No contact with elderly parents

[Firebe]

Hi, I've just joined and looking for advice/ help. Since I was a teenager, I remember having a fractious relationship with my dad, I'm nearly 50! It seemed to happen when I had a a voice, opinions and a boyfriend. I moved away, so didn't see him that much. When I was 30 I moved back as I met someone, my now husband. The relationship with my dad got worse, especially when I was getting married and had my daughter.

I didn't take my mum wedding dress shopping with me, because dad didn't like being left on his own. Mum would always be with my dad, she never spent time with me and my daughter on her own. It had been arranged that they would look after my daughter once a week when I returned to work, my dad insisted on bringing their dog with them. The dog was very old and going blind, I asked when my daughter was crawling they keep them separate, my dad didn't like this and told my mum to tell me to find someone else to look after hee. When my daughter was 4, he decided he wanted to move, they did, over 150 miles away. Mum never really liked it, I offered to help find a place nearer to me but everything I found my dad dispelled. 8 years later, mum had finally had enough and she'd been ill. They sold their house but had no where to go, mum was so happy but didn't seem to think that they should have been looking. My dad was doing nothing it seemed he was just paying lip service at her request to move. I offered to help, this time they accepted, I found something, they wouldn't come up to view, he wouldn't drive, get on a bus, so we offered, my dad didn't see the need. The move took 4 month's to arrange, in that time my dad spoke to me twice, mum always seemed stressed but assured me he was helping.

Eventually the day came, we travelled down to drive them back and the next day I went on my own to help them organise. My dad kept asking 'how much do you think?' I didn't know what he meant, he turned out he meant how much to pay the removal company. I had told mum the figure and just made a quip of 'do you two not speak to each other?' With that he got hold of my arm and raised his hand to hit me, his face was so aggressive.

I decided enough was enough, everytime I see him he makes snide remarks when I'm on my own, he makes me anxious and stressed. No more! I told mum and she understood, I told her I would always be there for her, she just had to call, she hasn't. It's been a month, I don't feel guilty about my dad but worry about my mum but at the same time I'm mad with her for enabling his behavior. Does this make sense? Does anyone understand?

It makes sense and I do understand. I have similar parents, but mine are the other way around in violence and enabling. It took me a long time to see that the enabling parent was just as abusive in their own way.

You can't feel guilty that you told someone to call and they didn't. I'm sorry it hurts that she can't be bothered though. It sounds like she puts him first and always has done. I think anyone would be angry about that.

There's a good thread on here called Stately Homes that has a lot of people from similar families posting. Maybe if you have a look on there you can see how it's definitely not your fault your parents are like this, and sometimes there's good advice on how to cope, too. There's no magic cure or anything but it did help me a lot to see that other people understood what it was like to have parents like these, to talk to people who won't judge you for not wanting a relationship with people who try to hit you just because they're your parents

I don't blame you for keeping an unreasonable, aggressive, rude man away from you and your family. Your father sounds unpleasant and not someone anyone would want to be around.

Your mother of course is enabling his behaviour and very dependant on him or frightened to death. Some people cannot be people in their own right and need to be propped up. All you an do is hope she calls you one day and you can be her support and guide. It is such a sad situation for her, but the power is in her hands to change the dynamic. I don't think there is anything you can do without inflaming your father further and in turn he can punish your mother.

So how near do you live to each other now? Are your daughter and mother suffering not having contact? Could you see your mother without your father knowing...having coffee when doing food shopping for eg? Could you pop round to the house when father is out? Why should he disrupt and affect everyone by being so horrible?

Can you change the present circumstances by telling him straight you will see your mother when he not around and he will have to live with it? I agree you should have nothing to do with him, he does not deserve you.

Oh thank you for your reply. They live about 10 miles away now. They're never apart. It was her birthday recently, I sent her a card and wrote a letter reiterating that I'm there for her, she's not called. Didn't even call on daughter's birthday. I'm an only child, so have no one who really understands. Husband and friends have been great but not sure if they're just saying what I want to hear. Mum was ill a couple of years ago and is a shadow of her former self, she was looking forward to me accompanying her on doctor visits etc, dad isn't that supportive, although she would say he was. Thank you do much!

Rinabean, thank you, do you still see your parents? I don't feel guilty about him, as I know it's wrong. At the beginning I thought about mum but now that makes me angry, that she saw him try to hit me and has made no contact. I bumped into someone at the weekend who had met withthem,?apparently they sung my praises, how I managed to keep my mouth shut! This is a weird thing he does, he boasts about me to strangers but has no idea about my life or ever shown interest!

If your mother ignored your daughters birthday and when he went to hit you, then she sounds self absorbed and it's all about her and there fore her personality trait. She doesn't seem to have any empathy for your position yet would like you to accompany her the doctor! Double standards there.

Your parents would not want the people who saw them to know the real state of the [dysfunctional] family, it wouldn't look good for them. So they would want to throw others off course.

My mother was indifferent, quite cold, unkind and disinterested in me and my life and my children...emotionally unavailable to me for most of my life. When she died her friend told me she talked about me proudly, and I was astounded. Also she left me an equal share with my half siblings in her will...I was not expecting, nor wanted, a bean. All very odd. So I understand your confusion, your frustration and yet wanting to protect yourself. Husband and friends sound great though, that will get you through.

I don't see my parents any more. My parents always alternated between bragging about me and slagging me off and I believe they still do. Obviously my successes are theirs and my failures are entirely my own

I think the idea that you need to be your mother's support and guide is a bit misguided. She is your parent and she should be supporting and guiding you. It's great if a parent and adult child can come to a relationship where they are mutually supportive but it's very unhealthy to try to do that as a one-sided thing where your parent hasn't been a good parent to you.

Like you said, she saw him try to hit you and did nothing, can't be bothered to ring in a month, what kind of parent is that? There's no suggestion that she's in danger from him, she just prefers upsetting you to upsetting him. It can be tempting to frame it as them being a co-victim with you but if they're not, it's unhealthy to do that. I used to do that, but it didn't make it true. But it was easier for me to believe than to believe the truth which was that I was unimportant to my father and he had literally no excuse.

If this was any other adult that watched that happen and did nothing - not even panicked in the moment, but said something later, literally did nothing - any other "friend" that couldn't be bothered to ring in a month - you would never ever be thinking you were to take them to the doctors. If a parent-child relationship is special it starts with the parent treating the child specially. And again, you'd think someone was a knob if they watched their friend nearly get hit and didn't care, it's worse when she's your mother not better. A friend who didn't make an effort, it's worse when it's your mother. She's not even a good grandma. You can't be the whole relationship by yourself, you can't create a good mother-daughter relationship with her if she won't try. You can paint a fake smile on and do all the things you should do if you were in that relationship but that doesn't actually create that closeness

You have done nothing wrong OP. Well done for standing up to an abusive man. I am sorry for you, you are probably hurting.

My parents were very similar - one violent and one narcissistic with too much alcohol involved. They were joined at the hip and I was pushed out and punished all my life. Any attempt on my part to establish independence was a cause of pain and hurt.

Another poster below talked about realizing that the enabler is just as abusive as the other party. That is so true. Parents have an obligation to their child to protect - not stand back and allow it. You need to move forward now. Have you had any therapy or counseling? I did a bit and it helped me. Just saying no more and not being their victim made me feel better almost straight away.

You have done the right thing. Focus on you and your family now.

Thank you so much everyone, I wish I'd posted earlier. Your replies have been so helpful. I remember an incident happened over 14 year's ago just before I was getting married. He was horrible, I actually said to would be husband, 'I don't think I want him there'. My husband thought I wouldn't cope with the guilt but now I wonder if it would have been better, as I've put my family through so much and me! He didn't even do a speech, but my husband remembers him taking him to one side and saying 'you look after her, like I've looked after her mum for all these years'. My husband always thought this was odd. I realise that it's been a bizarre relationship, as long as it was in 'their' world it was OK, anything outside was a struggle for them. Asking them to my graduation was like pulling teeth, he would never admit it but it was about driving there. Year's ago a friends dad was taking her to the airport for a holiday. I said 'dad, would you do that for me?' 'No why would I do that, when you can get there'. My friend said to me the other day, you've never asked for anything, but I think I was too scared to ask, as I knew it would probably be a no.

I have the constant criticism and the public praise.

She would have a go at me when I told her my plans ( silly niave etc)

But I over heard her telling people of the plans and the reasons why and how good it was.

Did my head in. NC now

You’ve done the right thing.

You you think your DM is a victim of him as you have been as that’s my impression from what you’ve written? You can only help people do much and then self preservation has to kick in. I’m glad she understood when you felt the need to cut contact. You can’t save somebody who isn’t ready to be saved.

Joysmum, I honestly don't know whats's going on. When this incident happened we had some snatched moments when he wasn't there. I asked if he was like this with her, had he hit her? She said he gets angry but hadn't hit her. My presence seems to make him angry, I think she prefers me not being there. If he does something that's not acceptable, I tell him, he doesn't like it, she told someone once, that 'i upset him' . She's chosen this life, I just need to accept it. That's what I'm having difficulty with, I hope it'll get easier, I just feel angry and it's not doing me any good. Whatwouldkeithrichardsdo2, I've started speaking to a Counsellor, I want to be able to manage my feelings, I'm hoping this will help. Thank you again everyone for taking the time to reply.

Hi all, don't know if there is anyone out there. I wrote again, my mum did ring that was 3 weeks tomorrow. Told her it would be lovely to meet up, silence. She said she tells people about me, bugs me up almost. I asked why didn't she call me to see if I was ok, silence again. She seemed to chuckle, 'dad wouldn't have hit you 'he thought you were going to hit him' like it was a joke. I'm so mixed up, just want to curl up in a corner and have a good cry sometimes but life goes on. Still thinking I must have done something wrong for them to hate me so much, I've brought so much sadness to dh and dd. Will it ever go, this awful overwhelming feeling?

No its not you, its them. Your dad is abusive and your mother has simply enabled him throughout. She made a choice and she chose him over you and threw you under the bus in the process. They have both failed you as their daughter abjectly. Its not your fault they are the ways they are; you did not make them that way. The two of them have not fundamentally altered since your childhood.

Have a read of and consider posting too on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages.

My guess is he is the Narc bully and she is the engrained enabler.

It is much easier for her to anger, annoy, hurt or disappoint you then for her to do any of those things to her husband. Therefore she will never put you or your dd first.

But remember, she is the adult and those are the choices She has made. One day she may regret it, maybe if your dad goes first, you will see a difference. But by then you may care a lot less. Which is fair enough and a consequence she has to deal with.

It really isn’t you that’s the problem here.

Thank you all, just being needy and this time of year makes you thoughtful. My husband is so angry with them it's hard to talk without it getting heated. Have a good Christmas all, take care of yourselves.

She's like the person who tells you to ignore a bully, as if that ever works. By ignoring his behaviour she implies you are wrong and/or silly.

Oh silly you to be upset at your dad, he's always been like that. Silly you to be upset at xyz, you're reading too much into things. You're too sensitive/greedy/angry/moody/needy/indifferent/difficult.

You can fill in any word you like. Your mother has chosen to ignore his behaviour, and to do that, she has to ignore you too. If she cared enough, she wouldn't ignore you. It's harsh, so harsh, I'm sorry, but it's true.

Go NC, give yourself a timeframe if you must. Relax for 6 months and see how life is without the constant toothache of not knowing what's going to happen next.

peekyaboo, I've been NC since beginning of August. Walked out that day and not been back. You're right, I know you are, although this is hard in a weird way it used to be darn site harder? I realise this behaviour isn't right, I just grieve for what I dont have, I know they will never change I'm annoyed with myself for putting up with it. This site is good for me, people who dont understand, say 'oh, was he ill, I'm sure he didn't mean it'. It's been happening for years and like you say, I need to take time to recover. Thankyou

NC would mean a complete break, and you've tried to keep in touch with your mum. I think you need to go totally NC with both of them to get everything settled in your own mind. It doesn't happen quickly, but while you're still trying to keep a relationship going with your mother, you don't have the space you need.

My mum stayed with my horrible dad. She enabled everything he did and said, and I really resent her for it now. Why did she never stand up for me, when I was just a child and couldn't defend myself? If your mum is too weak to help you, you're better off without poison in your life.

Yes, I think you're right peekaboo. They sent cards which annoyed me, it always makes me feel guilty. She was I'll last year, hospitalised, the first time in years I had 1 to 1 time in hospital but only short, he made sure I wasn't left with her too long. I asked her to come home with me to, to look after her she wouldn't. I know your right, I just feel people they know judge me, I'm not the shy retiring type, I say it like it is so I think some people think it's me. I've had to be like this though, I see now this is why. I'll get there. X

Hi All, not sure if anyone is out there? I was worried about my mum, so a friend advised I call her. I did this in the summer, she asked me to come and see her as my d is getting old. Again, I felt guilty, even though she didn't acknowledge my 50th and then didn't send their only gd a birthday card, she said she forgot as d hadn't been well. They came to my house with a card with £20 note. They don't seem to get it, they make me feel so guilty as they are old and getting frail but there is nothing from them, I was stronger but am failing again, why do I let them get to me?

OP..just a thought but do you think your mum is embarrassed by your dad? That she is trying to protect you from him and his outbursts? Choosing instead to placate him to protect you? Its not an unjeard of concept....Maybe she does this and never mentions you to your dad for a quiet life then when he thinks of you it all flares up again and she has to try to keep things smooth because of her clumsy way trying to protect you?

Sallycinammon, yes, I have thought that too. Then she asked me to go and see him because he was getting old? If only she would tell me what's going on.