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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

My partner lacks empathy

17 replies

NewlyWed2018 · 02/08/2018 11:47

I got married very recently, and it was easily one of the best days of my life. The following day was definitely one of the worst....

A relative of mine got very sick at the wedding. We didn't know anything about this until the next morning when most people had left. Things were looking very grim and the prognosis was very poor, was touch and go. Thankful all good now. However, when I found out about this I managed to keep it together until most people were gone and then when I was alone with my new husband I got upset and started to cry, I told him we needed to go to the hospital now, and he told me he'd drop me but he had things to do as he'd arranged to go for drinks with the lads. I couldn't believe it so I got more upset and he started to shout at me - 'what is wrong with you'?

We were in the car and so I got out, I couldn't breathe, I started having a panic attack, I'd never had one before but I felt like I didn't know this person at all, I felt like I'd married a monster. So I got out the car and tried to breathe while he stayed in the car shouting at me alternative between instructions to 'just breathe' and asking me 'what is wrong with me'. Obviously none of this was helping. When I could talk I snapped back at him and asked what's wrong with him, how could he be so cold so he agreed to come in with me to the hospital.

The following day his mum was really upset about something and she was crying and again he started to shout at her 'what is wrong with you'... And so I got upset with him again and told him he doesn't have a monopoly on emotion and that people are entitled to their feelings. He didn't seem to get it, he felt his mother had no need to get upset but he didn't seem to understand that it didn't matter if he felt it was reasonable she was still upset... Sorry for the rant, I just don't know who to talk to, I don't want to turn my family and friends against him, he's not really a bad person. I think it's his upbringing maybe. But it's been eating me up and it really bugs me that he's never even apologised and doesn't feel that he should.

I feel so alone and very lonely. I can't bring it up without him getting cross. Is empathy something that can be taught? Or do I just have to live with it? The idea now of starting a family with him terrifies me? How will he treat our kids if they are upset? He's always been very indifferent to kids but I thought it would be different when we had our own. He says he wants kids but sometimes I feel like he does and says things because he feels that's what people do....

I'm worried he has a lot of narcasstic traits, can you have a successful relationship with a narcissist? He's never been an affectionate person and that has bothered me in the past, but I always felt the rest out weighed that. But now I'm worried that he just can't show or empathise emotion.

Would love some advice or any feedback from anyone in a relationship with someone similar who has made it work? I feel like I can't talk to him about it he gets very defensive. I told him I felt he should apologise and he just said fine, sorry. But I didn't get any satisfaction out of it as it didn't feel genuine but now he feels he's already apologised and shouldn't need to do so again...

We're barely a month married and I feel miserable the whole time!!

OP posts:

WeakArguments · 02/08/2018 11:55

Is empathy something that can be taught? Or do I just have to live with it?

It can't be taught.

I understand brain scans were carried out on people with anti social personality disorder and in many cases the brain structure is limited in areas where empathy is thought to originate. Therapy simply makes certain people better at hurting people.

I think of it as safeguarding and keeping away from the symptom and not hating the individual. He can not help his type of brain structure any more than someone born with a missing limb can.

Original poster

NewlyWed2018 · 02/08/2018 12:17

I don't hate him, but I feel very alone. He is a good person mostly, he's not evil. I just never noticed it before but hindsight makes me realise I should have seen this long ago. His parents brought him to a child therapist as a child, but I guess I never wondered why, I just thought they couldn't handle him. He sounds like a bit of a mare as a child!! You sound like you know a bit about it, do you have first hand experience? Is its hereditary or just they way things are? Is it likely our kids could have the same brain structure? Thanks for coming back to me new to all this so a bit overwhelmed and confused and I can't talk to him about it.

OP posts:

violetfeather · 02/08/2018 12:23

Also might be worth you reading the Asperger's thread on relationships.
Do you have issues with his lack of reciprocal communication. Does he lack interest in communication or does he like to chat.

WeakArguments · 02/08/2018 12:30

Yes brain structure can be inherited. It can also be acquired as is thought to be the case of Jihadi John.

hellsbellsmelons · 02/08/2018 12:31

can you have a successful relationship with a narcissist?
The simple answer to this is a big fat NO!!!

Original poster

NewlyWed2018 · 02/08/2018 12:41

@Violetfeather - He's a chatter that's for sure! But only on his terms, conversations are very one sided in that regard. He doesn't have any interest in my life, job or family or day etc. But he'll chat for hours about his job or tractors/farming, he's a big interest in that area! But he loves to talk!!

OP posts:

Original poster

NewlyWed2018 · 02/08/2018 12:42

@violetfeather - thanks, will check out that thread and look up Aspergers, thanks

OP posts:

Original poster

NewlyWed2018 · 02/08/2018 12:43

Thanks @WeakArguments

OP posts:

Original poster

NewlyWed2018 · 02/08/2018 12:50

Thanks for your honesty - @hellsbellsmelons

I do love him and I love his family, it's not a deal breaker for me at the moment but I can see it will present problems!!

If we have trouble TTC, a miscarriage, a sick child, when we face the real problems in life I can see this could cause issues. I wonder if I'm prepared can I work with it?

I feel that it would be awful lonely, and life is not plain sailing so imagine we'll face real problems at some stage.

Is it naive to think if I'm prepared, we can make it work? I don't see that he'll ever understand where I'm coming from or be open to seeing that he's not as understanding as I need, he's very defensive, all his life he's been told by his parents and extended family that he is perfect. His siblings call him the golden boy!! He's really been put on a pedestal which reinforces his belief that he is right in everything he does.

OP posts:

PumpingIron · 02/08/2018 13:11

I am so sorry to be so negative :( but your posts here ring so many alarm bells. Perhaps try reading "Zero Degrees of Empathy: A New Theory of Human Cruelty" by Simon Baron-Cohen.

OP, my best friend has spent the past 3 years extricating herself from her marriage to a man just as you describe here. His charm had blinded her (although all her friends and family and even HIS family knew exactly what he was like) and the truth slowly dawned on her. She tried everything she could on her side to make it work, she lived on eggshells around his temper and insults, and eventually realised the best thing for her and her child was to start again. She was wreck of a human by that point and has worked very very very hard to put her life together.

A successful relationship requires compromise and growth on BOTH sides. You post here about what you can do to effectively change yourself to cope better with his behaviour. There will come a time when you have to accept he will never change (either unwilling or incapable or both), and you may end up becoming a shadow of your former self desperately trying to accommodate him and prevent him from blowing up. So yes, you are being naive to think by adapting yourself you can resolve this. And you are quite right, you have lots of trials and tribulations of life ahead of you, which in a healthy relationship you would face together, no just by yourself while insulating him from the worst effects of the problem.

Good luck.

violetfeather · 02/08/2018 13:33

Is he prone to having rages when you have your own point of view that is different to his.
You've said he doesn't seem to have empathy but does that mean he never responds to issues you have with sensitivity, kindness and sympathy.
I think if he doesn't than a lifetime stuck with someone like this would be bleak and unfulfilling.
Does he have a good sense of humour. Do you laugh together in exchanges of conversation. Does he appreciate your sense of humour. Do you feel he appreciates your personality.

Cawfee · 02/08/2018 14:53

Wow! Is this really how you want to spend the rest of your life? You made a huge mistake. This person can never give you the emotion/caring that you need. His parents must have been jumping with joy when you came along! You sound like a normal person who has feelings. He doesn’t. Get out now. What happens later in life when you hit menopause or if you or someone you care about gets sick? You cannot rely on this man!

lifebegins50 · 02/08/2018 15:39

How long were you together before the wedding?

Empathy/Compassion is vital in relationships, plus the ability to apologise.These are the building blocks for relationships.

If he is narcisstic then the ability to change isn't there as you need to be motivated to change and without empathy he has no motivation.He is not bothered if you sre hurting, unless it could reflect on him.

Also if he has NPD, then he will look to benefit from the relationship however if you lose status, money or generally become an ordinary person with needs he will show his contempt for you and the relationship is likely to become abusive.
A person with npd will exploit anyone they are in a relationship with, so financially you will suffer in the longterm.

If he has ASD (and both NPD & ASD can coexist) then it seems there are genetics at play.

From the golden child description, NPD appears more likely. You cannot have a successful marriage with an NPD partner as it will never be about genuine love. You are an object, much like a table or lamp. You have a "use" most likely status but should you try to get your needs met, such a being comforted he will tire of you.

Ex H changed the day after we married, he realised I would not easily walk from a marriage and due to my finances he was now in a good position. Indeed when we divorced he succeeded in getting half of my assets, despite having a deed of trust in place, such is the nature of marriage.

I remember my brother had a fall out with his partner and he was discussing it with me, the difference in how a "normal" person handles conflict was so dramatic than it stuck with me. I had been conditioned to Ex's anger when he upset me, he blamed me, he gave insincere apologies and it was evident my feelings never mattered.

I think you are very fortunate to have seen his true colours quickly, many of us don't until children have arrived or by the time our self esteem is on the floor and we can no longer judge what is "normal".

violetfeather · 02/08/2018 21:15

Op, it's easy to make allowances for the behaviour of a narcissist in normal circumstances, as you are looking at them through rose tinted glasses and seeing all their positive traits. Unfortunately, once a specific incident has happened everything falls into place: all the red flags you ignored etc, as their behaviour seems very far from desirable coming from your nearest and dearest. As a previous poster stated, when you turn to them for support and they seem unable to give it as an example.
I think women are naturally more accommodating and make more allowances.

SpringLake · 02/08/2018 21:21

Have you tried talking to him mum about it? does she see it too? she might have coping strategies she can share with you or ways to help him realise?

Oakleygirl · 02/08/2018 21:45

My first thought when reading your post was Aspergers OP. He sounds very like my current dp, who Ive been seeing for nearly a year. My dp is chatty, but rarely two way, unless I need info about something, then he can give me reams of advice. Otherwise, nothing, no asking how I am, can't seem to read my emotions, he's hard work. I adore him but he hurts me and has no idea. I don't know if my dp has ever been diagnosed, but he has never admitted that he has it, but it's the only explanation for the way he is that I can come up with. Have you had time to read up on Aspergers yet OP. It might help you to understand what you're going to have to deal with if your marriage is to succeed.

AgentJohnson · 03/08/2018 15:54

This is who he is and there isn't a different him waiting to show up. He will be like this with your children to and that's when the anger and resentment will truly kick in because the same behaviour that you've been willing to accept will become unacceptable for your children.

Ideally you would have come to this realisation before your wedding but better late than never. You could try counselling to see if there is progress to be made but this is really who is.

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