H will say he's done nothing wrong in 30 years so I should be the one to leave

[Elephant14]

I am ashamed to say I have stayed with my husband for 30 years. Our DCs are mid-teens so both still dependent. He is generally low level abusive, well, not sure what the right word is for it. All our lives together he has invented constant illnesses, every Christmas and birthday ruined etc., he has always believed I should do all the housework etc., that he should not be asked to do DIY, the house got into a terrible state and we got into debt. We've sorted that now (we agreed to all our savings to address both issues but I think he is going to say now that I took his money) He'd throw a massive tantrum if the kids didn't do whatever he wanted in a split second, they clearly loved him but were scared of being alone with him. Now they say he behaves like a child when I am not there and they have to take care of him.

The Taking Care thing is important, because he is now in his 60s and believes I should Take Care of him - well, he has alway believed that. He is retired, doesn't want to work any more, refuses to do anything in the house so having had most of it renovated its now all creeping back to the state it was in previously. He likes me to arrange everything for him, and if I don't this is an example of how badly he is treated. He said I treat the kids badly as well, so I can't criticise him for it, he's seen me shout at them so why can't he. He even bullies the dog - again if it doesn't do exactly what he wants. He wanted me to sort out some clothes for him the other day and I said no you can do that yourself and he starting shouting "you NEVER TAKE CARE OF ME" and stormed out of the house. All our lives together, if I try to discuss a problem he ends up screaming in my face.

People who meet him think he's such a nice little old man, but he's a manipulative bully. Its only now I can see the full extent of the damage that living like this has done to the DCs so I want him to leave. I think he should go so that I can stay for the remaining few years before we have to sell (we can't pay off the mortgage so will be forced to sell anyway). The DC's home is very important to them and both have MH issues, one is having psychiatric treatment. I can keep the house nice and ticking over on my wages and I can help him get set up in a flat my plan was to save up the deposit etc and give it to him after Christmas, - also I think he would want to meet someone else (to take care of him!) in his old age.

Trouble is, he would say that I have failed in the relationship because I didn't Take Care of him, that he can stay in the house with the DCs no problem, I am the one who is unhappy so I am the one who should leave. On the Relate website it advises that you write down a few reasons why you think the relationship has failed - I wouldn't know where to begin but whatever I said, he'd say no I didn't do that, you did it. No, that was your fault not mine. Rinse and repeat.

I want to stay here till the DCs are independent (although with one that might not happen so I'd just take them with me ifyswim) or we are forced to sell whichever comes first, then sell and we both take our cut and walk away. In the meantime, I earn more so I can keep the house going, and I have insisted he get a job to top up his pension so that he can cover rent (he doesn't realise that of course, he says I made him get a job as I don't Take Care of him and have ruined his life).

I am genuinely frightened of this man, he is the sort who likes to portray himself as the mild family man but behind closed doors he is a spiteful bully. I have to be sure of my ground before I bring this up because I know he is so unpredictable, he's never wanted to sort things out, he just wants what he wants and I have to provide it - if I stop being the provider, I am expendable. BTW I have never documented any of this and when people ask me what he is like and why I want to split up I find it almost impossible to think of individual examples I suppose our whole lives have been an example, every day something is wrong.

I am seeing a solicitor soon but I wanted to write this down and having done so I think I sound pretty pathetic and weak, big holes in my "story", he is entitled (one of his favourite sayings) to the house and that this poor man is being done out of the chance to live in it - which is how he will portray it.

He can say he's done nothing wrong, but you're the one evaluating the marriage and whether you're thriving within it. I'd also second that your mental health and that of your DCs is negatively impacted by H's attitude and behaviours towards you all.

There is no obligation to Take Care Of and you don't need to canvass opinion on whether or not you're reasonable to want to split and for that split to be equitable and according to law.

Given what you've written here I'd advise you to seek help, maybe from WA and seize the day. Best of luck.

I have got the WA number so I can ring them when he is out next week. Hope to see solicitor next week too. Thank you all for being kind - I was expecting everyone to say it sounded like I was just being unreasonable. Of course he will always say he was right, whatever happens.

Please talk to a good solicitor before you do anything. It may be worth speaking to a few in fact to find the one with the right experience.

I had to go to court for an occupation order to keep my H from trying to move back in to the family home after I managed to get him out. On all the evidence (daily diary, emails, text messages) two barristers told me I should also go for a non- molestation order.

You may end up having to pay him in the end but do not do that until you have had legal advice and you have a plan in place.

I had to find my H a flat in the end because he was so useless and pathetic at looking for anywhere and I also paid for the first 6 months rent and made sure he signed an 18 month lease.

I have since found out that he sitting in hundreds of thousands in savings/pension whilst I have only tens

The sooner you action proceedings the better as the children, like mine, are teens and will soon be out of the jurisdiction of the court and so will not be minded in terms of settlement

Of course he will always say he was right, whatever happens
Talk's cheap and most people know there are two sides to every story. Besides, as I say, what others believe isn't the point, you're the ones living the life.

His most aggressive action is getting you to support him. I don't know what goes on in the heads of men who act out their rage by getting women to support them, but it's not nice. They complete the pattern by acting the victim.

Do what you want - he'll act the victim whatever, so you've got free rein. You're the victim.

You are well trained in planning and doing everything OP. So plan and do everything you need to. Get your ducks in a row before he knows what's on the horizon. You cannot control what he does or how he reacts but you can control what you do and how you behave in the face of this potential backlash.

You probably have a good idea of what equity you have in the property right now, how much his pension is, and how much savings you hold jointly. You will each be entitled to half. Plus if the DC stay with you he will need to provide a proportion of his income as child maintenance. Whether or not you can offer him enough money to cover his half of the equity so he has no hold on the house and you can get his name off everything. You will need a session of mediation before the court will grant a decree nisi so if everything is provided at that stage it makes everything simpler.

It is possible that you will be advised that the Dc have a right to stay there until they are 18 in which case he may want a greater share of the equity as it will be worth more when you sell. Do you earn enough for the mortgage company to allow you to take on the mortgage alone? If so a clean break at this stage would be better for you and the Dc's mental health I should think.
You have tolerated this for 30 years: another few weeks while you get everything sorted is certainly manageable while you get your affairs in order before you play your hand.
Good luck.

The equity percentage should stay the same whatever the value of the house.

At LEAST 50% of it is yours OP, the more he drags his feet and causes hardship and messes around the higher % you get as he is causing difficulty and not being reasonable.

The one thing I would say is make sure you have access to plenty of money to fund solicitors if you are not entitled to legal aid etc. It very quickly mounts up

Do not take any action until you have access to funds for the lawyers to proceed the divorce and financial settlement - if one child is likely to be lifelong dependent as well due to health/disability etc then that will also be factored into any settlement

RB68 I hadn't thought of that, we have no idea when the DD's recovery will begin or how long it will take and yes she may well be dependent into her 20s because of it.

You know I really wanted to wait, I thought I could hang on, esp since DD became ill. I was telling friends "in a few years" then I said hmm maybe next year and then he started ramping it up - as if after all these years it couldn't get worse - and I just thought no, this can't go on. So next week I will finally get advice.

I can't take over the mortgage on my own, I cant buy him out. I need to get advice on the pension position; I do think that the solicitor will say I should stay in the house with the children because of DD's health issues, now you've mentioned it - moving her into a flat now would be really detrimental to her.

You've had some great advice about seeing a professional.

The divorce process is "no fault". It doesn't matter very much why the marriage broke down- it doesn't affect custody or financials. He will go round blaming you but there's nothing you or the kids can do about that. It's part of the abuser's playbook that everything should be blamed on other people where as an adult would realize that there is almost always part blame on both sides.

@elephant14, I'm only ''perceptive'' because I put myself through this exact same shit for 7 years. I wouldn't offer him money at this point. See what tricks he has up his sleeve. Speak to a solicitor. See what macchiavellian crap he pulls out of a hat after he's had time to plot and scheme and then and only then thnk about making a concession that you get something in return for. If you give him money now upfront without getting any promise (legally enforceable) in return then you'll regret it. If you have money that you have mentally budgeted for a bargaining chip later, then good, good to have that money, but don't show your cards YET.

The reality is you are married, you can't force him to go anywhere.

I've obviously never met your H but I can tell from your posts he won't leave even for a hefty cash bribe for a flat, he probably enjoys controlling and bullying you.

Any attempts to have him removed based on your MH will be protracted and distressing.

You can't use your children's MH as it would be awful to bring them into the middle.

As far as I can see your only choice is to sell up and divide assets.

I appreciate that financially it's the wrong time to do so but you need to decide your priorities.

Mumsnet will be right behind you. It's not easy

Obviously I know nothing about your DC's health problems, but do consider whether getting H out of their lives could release tension for them and cause improvement so that a move of home might not be out of the question for them.
Discussing the whole situation with Women's Aid should be very helpful for you.

When I separated from dh I bought a flat in joint names, me paying the deposit. Us to be jointly responsible for the mortgage. We paid half each. Him to pay bills and council tax. It worked, although I suppose your problem would be getting him to leave in the first place.

I think stayathome is right.

I had my decree nisi a few months ago without any mediation.

You need to see a solicitor who can look at all your information and advise what avenues are open to you before making any decisions. You may be able to argue to stay in the property until both dcs are 18yrs before selling and splitting the proceeds but that just protracts everything and leaves him in a position of power to abuse further and you would still need to get him to leave.

I'm in a similar position, with controlling, entitled H and dc with MH issues (although H is now out) and I just need a clean break how ever that happens

Thank you Daft - how did you get your H out? Are you having to sell up too?

His personality sounds disordered. It may help to have a look on some websites such as 'out of the fog' and look at how other people are coping with similar situations.
I really wish you good luck. It sound as if you deserve some happiness in life now

@Elephant14 thankfully he moved out on his own (after a drunken rant at me one night) and I told him I would not have him back in the house. He stayed away until he himself got legal advice where he was told he every right to move back in as it was the family home. He chose to try to do so, I believe, so he could monitor my movements rather than for any other reason. Hence I then went to court to keep him out as the children were very distressed any time that he let himself into the house unannounced.

I had a 40 page document of evidence of his awful behaviour that I had collated over the three weeks or so that he had been out including events that had happened in the past. Lawyer told me that I had to get him into a flat as there are certain circumstances that meant he might be likely to win an occupation order. So I basically found him a suitable flat within a few days and moved him in! I also changed the locks which I shouldn't have done but all the lawyers said I should and that a judge rarely orders them to be changed back!

Thank you Pink.

All day I've been thinking do I dare to have a new life without him and it sounds and looks great in my imagination, and then I think I will always be looking over my shoulder and always scared of him trying to be alone with the DCs ... that was one of the main reasons why I never left him when they were younger but seems they have paid the price for my inaction, now.

They will get to the point where they will choose not too spend much time with him. My two have done just that, aided by his disinterest really.

So sorry you're going through this OP. Yes you can do this. You can have a new life without him in it. He sounds so exhausting. What a shit he is. Sorry I just feel so angry on your behalf OP.
Everyone has given you good advice. Start with legal advice and Women's aid. Good luck. Xx

always scared of him trying to be alone with the DCs

That is not someone you should keep in your life, any of you.
I hope you get good advice this week.

How are things OP?

how entirely pathetic of him. turn the tables and remind him of that a lot