Son just cutting us off

[WizzbangWallopWot]

So my son has just got married, he and his wife are relatively young but deeply in love and we backed them all the way.

They've messed up on a visa application and it looks like his wife/our DIL is going to have to return home whilst it's sorted. Not the end of the world, upsetting but you know that's life. I spoke with DIL and son very briefly on the phone and they suggested trying to obtain a visa by what I view as dubious tactics that won't work and at best would be a refusal and worst god knows what. They've taken on a flat on a years lease (three months into it) he's heading towards the end of apprenticeship and they are saying if their tactic doesn't work they're walking away and he's going to join her returning home.

I literally said on the phone, you can't do anything dubious, you can't just up and go. I wasn't harsh I wasn't nasty it was a two minute conversation.

I messaged the next day saying look come round and discuss it and we will see what we can do to help, they said no is all too much we don't want to discuss it. We said fair enough we are here and will do what we can.

The next day I just text are you ok? No response, left it hours and said what's wrong you've not responded, no response. OH called so the next day and left message saying can you call? No response

So that's it, we express a small opinion and we're cut off.

They've done this before when we said that we would not stand guarantor for their rent without sitting down seeing facts and figures. A flat they now look set to walk away from. They lived with us for nearly two years virtual rent free.

I'm so upset by this, do I call again, message Again? Do I leave them to come to us? I don't want them to do anything stupid. I do realise that they area a married couple now but still think they could listen to Advice?

I think you just need to give them some space. Gosh, if my mum did this, I would probably ignore her too. It would drive me mad having someone constantly calling and texting and wanting some sort of validation. Very likely they are stressed and busy. I can go a week without talking to or messaging my mum. Life is just stressful and they are probably trying to work out what the heck to do in a very difficult situation.

I also say this as someone who is a non-British national who had to go through the visa process (it took me nearly 8 years to be settled permanently in the UK, it's expensive and massively stressful). You're absolutely right that they shouldn't try to do something stupid. It won't work and they will get caught. It will likely mean that DIL gets banned from making an application in the future, meaning she'll have to leave for good (or at the very least, an extended period of time, years...). But if they are going to be big married grown ups and make the decision to move countries (for her) to be together, they need to be adult enough to figure those things out for themselves. At the very least, they ought to seek advice from an immigration solicitor (I found this very helpful and very would the expense of the consultation). If it's possible to suggest that when you speak to them, great, do it. But otherwise, you have to cut the apron strings a bit and let them live their lives. At the same time, be sympathetic to how horrible and stressful it is to deal with immigration issues. It's awful. It took me 7 years to finally be able to exhale and not worry anymore if I'd be separated from my husband or children. But I don't think you can force it.

Undoubtedly you mean well but you do sound heavily involved in the detail of their lives, which can feel like an attempt to control.
Ultimately they are adults and can make their own choices. Even if that means walking away from an apprenticeship/ flat/ country.
All you can do is support unquestioningly no matter what.

How long has this 'cut off' been? Honestly you sound a bit overbearing and need to give them some space to figure out what they are doing and not make this about you being 'cut off'. Mindutopia has given some good advice, if you want to help them maybe research some decent local immigration lawyers?

They do sound on the immature side but they are adults. They have made it very clear that they do not want to talk, so why are you ignoring that message?

You need to take a massive step back, you've said your peace and now it's time to let them get on with it.

So your son said if they refuse his wife then he would stand with her and go home with her? And you said, he shouldn't do that?

Just back off for a while. Of course he would go where his wife goes. And sometimes you can't manage their decision for them. They have had free rent...let them stand on their feet.

If my partner had to move back to another country and my mum said " oh well that's life " I'd probably ignore her for a bit too. That would be an extremely upsetting and stressful situation and sounds as if you're not bothered

It doesn’t sound like you’ve been overbearing as some PP have said. I wouldn’t be a guarantor, even (especially!) for my kids unless I could be satisfied that they’d have a way to pay every month. And your advice was right about the immigration process.

I think all you can do is be there for them if and when they get in touch. You don’t need to apologise any more than you already have and you probably need to leave them now to make their own mistakes.

So they asked you to be guarantor, got the hump when you wanted to discuss it and now three months later want to leave the flat (both of them) who is guarantor now? Is it you? Because I'm guessing unless they've got the nine months rent to pay the guarantor is going to be mightily pissed off!!

What made them think that she was going to be granted a visa? They must know it's a strict criteria and does she fit?

It sounds chaotic and very ill prepared and trying to dupe immigration which is what you are insinuating is foolhardy to say the least!

How old are they? The sound extremely immature!

Wow I can’t believe the other posters.
You gave sage advice, do not fucking lie to get your visa, it might be ok. It might not end well. And it’s night and day how it might turn out.

They have lived with you for 2 years.

You’re allowed to offer advice. And good advice, especially let’s all sit down and work out what we can do. That’s what families do!!

I fear they just want to do something stupid and not take advice, ergo it’s easier to make you into the overbearing bad guy who is forcing them to make proper grown up decisions.

Likely, she might have to spend 6-12 months in her home county, it’s happened to friends who didn’t do it properly even though married, and it’s shit, but it’s best to do it properly and not cut corners.
They just don’t want to hear sense.

Your best option is to just send a message to say you’ll always be there and will try and help the best you can.

I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong.

I literally said on the phone, you can't do anything dubious, you can't just up and go This is sensible advice and I don't know why responses have been so harsh. If they are caught out doing something dubious to obtain a visa, the wife could be banned from applying again. They have 9 months of a 12 month lease left which, I presume, you did sign as guarantor for, so as you say they can't just 'up and go', without landing you in it as guarantor for the remainder of the lease. Unfortunately there isn't much you can do other than wait for them to get in touch again. I hope things work out OP.

@icannotthinkofauser
Well that is fucking life! It doesn’t sound like the op is a cold hearted Bitch. But if you can’t live without someone for 6 months that you’re going to spend the rest of your life with, and you’ll run away and leave huge debt in your own country and you don’t want to sit down with other adults who want the best for you. Then you’re a fucking idiot.

I don’t blame you for being upset. It’s difficult when our children do very obviously stupid things not to try and intervene. Personally I would not try and contact them yet and wait for him to contact you

Don’t contact them again. Leave it a week then text “we hope you’re ok. Call us if you need us”

No we didn't stand guarantor in the end, they wanted a decision in three hours and they wouldn't present facts and figures (that was the right decision we now see),

We were prepared to offer practical advice and help to keep this less stressful for their early married life. We could help a little with the flat rent until DIL got a job, or son could sublet (if that's possible?) move home for no rent and save money for flights? Visit maybe 3/4 times whilst this is getting sorted. They've got tv contracts, flat, phone contracts etc.

To up and leave everything would be leaving a trail of destruction and massive issues to come back too. The situation was caused by lack of planning and if handled correctly issues can be dealt with. To run away is not the long term answer.

I'm not even convinced they've got enough for the air fare.

We've always been there for them and we will always be! However, we won't condone or in any way assist anything illegal or foolhardy.

I won't contact them again, they need to come to us if they need help and we will see what or if we can assist.

At the end of the day this is between 6-12 months of issues. If they go other routes it could be a lifetime!

Thanks for your comments, with the exception of @icannotthinkofauser, what makes you think I don't care? I can't wave a fucking wand and say it's all fine? I also as stated above will not condone or assist illegal or foolhardy actions. Do you really think I should stroke their heads and say just leave, it'll all be fine?? Really?? What do you suggest I do to "show I care"?

Sorry pressed send too soon! @icannotthinkofauser I think I am showing I care a lot!!!

@lowtide thank you! I'm
Not trying to interfere but they are young and need to listen to sound advice! Too much rests on this, it could all go hideously wrong if not dealt with properly.

Sorry I worded it wrong, I don't mean that you don't care but if you said " oh well that's life " then your son might think you're not that bothered.

I didn't mean to upset you

@icannotthinkofauser thank you for that, my son knows I care. But it is life, life doesn't run smoothly and during their marriage they will have challenges. This is their first and handled correctly could be all over this time next year. Maybe saying "that's life" sounded flippant but it wasn't I'd say it about a lot of situations because life can e cruel but we have to deal with it.

Best advice is to contact an immigration solicitor.

They know the rules. They are used to dealing with the bureaucracy. They remove any emotion from the situation.

If you wanted to help you could offer to pay for the solicitor.

@wurzelburga that's already been done and they don't meet criteria currently. Therefore an alternative avenue is being sourced.

They know what needs to be done but it will take around 9 months (6 if lucky and 12 if unlucky!)

I think everything you said was correct but I'd imagine it really wasn't what they were looking for at that time.
They seem to see you as a financial saviour and hoped you'd offer to fix things, I'd imagine sage advice didn't cut the mustard.
You could offer to pay for an initial consultation with an immigration solicitor if you wanted.

@fuzzyfozzy cross post . Honestly I also contacted a further solicitor about the second route and said I'd pay to speed it up (didn't tell son this) the answer was you can pay as to give you the best chance but we cannot speed it up!

They've run out of time sadly and no amount of money can change that!

I do feel sorry for them, but they have to retain a level of head over heart.

I personally wouldn’t fund a solicitor either, they both need to learn that not everything is owed to them and that if they can’t be arsed to do the basics i.e planning, then there are consequences. They have a lot of growing up to do and if you are always in the background being the first line of recourse for their f* ups, they will never learn the resilience that we carry them in good stead for the future.

Let them come to you but don’t reward their entitled fecklessness with cash, they can finance their own impatience and stupidity.

It sounds as though your DS is the type to get an idea in his head and then rush headlong into it in his eagerness to make it happen. I have a similar relative who tends to act first, think later, and then be a bit headstrong with it all.

I think that any perceived pushing for contact on your part will lead him to just dig his heels in further. I'd give them both a bit of time and space to deal with the disappointment. He will probably get in touch again when he comes up with another plan or scheme.