Need to shout and cry, can I do it here?

[4ameternal]

Does anyone mind if I shout a few things that I'd like to shout at DH but can't? He makes me feel shit about myself. Not because he's cruel and unkind etc, but because he has never shown any confidence or interest in who I am and what I'm capable of doing. He never wants to go out (now uses DD as an excuse), never compliments me (he thinks a compliment is whistling and saying 'hello sexy', is awkward with friends, can't just kick back and relax and makes comments about people that I don't like (bordering on racist and intolerant). Over the years I've found myself becoming similar to him because it's hard to relax and have a laugh if you've got a great big rock of silence sitting next to you, and hard to retain your values when the person who's supposedly closest to you makes negative comments all the time. I am intelligent and read loads, take an interest in people and the world around me. All he reads are sports pages and won't ever have any kind of conversation with me. His idea of enthusiasm is 'it was good/nice'. Now I'm feeling insecure about finishing my MA with a one year-old and another one on the way. Instead of making me believe in myself and feel strength he tells me that I shouldn't be doing it because I'm pregnant and the stress will damage the baby. This is my last chance to finish it. He doesn't seem to understand at all why it's so important to me, probably because he's always never tried to achieve highly in his life and takes a very laid-back approach towards education. I cry endless tears over the way he makes me feel and how trapped I feel by being with him. The relationship is 'fine' and nothing is 'wrong', except that I know that being with him makes me a pathetic, under-achieving, self-doubting sap. I despise myself for being this person.

Sorry, I just needed to say that. Feel utterly crap and hate him right now. But what can I do?

It sounds like you're having a hard time.

Does he have any good qualities? What drew you to him in the first place?

Do you love him? Do you want to stay with him?

Is couples counselling an option?

Same questions as NQC really.

Here's some non-helpful advice... you can remember that you're tremendous for a start. You certainly sound tremendous.

have to go and get children to school so can't write more.. but sounds like you have much more of a life than him and he's insecure about that.. why else try to pull someone down all the time? we all have to make compromises to get along but seems like he's forgotten everything he loved about you in the first place. don't lose your determination to do your own thing.

was your relationship ever good? the way you wanted it?

Tovik your 'non-helpful' advice has made me cry. He would never think to use that word about me, I would never use it about myself.

He does have many good qualities, and he is a fantastic father to DD who adores him. Our relationship has always been a bit of a tug of war between me wanting to explore life and him wanting to stay put and watch tele. In the end I lose out as how can you force someone to do something they just won't? It has driven me to frustration and leaving him on a few occassions. The last time I moved out and was extremely depressed, felt that I would never be who I truly wanted to be.

We have had times of real pleasure and lots of fun when we were younger, and we are completely united where DD is concerned. But you're right Tovik, he does put me and others down, and it is because of his lack of self esteem and insecurity in himself. Which I have tried and tried and tried to help him with but he just shuts me out. My problem is that I have little self-confidence myself, and so find it hard to really say what I want, and feel that he never knows the real me because he never tries to know the real me. I feel like I'm living a lie, putting on a happy smiley face to everyone around me and pretending that all is fine (and on a day to day basis it is ok) but then feeling weak and pathetic when he's with me.

I'm trying to work out how to talk to him about this without crying and making myself look stupid and hysterical. Sorry this has all turned into a bit of a long rambling weep.

My advice would be to work on your own self esteem first then you won't feel the need for him to make you feel good about yourself.

Don't let his inability to show you how much he admires and respects you bring you down. You know your own worth xx

hello only just come back
sorry to make you cry but you do sound like a good sort who is doing best to keep everyone happy with no one doing the same for you. If no one else is your "armchair" to collapse into when you want to stop the world and get off, then you must be your own "armchair" even though it's not fair. It's really hard though, I've had to do it when my dh is emotionally absent, but I think loads of us do it. Sometimes I think it's the only thing that keeps the world going round! sometimes there's no point in talking to partner about it because you just end up sounding a bit moany. last bit of advice YOU MUST MUST FINISH your MA don't let his lassitude put you off that. Can't believe you're doing it frankly with a teeny tiny one and another one due. That's tough. Which means you MUST be tremendous!

ps what's your ma?

I do try to work on my self esteem, but there's always this nagging little voice in my head telling me how crap I am, and then he says something that backs it up. The reason he is concerned about me finishing is that apparently I 'don't handle stress well' and he's worried that it'll be bad for me and the baby. I don't handle stress well, at least, I handle it the way i handle it which is not his way, so him saying that just confirms my own doubts.

It is tough trying to finish - it's become like an albatross round my neck. I keep kicking myself because I deferred it for a year because we were organising our wedding and I was pregnant last year so thought it was all too much. Now I just feel overwhelmed but know it's now or never (I'll never do it with two little ones). So it's my own fault for not getting it done a year ago, but still he doesn't seem to get why it's so important to me.

Armchair is right - how I could do with one instead of being one endlessly! MA is in children's literature and education. One of the times when I feel happiest is when I'm in the library studying.

well if he's never going to realise how important it is, then stop worrying what he thinks. There probably isn't a single objective person who'd dismiss it as unimportant. he's probably just envious that you have something to be proud of. stick at it. what a feather in your cap to get it under these conditions. sounds interesting too.

I think you have to be VERY strong, be your own cheerleader if you like and just finish it.

I spent my childhood watching my parents drag each other down in different ways, and would never want that for my own family. Hard to describe briefly because I have to go out in a minute, but short summary...
father from working class family, clever, got to grammar school and university. Teacher. Idealistic. Met my mother 9 yrs younger who was school secretary and who had huge self esteem issues and lack of confidence. Worshipped her family but to this day she can't see how they damaged her by taking her out of school a lot to look after her ill sister's kids. Left school at 14, unlike her sis and bros who got a good education.
My mother expected my father to bolster her up to a ridiculous extent and relied on him totally for her own happiness.

I find it hard to think about this without getting cross. Basically my dad lost his get up and go - most likely depressed. Mum also depressed I think looking back and constantly criticising my father on the one hand for lack of drive and on the other hand they would BOTH scoff at anyone who showed a thread of ambition eg by seeking promotion, going the extra mile etc.

Horrible atmosphere; they were in many ways loving parents, but this was deadly. I got into grammar school myself, and then worked hard to get to university but frankly with little help from either of them. My mother I think didn't like me doing well academically, as it was seen as working "too hard" or being "tiring" or in some vague way bad for me.

You will feel better about and FOR yourself and your child/ren if you go the extra mile now, hard tough it is. Please don't let him drag you down. Maybe your dh is mildly depressed ? could that be possible. We all have low points but he sounds really quite flat and unenthusiastic. Please don't take that the wrong way; you mention his good points but don't let your marriage go the way of my parents', which just got worse basically until sadly my father died.

I'm immensely impressed with what you're achieving; you sound pretty tremendous to me. Good luck with your MA

Have to agree - you sound like a pretty special person to me.

Do you have any close friends you can go out and do stuff with? My friend's DP isn't interested in the same things as she is, so they go out separately rather than having to drag one another to things they won't enjoy. It works well for some people. It could help you gain your own level of self-respect rather than waiting for him give you what you need.

I also agree with the other posts that suggest maybe he is feeling a bit threatened by your drive and general interest in life.

Your little ones will really look up to you as a strong and interesting role model, you know. Especially your DD. Make sure he doesn't spoil that.

No great advice (if you weren't pregnant I'd say think about whether this relationship is what you want...but I wouldn't advise anyone to walk out on a family and home at this point unless it was totally unbearable...). Just wanted to say - it sounds like you are an extremely intelligent, reflective, sensitive person. Your DH may not recognise that (or perhaps he does, and can't express it?) but it doesn't mean you're not. You clearly are. Get through this MA and having your baby, and see how you feel in the short-term future. Definitely worth some serious soul searching and proper discussion with your DH. xx

I'm just overwhelmed at the lovely and helpful things you're all saying. I'm going to print off this page and keep it somewhere to read now and again when I'm feeling crap. Your support is amazing, thank you.

Tuppy, I hear what you're saying and feel for your horrible parental situation. But I can't contemplate anything drastic right now, have to hold it together for as long as I can. Looking back I think DH has always been a bit depressed - he certainly was when I met him - but has never (and would never) talk about it or ask for help. I think it's just become such a way of life for him that it's normal. His mother is the same - negative and miserable about everything, and takes every opportunity to put him down. I think that's got a lot to do with how he is, which is why I try hard to understand. But you do wonder, when you're making all this effort to understand, how much effort they are making to understand you!

Thank you all

4...good luck - maybe my post wasn't clear enough. but i wasn't expecting anything drastic like leaving him, more that you should try to finish the MA however hard (and I can see you've your hands full) because doing so will really boost you. Meanwhile the depression thing was just an observation, which you might get your dh to think about and maybe act upon.

Don't let negative miserable mil drag you or him down. because she's his mother, it may be he's just grown up with a dark view of life which while hard to shift now, could change if you can find a way to work it out together.

I mean I'm not depressive...but I had to think hard about why my parents were/are the way they are, to avoid falling into the same pattern.

You are all so positive. We had a long drive up the motorway today and we had a good talk about how I could manage my time for finishing the MA and how he could help. We didn't talk about our argument (we both find it really hard to talk about horrible rows), but he had obviously been thinking about it because he was really open to suggestions of how to work things (e.g. childcare, days off work etc.) so that I was freed up to write. There are still many issues that we need to work through, mostly related to how he feels about himself and why he puts me down/doesn't help me believe in me, but something has shifted and I feel a whole lot better.

Thank you, you are all stars. I still feel overwhelmed by the amount of work I have to do with a small baby, but I feel much more optimistic about being able to do it. And you're right - I must finish it because it will make me feel so proud, and lord knows I need to feel proud of myself!

Yay! well done you
get a first!

I wanted to update everyone who responded to me on here a couple of months ago and let you know where I'm at. Which is more than half way through my final dissertation with two weeks to go before the deadline, and I'm willing myself to do it! My supervisor has been amazing and so motivating, and my DH has pulled his finger out and done loads of child care so I can have the time to work. I've just read through this thread again to get some more strength from your comments. Thank you all so much. I'm going to get this - it won't be as good as I'd like it to be, and god knows how I'm doing it, but I am going to do it! I just keep picturing my dissertation all bound in a hard black cover with my name in gold on the side will myself to keep going.

You have all given me strength I didn't know I had. You're all amazing.