Asserting boundaries vs issuing an ultimatum

[ItIsOkItIsASecret]

What's the difference?

Following on from some really shitty relationships, I have some pretty tight and well defined boundaries. I'm really clear about them.

If someone crosses them, I will speak to them about it and give them chance to put it right if they feel that is appropriate or walk away if they don't. And I will respond accordingly.

How is that different to, "it's me or..." because, essentially, they are similar.

Watching with interest because I have the same question! I have had really crap boundaries in the past, well no boundaries really! And I have worked hard on myself to establish them.

Say. I am happy to meet up with you twice a week. I need time to myself and time with friends. I won't even think about moving in together until we have been together for 4 years. They respect that or they can piss off.

I think boundaries are very healthy and everyone should have them and not let others cross them.
That is of course in an ideal world.
Having boundaries is proactive.

Issuing ultimatums is reactive.
Something has happened and keeps happening and then it's ultimatum time.
If you have healthy boundaries then it should never get to ultimatum time.

Does he/she actually know what those boundaries are? It's amazing how many people just assume that their partner is aligned with their way of thinking. There's no harm in spelling things out, particularly any 'deal-breaker' scenarios. (Remember when Joey in Friends dumped a girl for eating one of his chips?)

I think the difference is in the intent.

If there are things you really won't do or put up with, then you just screen out people who don't share the important elements f your world picture. Your intent is to find someone whose views and habits match up well enough with your own.

Issuing an ultimatum is telling someone 'do this or else'. The intent is to change the other person.

Banana that is definitely a boundary.

What about: i have boundaries around alcohol. I don't want to be with someone who drinks excessively. Let's say i meet someone whose alcohol consumption i'm happy with. If that changes, say they meet new friends and go to the pub more/drink more and it no longer sits well with me, at what point is bringing that up and asserting that boundary an ultimatum?

I think the difference is in the intent.

Issuing an ultimatum is telling someone 'do this or else'. The intent is to change the other person.

Yes, I agree with that.

So what if it's not a 'change' but a new situation?

Or one where you disagree on what is actually happening?

I would never want to change someone, I've always thought you accept people as they are or you move on.

But i sometimes find it isn't as clear as that.

OP - ultimatum is a on/off act that requires a choice. And it’s more of a nuclear button than a way to be in a relationship.

Boundaries are needed and can be useful.
However - when they are the type Banana laid it out - then they can actually prevent a normal relationship. When practical things are defined this categorically - it’s less a relationship (that is alive and fluid) - and more a rule based arrangement...
Life can’t be breactibed by a tinge by rules - eg So what if one were to be away for a few weeks and wanted to see her 3 times the week before - then what?
Grounds for a breakup?

As to your specific situation. As a daughter of an alcoholic - I am with you on this as a boundary. And have always told my bfs that.
And the way i’d deal with it is by talking first, sayin that it bothers me.
And that eventually it’ll push me away.
Then let them do what they decide.
And if you feel you can’t take more - then leave.
Ultimatums aren’t useful. People need to make own choices.

ItIsOk you can outline your boundaries and say "I am uncomfortable with people who drink excessively. I could only be in a relationship with someone who drinks a moderate amount (and specify what that means to you). I couldn't stay in a relationship with someone who drank more than that regularly/occasionally/ever."

Then if they cross your boundary, you have choices. You can think that they made a mistake and remind them of your boundaries and explain that you feel really uncomfortable now and ask if they realise how much this has upset you etc and see what their reaction is. If they don't give a shit, you can clearly see that they are not the right person for you and you issue your consequence by leaving the relationship. If they are contrite and understand what a deal breaker this is for you and say it won't happen again - then you think that they will respect your boundaries and it will be ok, so you give them a chance to prove themselves to you. If they say they are contrite but do the same thing again the following week, you know that they don't respect your boundaries and therefore they aren't the one for you and again you issue your consequence of leaving the relationship.

A boundary always comes with a consequence for those who cross it - otherwise it isn't a boundary. You get to decide what that consequence is.

If it's a new situation and you state your boundaries and they are still crossed then you end it.
Not ultimatum required.

'This is happening and I know it's new, however, I am not prepared to put up with it'
That's not an ultimatum. That is stating what you are and are not prepared to put up with.

@MMmomDD

Fortunately, it isn't my situation, it was just the best example I could think of to illustrate how someone's behaviour/choice/position might change increntally without ill intent thereby crossing a boundary.

I have no issue with walking away from someone who crosses a boundary just couldn't quite get my head around at want point in bringing it up could it become an ultimatum.

I have had something similar in the past where I have walked away and they accused me of being controlling and trying to get them to change. I said I wasn't trying to change them but they'd done something that they knew crossed a boundary for me and I was walking away. He said that me essentially saying "I don't want to be with someone who does X, you knew that and still did X, so now I can't be with you" was no different to me saying "it's me or X".

I like the proactive/reactive definition.

'This is happening and I know it's new, however, I am not prepared to put up with it'
That's not an ultimatum. That is stating what you are and are not prepared to put up with.

Thank you

OP - it also depends a lot on the boundary.
You mentioned yours are tight and rigid - and in those situations they can indeed become controlling.
No way around that. No way to look at it differently, but it’s your choice how to live you life.

Your initial post made me a little 😳. It does seem like you have had bad experiences in the past and now all your future relationships will be coloured by that. And that isn’t healthy.

In my experience - relationships can’t work if there are too many rules (or boundaries) - it’s just becomes too confining. And rules are always arbitrary, no matter how much sense they make to YOU given your past.

How about this:
A boundary is a statement of how you control something in your life: e.g. "This is how much drinking I am comfortable with."

... whereas an ultimatum is a threat, to control the other person's life: "If you drink more than X then this happens."

(borrowing the drinking example from above)

I don't think I'm quite right here, but what I'm aiming for is who is being controlled.

OP - wanted to add - the reasons why inflexible rules (boundaries) don’t work is because they are about the rule - not about the person and the relationship.

Say the drink example....
My principal objection to is isn’t the alcohol consumption - but my personal experience with how it affected and destroyed my father/his marriage/our relationship....

So - my ‘allowance’ of alcohol consumption / week / bf doesn’t depend on recommended units of alcohol - it depends on how he takes the drink. If his personality is affected. If I can smell it on him. If he feels ok the next day. Etc
It’s based on OUR relationship, not Units I decided are acceptable

Boundaries are what you will do or won't do - from some of my recent reading about this. You have to accept that you can't control other people's behaviour, only how you react to it. The book I've just read says that boundary problems are always yours to own and sort out, therefore, not anyone else's. Maybe you're putting a different emphasis on it?

The alcohol one actually happened to me. I was with someone who stated they were teetotal. I have the odd drink so I didn't mind if they did too but they stated firmly they didn't like drinking. No alcohol passed this guys lips until a year later when he started a new job and decided he was going to go out with the work crowd every week and roll in drunk at 3am! At this point, I stated this behaviour was not acceptable to me (as a boundary) but got accused of being controlling, trying to stop him having fun etc. So I did have that situation of how do I enforce my boundary, without controlling his behaviour?

We broke up later for other reasons. But this is my issue with the whole dilemma. Sometimes people don't cross your boundaries until well into the relationship and, at that point, it comes across as an ultimatum.

All good examples above. In summary: A boundary is for you, what you will do/not do. An ultimatum is given to someone else telling them what to do/not do.

Storm4star sorry to hear that but, yes, that is exactly the type of thing I meant.

All good examples above. In summary: A boundary is for you, what you will do/not do. An ultimatum is given to someone else telling them what to do/not do.

And then, by the same token, what you will/will not accept?

MMmomDD

I think that's where I am...

But some of my boundaries are tight and rigid. If someone cheats - emotionally or physically, that's it, for example. There is no room for conversation. I ended my marriage over an intention to cheat. I have no idea whether he did or not and that's not really important to me. He was open to it. And seeking it. Clearly, it wasn't a perfect elsewhere marriage but that was such a clear boundary cross to me...

I later had a boyfriend who was a real 'crane your neck to ogle anyone'. I pointed it out. He denied it/didn't realise/said he'd not do it, I noticed on a few more occasions and ended it.

LateDad

See that's where I'm not sure. Surely, if I state what I am comfortable with accepting, then i am necessarily saying if someone does differently to that I will end it?

I don't think I have a lot.

And I don't think I'm rigid or inflexible with them...

One that has happened to me:

Boyfriend of a year. Made a female friend during that time. Now, I've never had an issue with female friends - I have male friends, I don't have a problem with opposite sex friends.

This 'friend' was clearly hoping for more - flirting: pointedly inviting him to things and not me (but aways with good reason - they shared a sporting interest in common - something i wouldn't normally have an issue with at all), sending 'flirty' texts with 😘 emojis etc. Whilst deliberately blanking/ignoring/being rude to me. She fawned over him whilst being really quite unpleasant to me but not when others could see so he only really had my word for that aspect of it.

I trusted him but I began fixating on it. I began to worry about her targeting him when he went out without me (because she did), I found myself going out when I didn't want to so that we were presenting a united front. He did shut her down but she persisted and, eventually, the worry of it was beginning to affect my inner peace and I decided to walk away. I'd never seek to tell someone I didn't want them to be friends with someone.

He became upset and said he didn't want to lose me; I said I found him being friends with her was damaging my mental health and turning me into someone I didn't want to be. He accused me of making him choose; I said that was precisely what I didn't want to do and so I was making the choice to walk away.

He ended the friendship with her and said he wasn't going to let anything get in the way of our relationship.

I always felt guilty though that he'd 'chosen' me. I felt that i'd effectively said "it's her or me" which I had. In a way. But only to protect myself. And I was prepared to walk away. But I couldn't have carried on with it the way it was.

He continues to have other female friends who are no issue. He continues to meet women who flirt with him. He's an attractive man, I can take it. But there was something about her that was really upsetting me.

Was I wrong?

No you were not wrong.
But he was.
Did he say anything to get her to stop?
Did he say, pointedly, stop sending me these types of messages or I will block you?
Bet he didn't
I expect he liked having his ego stroked!

Tbh, he did make an attempt to stop the messages. Once they became flirty and he realised, he just replied with a "No" response every time and didn't see her at all. He hoped she'd take the hint but she didn't so then he ignored completely.

She still didn't stop so he blocked her.

The issue seems to be that boundaries = good and ultimatums = bad.

This is not the case. It is OK to issue an ultimatum, just as it is to assert a boundary. It is OK to walk away from a relationship because a boundary has been crossed or because of deal breaking behaviour from the other person. If they then squawk "But that's an ULTIMATUM. You aren't allowed those you BAD PERSON" then walk away a little faster.

If you are with someone who issues ultimatums you find personally unacceptable ("if you don't let me do xyz then we're over") or is forever issuing them over trivial issues then similarly walk away.

It's not the bare fact of a boundary /ultimatum that is the issue, it's whether the other person is reasonable and if you can tolerate their boundaries . There is no black and white answer I'm afraid.

That's like saying what's the difference between having a door and telling someone that if they have muddy feet they can't come in.

You have a boundary. It exists independently of anyone else's behaviour.

If someone steps over the boundary you can:
A) move the boundary to put them in the acceptable zone.
B) reject the person immediately.
C) state the boundary and tell them if they cross it again they are in situation B, i.e. you give an ultimatum.