Told the truth

[Lotsoflaughs]

Recently discovered a friend was having a whole reem of affairs spanning a number of years. Her Dh has no idea. I told her how I felt last week and that I had a problem with her behaviour.

Result....no longer speaking to me. Doesn’t view me as a trusted friend anymore.

Who was in the wrong?

In the wrong in what way?
There is many ways to look at your interactions.
What reaction did you expect from telling her your views on her life?

Personally - i’d also distance myself from anyone who is this judgemental.
One can disagree with a friend, worry about them, ask them if they are sure it’s the best parh for them - BUT for me judgements aren’t part of friendship.

However, I am not you and you have your own measuring stick for right/wrong. Everyone does.
So - it doesn’t really matter what others think of this.

Hi OP
I think you know that someone who is capable of that level of deceit, cunning and betrayal is not someone you ever want to be too close to. I’m sure she can be great fun, and have many positive qualities. But you know that in there lies a dark narcissistic heart. In my experience - people (men and women) who treat their partners with such contempt lack integrity in many other aspects of their lives.
She has blocked you because you have held a mirror up to her soul - and she can’t handle the shame.
As it’s a woman - someone may suggest that you don’t know the full story - perhaps she is being abused or that her DH is unfaithful too. But it seems to me that you know all you need to know.

Years ago I might have said just move on. As I’ve get older I think more about the harm done to innocent victims by these kinds of people, and more tempted to expose them. But I’m not making any judgment call there.

MMomDD - are you for real? Judgements are not part of friendships??? Maybe not - but surely shared values are? So what if you found out a friend was a thief, rapist or paedophile - would you still be their friend and not "judge"

OP - I get you. This is a shit situation. Presumably if she's your friend you know her DH too - I totally get you. And speaking as someone on the receiving end of an affair whose "friends" knew - well, they are not my friends any more

I've ended a friendship with someone before who kept cheating on her husband with different men. I just couldn't be close to her anymore. The lies she told him were unbelievable and I couldn't trust her anymore. It was uncomfortable every time I was around her husband (he was a sweet man) and she was acting as if everything was okay.

I get you and do not think YABU.

I am for real.
Friendships for me do have a high degree of loyalty as a requitement.
In both directions.

If I saw a friend’s H in a compromising situation. I’d tell a friend.
If I saw a friend in a compromising situation - i’d offer an ear, and a shoulder to cry. Would try to understand what is happening. And help if needed.

People all chose how to live their lives.
I am a vegetarian, but can be friends with meat eaters.
I don’t drink alcohol - but feel no need to judge people who do...
And the list continues with lots of religious, and philosophical attitudes to life in which I might differ from my friends.
I know people who voted for Trump or Brexit - and even that I won’t judge. People have a right to be.
To me - personal life choices is part of that right.

Let’s not make this about friendships with paedophiles. Extreme antisocial behaviour is not part of normal life.

OP I think you've done nothing wrong.

However MMmomDD I do not understand your post. Wtf do paedophiles have to do with this??

Except @MMmomDD - when someone shows themselves to be callous, deceitful to those that trust them, or fraudulent with people, part of you IS going to judge that and rightfully so - because you know that they could treat you in the same way!

Well your friend is in the wrong for having a string of affairs but I am not sure what you hoped to gain from telling her.

People rarely capitulate when told they're behaving dubiously. They either think you're wrong, or know you're right but go on the defensive anyway.

You were right to tell her and effectively end the friendship, who would want friendship with someone capable of that?

There is a post up on the same board about a long term sexless marriage where the woman still has a healthy libido. But feels unable to leave the marriage.
Many posters told her to find a FWB.
Double standards?

But the question in your OP wasn’t about whether to have an affair is wrong.
You asked was your friend wrong to end the friendship....

And she wasn’t. From her point of view - you judged her. And didn’t act as a friend.
Since you didn’t mention anything about her marital situation - I can only assume you didn’t try to get a better understanding of what your friend is going thought.
So - SHE wasn’t wrong.

But neither were you. For you - some ideological/philosophical differences with friends aren’t compatible with friendships. So - you told her so.

So - it’s possible for neither to be wrong in terminating a friendship.

(@Mum2jenny - the pedophile comment was a response to someone who brought up judging/not judging friends. But what if the friend was a rapist/pedophoile.... etc)

@MMmomDD - nope - you still don’t get it. If you discovered that your friend defrauded people for a living - and you told them it was wrong - and they cut you off - have you done something wrong? That’s the question OP - and yes it making moral judgement - and NO - it’s nothing like judging people over how they vote or their dietary requirements or if they have an addiction - BECAUSE IT IS HOW THEY TREAT OTHER PEOPLE! Sorry to shout but you really aren’t listening.

@Dadaist

I do get it. I think what people tend to forget is that there are only few absolute right/wrongs in this world. If any.

So - there is a legal limit of right/wrong - we as a society agreed on - so defrauding, rape, etc. Is part of that and we, mostly agree on those.

For all other behaviours - there is a large variation of what each of us consider acceptable.
So - if yours and your friends definitions differ - it’s just that.

Infidelity isn’t illegal. Her friend isn’t commuting a crime. She may be a deeply unhappy person. She may be abused in her house and these affairs are what’s giving her strength to go in. We don’t know any of that.
And as a friend - instead of judging - i’d try to understand.

But - I already said, also - it doesn’t have to be Friend isn’t wrong, hence OP is wrong.
It’s not a zero-sum game.
They are both RIGHT for their specific world views.
They are just different

I would find it hard to be friends with someone whose morals were wildly different to mine. So, you are both right: you to speak up and her to confirm that you can't be friends.

But being a ‘moral relativist’ about religion or politics or personal choices is fine - I’m pretty relativist about morality - but that doesn’t mean that there are no rights and wrongs. For example I judge people’s actions on whether they cause harm to others - and then degree and severity of the harm they cause. It’s got nothing to do with wether it’s against the law (religious or secular). And please don’t invent some sob story where there is none - are you actually saying that it’s morally ok to have a string of affairs over years and cuckhold your husband because it’s not against the law? Are you saying it’s something that wouldn’t colour your view if someone. Are you saying it’s the same as someone who has a one night stand? Because I think if you do then you have no real moral compass if you can’t navigate your way between a moral lapse and sustained callous cruel deception and betrayal. I’d love to hear more about the ‘world view’ in which this is ok?

I would have just cut her off as a friend without saying anything...however, it's also good for people to be told their behaviour is crap...so good on you.

A couple of counsellors have told me I cut people off when they annoy me and should speak up and tell them why.

My view is that I don't have the time for that and they arent that important in my life, to bother calling out on their behaviour. It's easier to erase them from my life.

@Dadaist

Yes, I am saying that for me - personally - affairs don’t colour my view of someone.
Because it all depends and every situation is different.

Have a friend who I have a lot of respect for, whose wife got ill with a chronic illness a long time ago. And at that time - he was going to ask for divorce.
He stayed. Took care of her. Missed out on having kids. Etc.
He has had - what you’d call - a string of affairs. To have/experience something that is missing in his life.
While still doing the decent thing of being around/caring for his W.

And that’s just one example. Have other friends who have - or are having affairs. All in different situations.

So - while for others - this may be the most important criteria for judging a human character.
It isn’t for me. And certainly not when I’ve known my friend for years, and have seen them in various life situations.

Well @MMommDD i just think the difference between you and me is that I feel very sorry for your friend whose wife had a chronic illness and who needed fulfilling relationships outside of his marriage. But I don’t feel sorry for someone who is just selfish deceitful, dangerous and harmful and stealing someone else’s life from them. Do you see the difference? By contrast, you saying that, because in the 17th century some people were forced to steal a loaf of bread to feed their children, that means that you can’t judge people who steal, and someone who defrauds old people of their life savings should not be judged?

There is a context you see, and mitigating circumstances - and in this case OP has not mentioned any because there aren’t any or she wouldn’t have said what she thought.

Sorry to hijack your thread OP - but I hope the back and for with MMommDD helps to show that you have nothing to reproach yourself for.

I don't think I'd want to maintain a friendship with somebody who was a serial cheater. I just don't think I'd have the same values in common with them, and that's important to me with my closest friends. I have friends who voted for parties and policies I can't begin to empathise with, and they are less close friends and that's okay, I just know to avoid politics with them. It's not like I vet my friendships based on voting record and fidelity approach, but it seems to be a correlation and I don't think it's unrelated.

I had a girls night in one with two colleagues/friends. They rounded up on me because I said I would not be the other women, because for me I couldn't do that to another woman. I was careful with wording and totally accepted that they didn't feel the same but they really laid into me about it. It is something I was thinking about earlier today, noticeable that it stuck with me for 4+ years, because I was just so surprised that the people taking the outraged moral high ground were those with the lowest moral ground IYSWIM. We could have gone on to become closer friends, but we didn't share outlook on life on several things and I didn't want to develop a close friendship with them, I just don't think we were particularly compatible. Weird, and they tried for ages to invite in which was very flattering, but no.