My grandson telling me about my son and his shouting...

[CarpeVitam]

I've phrased it this way because those are the words my grandson used

We are staying with my son for a few weeks and in a 10 day time frame my 4 year old grandson has said a few times (whilst in our care) that daddy "shouts at mummy a lot and makes her cry and mummy hasn't done anything"

I'm so conflicted as to how to deal with this. Do/say nothing to my son?

Tell him what his son has said and express my concerns? I just feel that for my grandson to be talking about this (obviously unprompted) it is something that is troubling him?

I'm so struggling with how to approach this with my son, if at all! He has a temper and may well tell me to not interfere but my instincts tell me I need to talk to him about this.

Any advise Mumsnetters?

Apologies ignorance don't reply immediately, it's late...

Good for you Op

What did she say?

As an xdil, and xw of an abusive man, stand up to your son.

Mothers always side with their sons. Blood is thicker etc.

My xmil did it and so obviously it felt like more abuse and I had to cut her off.

A smarter mil, coming from a place of what is RIGHT as well as a place of thinking how things pan out in the future would know that because blood is thicker than water they can afford to stand up for what's right because their son is their son and will always be their son and that can be fixed in time. If you let your daughter in law down now she will obviously regard you as one more abusive controlling person lining up to bully her.

So I would tell your DIL that you heard what your GS said, let her know that you believe what's going on, no delusions that your son would never do that etc...

Then tell your son that you know and let him know that don't buy any of the excuses he will give you. ''she doesn't listen'', ''she makes me lose my temper''. Tell him keeping his temper is his responsibility.

I decided to speak to my son first. He, perhaps unsurprisingly, tried to minimise it, as in its all about context and just because his wife is the one crying doesn't mean he isn't also upset.

He was calmer than I expected though and seemed embarrassed and was concerned. He went to both the children individually and cuddled and reassured them. I didn't expect him to take it so well, given that he'd just 'kicked off' at me at lunchtime because I didn't do something he expected me to do! He raised his voice to me which again elicited a response from his son that daddy is always shouting!

He asked me not to speak to his wife, saying he would talk to her himself. He wasn't happy that I wouldn't agree not to talk to her and asked me why. My response was that I was concerned about her and the children's welfare and that his child is obviously traumatised at some level to have talked about it on 3 separate occasions .

He did speak to her but I found out later, when I spoke to his wife myself, that he hadn't relayed it properly and, as far as I'm concerned tried to minimise it.

Op what a breath of fresh air you are, well done for standing up for what is right here, and not assuming because he is your son he can do no wrong.

I am sure you are upset by what you were told by your GS but it was totally necessary to address it, and not let it be brushed under the carpet, your DIL is very lucky and your GS has been listened to......

Hopefully your DS is now embarrassed enough to look at his behavior.

I've let my DIL know that I am here for her and the children if she should ever need emotional support. To answer a pp, we live on different continents so seeing more of them/they living with us is not an option.

I was surprised at her response, or lack of, tbh. She said they have a big blow up when she can't tolerate it any longer, he makes a big effort to control his anger/shouting but then reverts back to his usual behaviour eventually. I suspect she's become to used to it which isn't good either.

I've told her that as lovely as he can be, this kind of behaviour is unacceptable and is bullying and intimidatory

Thank you Dragon x And to everyone who has responded

Well done op. It’s a difficult situation, my dh bottles stuff up and blows, goes from 0 to 90 over trivial things sometimes. He is a good man mostly but it has taken years to change his behaviour. Someone backing me up wouldn’t have changed anything I don’t think, he did try to change but it was baby steps. It would have been nice to vent to someone.

Is this abuse? Does he shout at or hit children, he needs to address this, probably won't. counselling, anger management. Meditation might help. She will eventually get fed up and leave. Poor kids.

I deffo think your dil is probably trying to minimise it.
Another chat with your son? He blew up at you and your his mum and a guest, so theoretically should be on goodish behaviour.
It’s all quite worrying and well done for being proactive. No one wants this to happen in their lives

He’s an abuser

He needs to leave.

Apologies, I know I haven't answered everyone's questions

I am bitterly disappointed in my son and I know he has issues. He has a tendency to arrogance (like his father), is without a doubt an angry individual who, whilst highly intelligent, does not have sufficient personal insight to appreciate the negative impact his actions/words have on his wife, children and on the rest of his family

I agree with other a pp that he may one day lose his wife if he doesn't address his issues. I am so tempted to point this out to him but will hide my time

He might lose his wife in the future, but in the meantime he's frightening his children. My father shouted and was angry and it has had a very negative impact on us. Poor mental health, abusive relationships, lack of confidence, not achieving to the best of ability etc. Please keep reaching out to your DIL. She'll probably minimise because she feels ashamed and embarrassed. She's very lucky to have you.

*meant to say I will bide my time...

Apple, he oftentimes reminds me of my own father who was definitely emotionally abusive and it has had a huge impact on me and my siblings...Depression issues, dysfunctional and fractured relationships.

That was to Apile.... bloody autocorrect!

OP, you are now equipped with information that you need to act on, your grandson is trying to communicate his fear and your DIL has confirmed the abuse,

Carpe I would encourage your son to seek therapy inorder to take steps to control his anger. Tell him if he doesn’t make a concerted effort to seek help, he may well lose his family.

for you, Carpe.

I think my DF might have learned to behave better if my DM had stood up to him - she did in her 50s, but we were all grown up by then. I wonder if you spoke to your DS about the effect your DF had on you would it make a difference?

If he's losing his temper at you, that's the perfect time to intervene and make it about him and his temper (rather than about his wife/child).

Stand up to him (unless you feel in danger?), calmly point out why that behaviour isn't acceptable, and help him find a better way. Perhaps suggest anger management?

He needs to know that the way he's behaving isn't normal. If his father and grandfather were like it, he probably doesn't realise there's a problem.

Also, is there any connection between his father's behaviour and the fact that he now has a step-Dad?

The two may be completely unrelated of course, but if you left his Dad because of his temper, perhaps it's time to give your son the unvarnished truth?

I’m glad you’re taking it seriously. You’re being a good grandma.

Your dil’s first instinct may have been to protect by denying and explaining away. Doesn’t mean to say you’re comments won’t have had a positive effect. Don’t assume her position is fixed and won’t change over time.