Violence in relationship

[Carmen99]

Last night a very good friend confided in me about some problems in her marriage. She clearly found it really hard to tell but but It sounded like she's desperate and really wanted help.
I was absolutely shocked. She's one of the kindest, sweetest people I know and the things she said did not sound like her at all.
She's married with young children and is pregnant.
I don't know her husband very well, he works away. I know they've had problems in their relationship in the past- mainly that he's pretty selfish and doesn't seem able to give her emotional support. She hasn't said anything about them having problems for ages though.
When I do see him, he comes across as a nice guy.
She has a health condition that is much worse in pregnancy- she is likely to need a number of admissions to hospital. There are lots of risks associated with pregnancy for her and she's under a lot of stress.
She's very weak and has to have her mum practically living there to look after her other children.
Anyway... she told me some shocking examples of things her husband has done while she's been ill which just sound awful. Yelling and screaming at her while she's having a treatment, continually demanding her to do physically demanding tasks that he knows she can't do. Sounded cruel and verbally abusive.
She then told me that now n again- (no idea what what means but she told me yesterday was first time it's happened in 9 months)...when he acts like this...she eventually loses it and starts HITTING him in a rage. She has hit him using her fists. Lasts matter of seconds. She says she just loses control. She was clearly very, very upset that she did/ does this. She told me she keeps telling herself when it happens...that it must never happen again...but it does. The children have never been around when She's hit him.
She also told me (guess she just wanted to get everything off her chest) that she's been self harming. When she's very distressed by his words/ actions.
She is desperate for things to change and would happily go to a therapist/ counsellor etc but doesn't know who to see and thinks most, once they hear about her hitting her husband will hate her on sight and just advice them to split.
Unfortunately that really isn't an option right now. Without giving details that would make this post identifying, they definitely can't split just now. I know people will say that's not possible, there's always a way, I would have said the same. Occasionally splitting isn't possible. Maybe it will be in the future (it would be if they want it) but not now.
She was so upset.
She knows the marriage is a mess. She feels absolutely awful about the physical abuse.
She really is a wonderful mum to her children (obviously attacking their dad isn't great parenting though).
I suggested chatting to her GP but she's terrified of social services being involved.
I do believe her that kids haven't witnessed anything...they stay with her mum some nights and both parents clearly adore the children. She's always said he's a brilliant dad.
I am struggling to get my head round that she has hit him- I just can't imagine it. She says he's never hit her.
Of course I'm biased. I have known my friend since we were kids. She's been there for me so many times...
And is a really quiet, kind person.
What can I suggest that might help them now given that they have little children, she's pregnant, marriage is bad. She sounded broken.
Are there any services that might actually be able to help?
I'm seeing her again next Friday night.
Living totally separately is not possible right now (but he is away a fair bit).
She did not come across like she was making excuses at all for her actions. She sounded like she'd has given up.
She just said the stress can't be good for baby and she has to change 'everything' now.
She thinks he would also be ok to see a therapist but thinks their problems are too big.
I've changed a few details in this to make it so she can't be recognised but the basic facts are all totally correct.
She told me she's never told anyone before and If I'm honest I admired her for telling me.
Clearly their marriage is a mess but how can I support my friend? What should I tell her to do?

This is a very toxic set up and I'm afraid I'm going to say the only solution is to end it. He's husband is abusive. She's under extreme pressure. I don't condone her violence but I can see how it might arise. She should speak to Women's Aid. They are the best people to advise her at the moment.

*Her husband

I think she should discuss with women’s aid

What’s the reason they “can’t break up?”

What would Womens Aid do? I thought they help women escape/ deal with the aftermath of physical abuse? Husband is not physically abusive...ever. My friend is the one who has gone for him.
Unfortunately -I don't want to go into why -they can't split up -as it could be massively outing and I feel bad enough posting this.
I've missed out something fairly fundamental about their circumstances...but it doesn't change overall facts if that makes sense.
So, if splitting won't be happening for now can anything be done to make this marriage less nasty and to avoid impact on kids and help my friend's possibly fragile mental health (I'd NEVER have said that before last night).
Could counselling do any good? X

Domestic abuse isn't just about violence. You have said her husband screams at her. Even with her hitting her husband, Women's Aid understand these kinds of relationships and that's why they can help.

Yes she’s being violent in reaction to his verbal and emotional abuse - that dynamic is what’s driving it.

You sound like a good friend- I’d reccomend you read “I don’t know why he does that” by Lundy Bancroft to help understand the dynamics of abuse

She should phone women’s aid too- they’ve heard it all before

I also suspect that the reason they can’t split up is actually really relevant here - she, for whatever reason, feels trapped here. What’s his role in creating that situation that she can’t escape from?

They can split up. Whatever these circumstances are, immigration, crazy religion, something else, they don't stop the divorce they just make getting to the new normal after divorce be a pain in the arse.

Frankly whatever the pain of divorce, it sounds like the pain of marriage is worse.

Please don't buy into the idea that the lack of easy options means there are no options. That's the kind of thinking that keeps people in awful situations.

My head feels really muddled about this... I keep thinking if it wasn't my friend, I'd probably feel differently about it but I can't get away from her being my wonderful friend.
I want to help my friend as much as I can but also worry about getting too involved if that makes any sense.
Is it worth me buying that book for my friend? (Though I'm not sure I'd ever give it her but maybe).
I can't stop thinking about it all.

Although it doesn’t excuse her physical violence, it does explain it and Women’s Aid will be familiar with this dynamic. Abused women often end up flipping, and then the abusive husband has grounds to say it’s her who is the abuser and use it against her. He can retain the moral high ground because he hasn’t actually hit her, but conveniently ignores all the appalling behaviour that ground her down to that point.

Now we can all say “there’s never an excuse for violence” and it’s true - regardless, she needs to get out of that situation ASAP for everyone’s sake and I’m sure she’ll find that when she’s out of his grasp all of a sudden she doesn’t feel the rage anymore.

The book is actually “Why does he do that”. Lundy wrote another called Should I Stay or Should I Go? Which might also be useful. You don’t need to buy it for her, maybe just mention it, but make sure she’s aware that she needs to keep any searches or reading out of her H’s sight, don’t let him know she’s thinking of leaving, cover her tracks online etc. Although he hasn’t been violent yet, his other behaviour sounds Worrying and she should be careful as this can be a pivotal time when controlling men realise they are losing control.

Focusing entirely on ideas to make things more bearable short term I wonder whether your friend reading up on the Grey Rock technique might help? It may not be applicable to her situation but can, in some cases, help stop things escalating in an abusive situation. If she could find a way to ‘manage’ his verbal/emotional/mental abuse of her it may at least save her resorting to hitting him.

I feel very uneasy offering that sort of advice as obviously she needs to leave but, without knowing the reason she can’t I suppose keeping things as calm as possible is all she can do for now. Women’s Aid is a good idea though, she needs to be working towards leaving even if she can’t do it immediately.

They are BOTH abusive surely?! Its clearly not just him. If its a woman people always say there is no excuse for violence WHAT SO EVER but here its being condoned!

Who exactly has condoned it Creeper?

IF this was a man hitting his wife it wouldnt be justified because she “pushes his buttons” there would be ZERO sympathy. They are BOTH abusive.

People have offered potential explanations but no one has condoned the violence Creeper. This woman has reached out to OP for help. We are simply trying to offer OP ways in which she could access help for her friend.

Were a man to come here saying his friend had told him he'd hit his wife and he was remorseful, posters would offer advice on how to help him.

Thanks all. I had a quick look at a website about the 'Grey Rock Technique. It is difficult to say as I really don't know him very well but from what my friend has said, he definitely doesn't sound like a narcissist.
For a start, he has very low self esteem.

I totally agree that violence in relationships is always wrong. I know what my friend has done is wrong. I never meant it to come across otherwise but where from here?? I can support her despite knowing that a particular thing she has done is very wrong.

My friend's take is that he is quite depressed himself, doesn't cope well when he perceives that she is annoyed with him (even if he has misinterpreted and she isn't annoyed at all), cannot cope when anything is expected of him or when there's any pressure on him. She feels sorry for him and doesn't sound like she has much (any?) respect for him.

She's just text me saying she thinks she is going to start pregnancy yoga to try and make her more relaxed. Obviously that might be a good thing but hope she's not trying to totally put aside what she told me last night. Yoga isn't going to sort out the marriage?

Sorry to be repetitive but what does anyone have experience of women's aid?

Yes, I have experience and I think it's the right place for her to start. I think she should call them. They can offer a perspective she might not get elsewhere. I found they were the only people who really understood what was going on in my life.

If his behaviour towards her shocked you and results in her self harming something is very badly wrong.

It's very difficult to know what's really going on from the little you know and have said on here but violence in relationships is usually a form of control over the other person. Again, not condoning your friend hitting out, but this sounds like it is reactive.

I would say that making her do physical tasks that she is not capable of doing IS physical abuse. Things like sleep deprivation is also physical abuse, it doesn't have to be hitting. She is reacting to this, and needs to get help as soon as possible.

I think my friend has put up with this for a very long time. She is currently pregnant (hormonal), very sleep deprived, heavily medicated, highly stressed and pretty depressed by the sounds of things.
I can see how things have happened.
Her head is so full...I don't want to suggest things that are going to rock the boat too much.
What would happen if she confides in women's aid? Are they likely to tell social services (she is terrified)? Would they give them some sort of counselling?

She has nothing to fear from Women's Aid. They will offer her support and advice and can point her in the right direction for additional help locally. I really think she will feel so much better for contacting them.

Counselling isn’t recommended in abusive relationships, whether his emotional abuse or her physical abuse. The best thing is for them to separate and have counselling individually, which they would both have to voluntarily enter into and take full responsibility for their own actions for it to have any effect.

Oh my word...I've just had a message from her saying she's splitting up from him but she doesn't know when! I'm so shocked. Very different to what she was saying before.
There will be more than one major hurdle that could potentially put her in an impossible situation with the children but she's not brought it up just now so I'm saying nothing.
She's followed it up by saying 'definitely in next 3 years' which sounds a bit less definite to me.
So, could anyone tell me-
She won't have family support when baby is born If she splits up- she will have a new born and 2 young kids. Alone. How on earth is she supposed to cope?! I'll try and go over when I can but I've got young children and work too.... what do people do in this situation? She does have friends but it sounds like a flipping nightmare.
She owns her own home jointly with husband. Is it likely they'll have to sell up?

It may well be easier for her if she does sell up so that she doesn’t have to be reliant on his goodwill, with a clean break.

As hard as it is, she will manage. People rally around when there’s a new baby so she’s probably in a better position than many to get practical support.

My ex husband worked away from home 4 nights a week when my 3rd DC was born and tbh it was probably easier not having him around! You get into good routines and learn to prioritise. She can do it. The timescales don’t sound very urgent but once she has made up her mind she might find she’s more eager to leave him than she thought - she’ll be able to see light at the end of the tunnel.

Financially with 3 young dcs she’ll be eligible for some state support and if she moves into rented accommodation she will get housing benefit too, rather than having to pay a mortgage herself (the benefits for paying a mortgage are more difficult to access and subject to very specific criteria.). She’ll be absolutely fine money-wise, which is a big relief to discover for most of us who leave! Especially as the spouse is often financially abusive, you find out that you’re actually better off being single than having crumbs thrown from a tight husband.

I think one thing you need to remember is that when someone confesses something like this, you don't always get the full story, no matter how good a friend you are.

If she becomes consumed with enough rage that she ends up physically attacking her husband, I think it's unlikely she has enough control to not do that when the children are around. Of course it could be coincidental that it has only happened when they were not there but not because she chooses not to do it. She says she is remorseful and tells herself that it must not happen again yet next time she still can't control herself and gives him more of the same.

I have a very similar situation going on right now so I might be projecting somewhat.

In my case, (we'll call her B) B has ground her husband down for many years, she is super controlling, verbally and physically abusive and their DD has witnessed it. Like your friend, B also blames her DH for pushing her buttons and making her violent, however there have been other incidents of violence that didn't include her DH. B also has a significant reason why she doesn't want to leave right now and as much as I understand that reason, I still feel she needs to get out now for DD's sake.

B is terrified that SS will get involved because their DD has some stories to tell.

Ask B's friends and some of her extended family and they will tell you that B is one of the sweetest, kindest people they know.