Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Hoarding help

40 replies

siblingofahoarder · 01/09/2018 00:40

My sister is a hoarder. She has a partner and two children (7 & 9), and lives in a small 2 bed house. The children share, and it won't be big enough for them both longer-term. We rarely go round to their house, partly because there is nowhere to sit (barely enough space for them really, let alone visitors). The children have a small table and chairs in the living room they use for eating and crafts; that is always accessible even if nothing else is.

There is a path just wide enough to walk through the living room (which is open plan with the kitchen, and the front door opens directly into it), and enough room to move around in the kitchen, though there's lots of stuff on worksurfaces and around the edge of the floor. The bathroom is relatively uncluttered. The children's bedroom has little floorspace anyway as it's so small and has two beds in, but the shelves and cupboard are overflowing. The adults' bedroom has stuff everywhere (just enough room to walk to the bed and window).

Some of it is the stereotypical things that might come in handy some day (e.g. stuff that can't be recycled but she is unwilling to throw it away), some is old clothes (both hers and children's) and cloth nappies, some is toys (they don't need that many, nor have space for them). I would never say there's such a thing as too many books though, and at least most of those are on shelves Wink And some is temporarily stored for charity volunteering she does (and therefore changes regularly).

She is unwilling to get rid of things without getting money for them (though obviously they are not earning her anything while filling up her house, so I suspect this is somewhat of an excuse), so I have tried to help her sell it before, but only managed to get rid of a small proportion, and I'm sure more has accumulated since anyway, as the underlying issue has not been resolved.

They don't have the use of their dining table as it and the chairs are always covered in stuff. The coat cupboard is mouldy, though it's the sort that might be anyway (with no ventilation, on a poorly-insulated external wall), but it would be lower-risk if emptier.

The house is obviously more of a fire hazard than average (they don't smoke), but not dirty, just messy. There are various DIY bits that could be done more easily if the mess was cleared, but nothing very urgent, mostly cosmetic. They have had tradespeople in to fit a bathroom, and fix things when necessary.

Her children seem fairly well-adjusted. The older one is somewhat anxious, though that could be because he was parented less responsively than the younger one in the early years, and he seems to be growing out of it anyway. They have good relationships with friends at school etc, and their cousins. Obviously their friends don't visit the house, but they meet elsewhere, and since their school is some distance away and their peers don't live locally, it's unlikely they'd go round there anyway. She is otherwise pretty organised and does lots of activities with them (both in and out of the house), and cooks from scratch every day (don't know how; I couldn't stand cooking in her house!).

Her partner hates it but hasn't been able to make much difference. I've been told they could afford a bigger house but he doesn't want to move in case the new house ends up like this one.

She hates any of us (me, my sister, my mum, her partner) mentioning it, or even referring to it indirectly (e.g. saying "we can't go round to X's" when making plans). She knows it's an issue but doesn't seem willing/able to do anything about it at this stage.

I don't want to involve any authorities myself, as I'm sure they would make things worse, not better (certainly overall, even if not in that specific regard) and she might never forgive me anyway. So that would likely be a net negative. Plus the children don't seem to be suffering from it particularly so far.

I've read various websites on the topic, and there doesn't seem to be a great deal someone else can do about it. They seem to need to be ready to deal with it themselves.

Any advice from someone who has had a hoarding family member, or has been a hoarder themselves, and got over it? What would you have found helpful for someone to do/say? I don't want her to end up living alone with piles of newspapers when she's 60. And obviously it would be better for the whole family if it was resolved asap.

OP posts:
sansouci · 02/09/2018 01:44

I can sympathize, although I'm nowhere near as bad. I've moved house over 30 times in my life so I think my "hoarding" has something to do with instability. My "stuff" is mostly in the basement but it does fill an entire room.Blush

sansouci · 02/09/2018 02:02

An extreme solution would be to get the family out for a few days (house swap?) and sort through dispose of the clutter yourself. There used to be a thing called Life Laundry on TV... I used to love watching it.

QuoadUltra · 02/09/2018 02:14

Proper hoarders need professional mental help. You cannot do it for them. I have hoarder relatives I have tried to help and it is like watching people deep in addiction. Nothing will get through.

If you want to help the children, find a way to get their mother some counselling. It is a horrible way to live.

siblingofahoarder · 02/09/2018 11:28

@sansouci yes we have moved a lot too; her more than me because she's older, and has lived abroad as well. I think the longest she spent in one house before now was about 5 years, and that was just before our parents got divorced.

I've read that disposing of it quickly doesn't work though, because the underlying drive to accumulate hasn't been addressed, so they just start doing it again. Plus they tend to find big clear-outs very distressing. But I have offered to get rid of stuff many times. She knows it's a possibility, when she's ready to accept help.

OP posts:
siblingofahoarder · 02/09/2018 13:17

I'm going to name change back now, so won't be checking this thread in case I forget and post on it with the wrong name. But if anyone has anything important to say, please tag me so I get a notification and come back.

OP posts:
EMS23 · 04/09/2018 21:05

siblingofahoarder I have worked with hoarders through my profession (housing officer) so have some limited professional knowledge of this issue.

Firstly I highly doubt social services would get involved. If you reported her, they would probably carry out a welfare visit but finding the children well cared for, as you've described, I think they'd be unlikely to pursue it as a case.

That said, it does have a huge effect on the children as some previous posters who have experienced it have confirmed.

When working with a hoarder, the most important thing to get my head round is how long it could take and what success actually looks like. It is never a house free from stuff. Hoarders do not benefit from having their stuff removed. They just backfill it with more stuff and the removal process can be extremely traumatic for them.
I have worked with hoarders who hoard their own feaces and urine which is clearly disgusting & a health hazard but couldn't accept it being removed.

Generally I will start with trying to build trust. One case, it took me a year to get a foot in the front door. One year of weekly visits.
A hoarder will do everything they can to hide their problem from the outside world.
I never express surprise or disgust at the stuff. Family are often kept at arms length because family tend to be more honest with their words.

Hoarding tends to have an identifiable beginning point rooted in trauma. The frequent moving as children might be the issue for your sister. It doesn't help much in solving it but it could be an opening conversation if she ever chooses to open up to you about it. Maybe that's why it's linked to the desire to move to a bigger house. You've said her DH won't move because of her hoarding and if she is traumatised by the moving as a child then she could be subconsciously perpetuating this hoarding as a way to avoid another move.

Hoarding training techniques I received and subsequently used include:
Making an agreement not to bring anything new in to the Home.
Making a plan to clear a very small area to begin with - think 1sq metre or a corner of a work surface per week.
There will be bad weeks when things do not improve at all or get worse. No bad reactions, no reprimands allowed.
Decluttering organisations do exist but I have had little success with them. Slowly it is being recognised as a mental health issue but mental health services are slow to catch up. You could persuade her to see her GP to discuss but it's not likely anything will happen as there is very little support available.

I've had most success with hoarders who
A. Have accepted they have a problem
B. Have reached a point where they may lose something more important as a result - their home (so I have had to threaten tenancy enforcement action), their child (I worked with a lady with an adult disabled child & the property was the worst id ever seen - it wasn't safe for her or the adult child in her care), their partner (elderly couple and mobility issues made living with the stuff problematic).

Most cases I've worked with have taken 2-3 years to get to a point where things were ok. Not good, or great but ok.
I worked with lots of cases that never got better.

It's a terrible illness and I really hope your sister is able to address her issues soon. In the meantime, I am sure you will be supportive to her children and partner.

EMS23 · 04/09/2018 21:12

This guy is good but may not provide anything useful to you

respectmystuff.org.uk/

MaxineQuordlepleen · 04/09/2018 21:16

There is an excellent self-help (and general support) book called "Buried in treasures" [https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_14?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=buried+in+treasures&sprefix=buried+in+trea%2Caps%2C152&crid=2MF6D1EIZLH64]]

DateLoaf · 04/09/2018 21:19

Placemarking.

Dontaskmyname · 04/09/2018 21:48

In short, there is nothing you can do. Hoarding is a mental health issue. Until your DSis decides to clear some of it out (which will be never), all your efforts or anybody else’s will be in vain.

Even if you get the house forcibly cleared, a hoarder will fill it up again, quicker than before and hoard even more stuff to overcompensate!

Your DS’s husband is absolutely right re. a bigger house. We have got family who have filled their house and two other properties available to them.

You can’t reason with a hoarder. Their urge to bury themselves in stuff is irrational and will respond to no reasoned argument.

The only strategy which could work is qualified psychiatric help to deal with the mental health cause of their outward behaviour. But surprise-surprise hoarders are notoriously uncooperative and will not admit they have a problem.

My sympathies to you and other family members who have to live with the hoarding. Honestly, you are wasting your time trying to get your DSis to see the error of her ways. She will not only not improve but will get worse at any attempts to curb her hoarding or to try and remove any of her hoard.

Sympathies, it’s hard. You might as well walk away now, save yourself years of grief over the subject and many a wasted argument.

Dontaskmyname · 04/09/2018 21:55

Keep your nose out and stop interfering. Her kids are fine as you said. Who do you think you are? I'm appalled at your thread. You seriously need to get a life if all you are worrying about is someone's house being a bit small and cluttered. Seriously you need to mind your own business. Appalling!!!!

Diamond Angel, it’s not a bit small and cluttered though, is it? The only useable room in the house is the bathroom. Everywhere else there is only a small pathway left of the living space, and a bit round kids table. The kitchen is overflowing, the bedroom is overflowing, you can’t dine in the dining area as the stuff gets the priority of place.

If it was a bit cluttered, I don’t think OP would have written on here asking for advice.

deste · 04/09/2018 23:15

The best advice I can give ( I have a business dealing with hoarders) is to call the fire brigade to come. They will say they are carrying out checks and can they come in and give advice. I have heard of children being killed in a fire in their grandmother s house because they only had narrow corridors free from rubbish. The house caught fire and the burning rubbish fell into the only space they could escape from.

PussInBin20 · 05/09/2018 09:49

My DF and step mum are both hoarders. It does worry me as my DF smokes in the house and they would have no chance in a fire. I don't know how to help them as they would think I was interfering if I offered to get rid of their things and would see it negatively as they both have huge chips on their shoulders.

They both realise they need to get rid of things and would happily throw away each other's items but not allow their own to be, so it is a no win situation.

I could take 100 items out of their lounge and they probably wouldn't know what they were!

Consequently we don't visit much and their house now smells as they just can't clean properly. I don't think they realise because it has been a gradual process over the last 30 yrs.

Thinkingofausername1 · 06/09/2018 12:11

You sound like my sister. Moans about my house. No matter what effort I've gone into get it nice.

Seaweed42 · 06/09/2018 13:12

Sometimes siblings and family are NOT the best people to provide support. They really aren't. Because they are over-invested in the person's issue for their own purposes and to relieve their own uncomfortable feelings about it.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page