Would this go against me in couples counseling?

[Mytwistedimagination]

Dh cheated many years ago. At the time he did it, we were struggling because he had chosen to join the military (after many happy years together) and was away from home most of the time. Which I wasn't happy with, having moved to his hometown the year before to work near/live with him. He had been flirting with a friend of his for a year or so, and had a physical affair. While coming home to me on a weekend as usual (still going out,
having sex, no arguments etc). Changed his mind about leaving me, but has lied about it (and subsequent porn addiction, also earlier looking for a ons ) until recently. She told me, he still tried to deny it.
Before I found out about the affair, he wanted to go see a marriage counselor. He also told me he wouldn't be telling them anything he hadn't told me, as there wasn't anything he was hiding! He saw someone, only mentioned the porn causing us problems, so she recommended couples counseling. Which I was reluctant to do, as I was convinced he was lying to me still, so would do the same in counselling.
Now a few months after dday, he thinks couples would be a good idea. I spoke to someone today but still don't think it will be very useful until he has seen someone to explore why he cheated and lied for so long (I was at one point actually telling him what he must have done, and I was right!) and how he can work on being a safe partner. But will this be seen as me being obstructive and unreasonable? I don't think couples alone is appropriate until he can admit everything he's done and understand why he's done it. But that his work to do, not mine, surely?

Before going down that road decide if you actually want to stay married to a serial cheat. Counselling is not a magic bullet it wont fireproof your relationship against future hurt.
In answer to your question though you have the wrong counsellor if your attitude is judged and seen as obstructive it is not the role of a counsellor to judge it is their role to offer you a safe space to freely discuss your issues understand where the other person is comming from and work out a way forward.
Id suggest you have individual counselling for yourself to work out what is best for your own wellbeing rather than focusing on his before considering it.

I agree. Can you have counselling on your own first.

No point in couples counselling if he won't be honest about what he's done.

Are you sure you don't just want to divorce him? He's a shite husband.

Wow you are spending a lot of time thinking about how he can get help to stop being a lying cheat.

Not once have you mentioned the idea of you getting counselling to help you with your choice to stay with a lying cheat.

You can't change his decisions. You can change your decisions. Focus on yourself.

OP, what exactly do you get out of this one sided marriage? So far you have made all the compromises. You moved home to be near him. You accepted him being away all the time in his new work. You tolerated multiple infidelity and porn. You risked getting an STI. You have received no sign of repentance, or any assurance that it will not continue like this.
Please see an individual counsellor to explore why your self esteem is so low that you would accept a partner like this, instead of kicking his wretched arse out of your home.

As has been said, counselling can only work if you both are willing to tell the truth. Marriages can only work if there is honesty from both sides. If you cannot be honest about what you have done, you will never get to the reasons why you have done it. Without honesty there will never be any trust. We went to relate, she told a pack of lies, which I could prove irrefutably. I would never go again.

There is no ‘go against me’, it’s not a court of law, it’s a therapeutic space to grow to understand one another better and find a way forward or a way to part as amicably as possible.

don't think it will be very useful until he has seen someone to explore why he cheated and lied for so long

I get that you wish there was a real, significant ‘why’ to help you to move on. It must be easier to be able to say ‘ah, his parents’ marriage was abusive so he doesn’t know how to have a normal relationship and that’s why he cheated’ or ‘oh, his self esteem is so low he doesn’t feel he deserves me so he tried to sabotage us’ but I’m afraid the truth is often a lot simpler and more straightforward, albeit painful for you.

He cheated because he wanted to, it felt good, and either he assumed you wouldn’t find out or he was willing to risk you leaving him if you found out or he believed you’re such a doormat you’d stay with him whatever he did. He cheated because it suited him and the rewards were worth the risk.

Aim higher for yourself, please, where are your standards? I would be looking into individual therapy for yourself rather than trying to control something you can’t (him going to therapy, what they discuss etc). Maybe figure out why your self esteem is so low you’re willing to stay with a man who has cheated with you on an ongoing basis and didn’t even afford you the respect and dignity of him coming clean of his own volition.

Get counselling for yourself, alone.

I think telling op that her self eesteem is low is a bit harah and overly critical.
Plenty of threads on here show people stay together or seperate after an affair and its not always due to them having low or high self esteem.

I get what you are saying about self esteem, and I have already been struggling with this, so please, no more. I have done nothing but think everything through over the past few months, and at the moment I am willing to stay and try to improve things, for a number of reasons.
I know all those reasons are true LindsayKola. There is no way I would accept a shite parent is an excuse for cheating yourself, or similar. But the issue is why he felt entitled to cheat within himself. Why his morals and values were crap. Why he could go behind my back, why he didn't end it with me before starting up with the bitch (who knew we were together)? Actually, I know that one - he was hedging his bets. I've done a lot of reading and questioning, but I think he needs to come to his own shitty conclusions with someone who isn't me. And he is therefore more likely to openly discuss it with. And figure out if it's likely to happen again or not. And be honest about it. Haha. And intellectually, I can also see how someone would do something horrible and try to hide it.
I'm not sure individual counseling would help me yet. I know why I'm thinking what I am, and making these decisions. I am doing the best for the kids and (physically) myself right now, even if it's mentally the toughest thing I've ever done. I know there's not much respect for betrayed partners who choose to stay, but leaving isn't always the best option right away, especially when the cheating was a long time ago and things have (apparently) been good since. The ability to trust is seriously screwed though, and I won't go to counseling for help with that! He has to prove he is trustworthy rather than me give him trust, if that makes sense.

@certificateofauthority are you still together?

Mytwistedimagination he may never get there and the why will never tell you if he could do it again it will just help him justify it if he does.
And that is why he wont be able to prove he is trustworthy because ultimately he isnt. He is capable of doing it, he did it and that will never change. Even if he stays faithfull for the next 10 years it does not mean he will for the next 20. Personally I dont think you can trust someone after such a betrayal but you can continue to want to be with and love them and stay together. Probably because love is irrational and emotional rather than a mental exercise.

Thank you rosetintedglass. I agree, nothing really can guarantee someone will stay faithful. There would be no justification for doing it again though. My thoughts were (in line with what I have read from many knowledgeable ppl in the field) that if you recognise the reasons, you can make an effort to make sure it doesn't happen again. If you want to, I guess. And that's the thing noone will ever really know about someone else.

OP there is a saying which I can't remember but basically nobody changes ever unless they REALLY want to. You cannot change someone else but you can change yourself. And the way you react to someone else. Get counselling for yourself.

The interesting thing OP is a counsellor said to me (after my husband had done something untrustworthy involving another woman) , not an affair as such, the thing is you can perfectly well stay but not necessarily trust and would be right not to do so, it’s your choice, however if you move on and meet someone else then it’s very likely you will start with reduced trust anyway that can take a long time to build. No one comes with a 100% guarantee . It seemed harsh but I have to be honest, I think she is right, I’m not sure I would ever 100% trust a guy again as much as I did

if you recognise the reasons, you can make an effort to make sure it doesn't happen again

What if the reason is that I wanted to and I could so I did. It's what us men are like, if offered sex, porn etc we'll take it, everyone knows that. The problem is that you found out and it hurt you. I should have hidden it from you better so you didn't get hurt. I am sorry you were hurt.

My experience of men in the military (yeah yeah nammalt) is that there is a very strong culture of that attitude.

Sing his praises to me. What is so absolutely brilliant about this relationship that it is worth betting on the chance that he might decide to self-police into not doing these things? Why would you give precious days of your life to this?

until he has seen someone to explore why he cheated and lied for so long
I think YOU need counselling on your own to understand why you thing you deserve so little.
Why you think you should 'settle' for a liar and cheat?
Why you don't think you deserve more?
Why you don't have the courage to just fuck him off and go back to where you have friends and family to help support you!?

Honestly. What he has done is despicable.
He has absolutely no respect for you at all.
Please respect yourself enough to walk away from this loser!

Sorry, finding out 'why' won't change him. You can't change someone else, only yourself.

Serial liars and cheats don't change.

You having counselling will help you understand why you feel you have to stay and will help build your self-esteem, so you can make the right decision for you.

Sort of as above, what if the "why" doesn't really exist.

It isn't always possible to reflect on ones actions and understand the motive. Post-hoc reasoning and rumination may just lead to choosing the explanation that best fits. I'm not saying he will invent one on purpose, but it may end up as pretty irrelevant. Hope that makes sense.

I agree couples counselling is pointless if he isn't being honest, though. Unless of course he feels he will be able to be more honest in counselling. In which case it may be useful, as the full story may unfold.

Are you still living together?

Mytwistedimagination
Yes, are still together. Eventually she understood that I only wanted the truth. Once that was established, and she could tell me what I wanted to know, not what she thought would make me feel the best, I could understand what caused the issues. We both decided to make it work and it has. She actually went to CBT therapy to try to understand why she was lying to me, but whether that had any effect is a moot point. However the trust is still a long way from what it was. We set aside one evening a week just to talk now. Openly and honestly, with no judgement. You cannot tell someone what to think, but you can try to understand what they want and why they think the way they do. We now both try harder to keep the other happy. It does work. It's like therapy without someone else. But if I had not got the truth, I would have left. It's over three years now. We both know that if anything more was to happen, or to come up, it would be the end.

@Mytwistedimagination
I would also like to say that she has really tried her hardest to make it work. Boundaries have been set, and adhered to. Openness and transparency are evident. There are no secrets, white lies (that I am aware of... Lol). I went through a normal ( according to all the books we read) phase of ' hypervigilance', but have moved from ' active trust' to ' passive trust'. The book ' Not just friends' by Shirley Glass was one of the tomes we read, amongst others. Lots of hard work, but most importantly, both doing the hard work and a genuine desire to make it successful. It's still a 'work in progress', but all marriages should be. Just my 5 cents worth.

I think him exploring individual counselling is a good idea.

However... sometimes the reasons for cheating are ad simple as:

I wanted to

Didn't think I'd get caught

Felt I deserved a bit of fun (breadwinner /stress)

Admitting these things is hard. That's all the more reason he should go.

I agree with you and you'd be within your rights to make it a requirement or refuse to attend MC.

Is he actually exploring having individual counselling to determine why he did what he did and manage himself so he won't do it again?

Or is this your silver bullet idea that you've decided he should do?

You know it can't work unless it is entirely his own idea to go that route, don't you?

God, I just couldn't be arsed

Trying to talk someone into being a decent person ? Waste of time.

Oh love.
Send yourself to counselling.
Don’t waste your breath on him.

Save your mental energy for yourself and the DC.

You’re tying yourself in knots seeking to justify staying in the relationship and finding ways to get him to change. He’ll change if he wishes to - doesn’t sound like he does, and it seems he doesn’t need you in order for you to stay with him.

You don’t know for a fact that his cheating and porn use was over a long time ago.