight in me told me that deep down there was something in there - a life source trying to get out. I wasn't dead. The therapist helped me work out all of the above and after about a year of simply crying throughout every session I slowly started to feel better. She helped me practice gradually being my authentic / real self by saying no to stuff, or risking others' disapproval by saying or showing what I really felt, positive or negative. I started to "nourish" the little burning kernal inside me that was my true self so that it slowly grew and started to squeeze out the false self.

Eventually I met a guy and from our very first date I promised myself I would be 100% real - no people pleasing. In the past I would have agreed I liked Star Wars or something, just to look attractive, but this time I was the real honest and open me. I didn't know where it would go and I treated bit as a sort of experiment, tentatively taking it step by step to see if I could start a new relationship on this new healthy basis - and was very honest with him about it all. And the best thing is, 3 years later we are still together and he loves me for the real me. We are getting married too. :-) I never thought this would happen to me and I think on some level my whole life I believed I didn't deserve "normal" happiness (marriage, home, kids etc) and guess who's voice that really was??!

Anyway, I didn't mean this post to be so long. But I tell you all this in case it helps as I wish I'd known half this stuff sooner. The knowledge didn't cut out the hard work, but it can be a lightbulb moment that helps you to seek the help you need. I felt like I had been living behind a pane of frosted glass my whole life, and at the age of 35 that glass was finally lifted away. I may have left it too late to have children of my own - only time will tell, but I am convinced I'd make a bloody brilliant Mum (which for years I feared would be the reverse). I am now living my life the way I want to and reclaiming my life. As a result I feel more like I'm 25 as I missed out on so much of the "normal" stuff.

As I said above, my actual interactions with my NM are still triggering, and recently with my wedding she has a sudden excuse to try and take control again. So its constant daily work to try and get to a better place like 3ChangingforNow who seems to have made incredible progress.

OP posts:
user764329056 · 18/09/2018 21:55

Thanks for starting such a thoughtful thread OP, am NC with narc mother and siblings, I have effectively removed myself from a large family to a place of being alone with no relations, a decision I had to take to protect myself after a lifetime of trying to make sense of all the madness.
Consequences for me include:
Being hyper vigilant which is exhausting but it’s a behaviour I learned at a very young age
Massively independent to the point of never being able to ask for help as I don’t feel I deserve it
Messed up romantic/sexual relationships by the dozen
Never being able to put myself first or express my needs
Sickening people-pleasing
The list goes on ad infinitum

Will be watching this thread with interest and thanks for creating a place where we can feel safe and listened to x

KingDavos · 19/09/2018 20:35

Thanks T1, that is a very inspiring story! And congratulations on your upcoming wedding.

I can identify so much with what you said - pretending to like things I didn’t, agreeing to do things I didn’t want to do, etc all as a result of being made to feel that people might not like my opinion, or me, if I say what I really think. Just having this dawning realisation is a step in the right direction and I’m trying to be more honest and say what I actually think but it will definitely take time after a lifetime of telling people what I think they want to hear!

I’m early 40s so it’s taken a long time for me to realise why I was unhappy and how much my NM has affected me. I am now having regular counselling but it keeps getting de-railed from the ‘sorting out me’ stuff as I have major issues in my marriage at the moment too.

I’m still not sure what to do about NM; we are still in touch but our relationship has completely fallen apart this year since I’ve started being honest with her about things instead of putting up with her bad behaviour and saying nothing. She is incapable of taking even the slightest criticism and will retreat for days followed by a full on assault via text or email. She swings between being nice and loving to toxic and cruel so that every time I think I’m done, she’ll suddenly admit she’s wrong and that she’s going to turn over a new leaf - and I believe her - but before long the drama will start up again.

Hugs to everyone on this thread and I’m glad that some of you have battled through and are coming out on top!

Bitrustyandbusty · 20/09/2018 06:19

I have recently come to the understanding that my mother actually resented me, that I was unwanted, and an inconvenience.

There are a number of possible underlying reasons for this, logically, based on what I understand of background and how this negativity manifested in my daily life.

However, I am now having to come to terms with the knowledge that I will never actually know what caused her behaviour.

So I will never know for sure why I was denigrated, shamed, blamed, disrespected and disregarded, by her and then by other family members, purely to justify her own negative feelings and attitude towards me.

But does that actually matter? I was an innocent child, and she wilfully damaged me. It was all on her, and nothing to do with me. Nothing I could have done, ever, would have changed her attitude to me.

On the positive side, she did not break me. People commend me for my strength of character, my ability to always say what I think, to explain/justify what I think, and my integrity.

Rebelling against illogically being labelled ‘bad’ from birth maybe has its upsides 😊

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread