Long and rather dull thread about dh saying I'm selfish and he doesn't understand me re having another child

[bran]

I may just type all this out to clarify my own thoughts, and not post it at all.

The short version is that dh wants to adopt a second child and I'm unsure. He wanted to go ahead with the initial assessment for a second child and see whether my doubts resolve themselves in the process. So I said that since he's the keener one he could phone and make the appointment. He was going to do it at the beginning of the year but kept putting it off. This morning as he was walking out the door he was firing off a list of things he wanted me to do and added phoning Social Services on to the end of the list. I said that he had agreed to do it whereupon he said "You know I'm much too busy at work to do it. You're so selfish, I just don't understand you sometimes" and slammed his door on the way out.

Long version below.

There are lots of reasons why I'm unsure about a second child, on the positive side I did always plan to have two children when we started trying for a family. I know that ds would love a sibling, not just now but it's great to not be an only child when you're grown up and your parents are getting older. Also, DS has brought unbelieveable joy into our lives and I love him more than I thought it possible to love and another child would be loved just the same and no doubt bring as much joy.

On the negatative side I'm not a natural baby person and, although I enjoyed it very much, I found the first year with ds very hard work, even though he was a fairly 'easy' child. I'm not at all sure how well I will cope with two children, especially if the second child isn't easy. Now that I have experience of one child, I worry that I couldn't cope with a challenging child. I know that no child comes with any guarantee of health/good personality, but an adopted child can come with with ante-natal drug/alcohol usage, an unknown genetic history or a genetic history of mental illness/medical problems, lack of care/disruption in the early months/years leading to attachment disorder. I worry that the stress of dealing with any of these things will put a strain on my relationships with dh and ds and that ds won't get the attention that he deserves.

A further complication is that dh is a workaholic. He loves taking on challenging and difficult contracts and works very long hours. When we were meeting with social workers being assessed to adopt and after we got ds he would always promise to be home in plenty of time, but I would usually end up apologising to social workers and starting without him and he would roll in 30 mins late. When he's here he's great with ds and does lots with him, but the job he's in at the moment he usually only gets home before ds' bedtime once or twice a week. He also occasionally works at weekends, and when he is at home he spends most of the time that he's not with ds working on his computer.

I work part-time so naturally most of the household and admin stuff is down to me, but I resist being his unpaid PA and skivvy as I feel it's his choice to work all hours not mine, also he has a tendency to be vague on details so when I do do stuff for him it always takes longer and is more of a pain than he lets on. This causes a certain amount of tension when he wants something to be done but can't do it himself and I don't want to do it. Also I think he is jealous of my free time and laziness, or annoyed that I have free time and 'waste' it and feels that I am a resource for him to harness, he sometimes tries to 'manage' me like one of his work team. Generally if I want something to happen I organise it myself, if I don't want something I don't argue I just let him organise it and it often doesn't happen. Which is why I suggested he organise the appointment with Social Services last November (it's nearly June now!) as I knew the delay would give me a bit of thinking time.

I really feel that if dh can't find the time to phone up and make the initial appointment how is he going to find time to meet with the social workers and do a handover with the new child. The handover for ds took a week and dh was supposed to take a fortnight off when ds moved in with us, but didn't.

There is a bit of a time pressure on this decision as we are planning to move back to Ireland in a couple of years and ds will start primary school there. So any adoption would have to be done and dusted before then otherwise our move will need to be delayed. As an indication of how tight that is, it was 3 years from starting assesment until ds was placed with us, and almost another 9 months until the adoption was finalised in court.

I don't know where I'm going with this rant really, but I do feel better that I've written it down and clearer in my mind what the issues are, so I think I'll post it and I can look back at it in a few days. I can't decide though whether I am indeed being selfish, I'm certainly being fairly passive-agressive. But on the other hand dh genuinely feels that he is doing what's best for his family and gets frustrated that I'm not being a team player when I put my point of view forward, so the choice seems to be to go along with what he wants or be passive-aggressive.

Having a baby by any method isn't something to go along with if only one of you wants it anyway - particularly when the more reluctant partner is the one left doing all of the child care. I'm inclined to agree with you. If he's too busy at work to make the phone call, where does he think he's going to find the time to deal with the adoption process ... let alone spend time being a dad?

I have no advice really but just didn't want to read and ignore. Hope someone comes along soon with some wiser words than I have!

Thanks WWB. How long did it take you to read that post?

Oh, a minute or two.

But it has paragraphs and punctuation and everything, so it was lovely and easy to read

Sorry it's all going on for you, though. Can't be an easy situation to be dealing with.

Well done for getting that all out, I hope that was cathartic in itself.

Have you told your DH all this as clearly and succinctly as you've written here? If not it could be a starting point - even give it to him written down like that, nice and calmly stating your points.

I can completely see where your apprehension is coming from, but can your DH see your point of view - have you given him the opportunity to?

I hope you can sort it out

It seems like you're thinking about things very clearly. I think you need to say something as simple as what my husband said to me, when I discussed having a third child: "I love you, and I will support you whatever you decide, and I will adore any child of ours, but, personally, I know I don't have any more time or energy that I could devote to the family. This will have to be YOUR decision about YOUR time and priorities, not mine." Then we had a great shag.

I mean, he does sound a bit Edina Monsoon: "I'm just off to have lunch - can you pick up my dry cleaning, and then adopt me a child? I quite fancy one with curly hair. And get some stamps, as well."

As the others have said, I can see where you are coming from and sympathise. But I think you need to speek to your dh about it rather than letting it drift like this. He clearly still wants to get in touch with SS and, in discussions with him, you may decide that you are more keen than you realise. It would be a shame to let it go so long that the time constraints mean you can't adopt before you want to move. OTOH if you decide that you really don't think having another child is something you want now, you should tell him. You can work it out together.

Hope you are able to come to a happy conclusion one way or another

agree wholeheartedly with the others re; speaking to him about this as clearly as you have here.

just wanted to add too, will it take as long second time round?
a) they'll habe a lot of your details on file already
b) you're already parents this time so they won't have to try and evaluate whether your up to the job, just do a general welfare check on ds... i would imagine anyway

LordVenger, at the comparison with AbFab.

We have been through all of this several times, most helpfully whilst having dinner with a friend that we made when being assessed for ds. She and her dh adopted a little girl and then adopted her half-brother. Our friend admitted that she and her dh found it much harder with two. She had a very demanding job with long hours and a long commute to London, and her dh was in much the same position that I would be in if we had another, although they did have help and support from his family who lived nearby. She has recently given up her London job and got another job closer to home with more reasonable hours to have more of a family life.

I think part of the problem is that I am genuinely unsure what is the best thing to do, which is why I think it would be worthwhile going through the assessment. DH and I both want what's best for ds, but he is completely sure that the best thing for ds is to have a sibling, whereas I worry that if it all goes wrong that the stresses involved for ds could be worse than not having a sibling. DH recognises that it will be tough for a few years, but if we (meaning me) buckle down and get through it then it will be worth the effort.

DH has said that he will find the time necessary, but then he is an eternal optomist when it comes to time management. In fact he's a bit of an optomist generally, his usual refrain is "It'll be fine, I don't know what you're making a fuss about" before it goes wrong, "Look it would be ok if you would just do x,y,z and stop putting yourself first" when it's going wrong, and "It wasn't that difficult in the end was it" after I've proof read his over-due essay in the early hours or taken a day's holiday to buy office furniture or skipped some lovely sight-seeing on holiday so he can meet up with a business contact.

When we first discussed a second child I made it clear that I would need a clear sign from him that he would put family before work, part of which was that he would organise talking to social services. He agreed that he needed to make more time and that I couldn't be expected to do it all myself and he would show willing by dealing with all the assessment stuff. I really should have gotten him to sign something to that effect as he has a very selective memory.

He has no slack in his life to allow for flexibility, he is always rushing to get things done. He said that he would drastically cut back his hours when ds came, and he did try, but before long it crept back up again. He said he would learn to drive if we had children, but hasn't had time. Last Friday he had a day off, he was full of plans to take ds to the acquarium. In the end he took ds into the office of his own company for the morning, then dropped him off at nursery at lunch time and went into his contract job in the afternoon. That's not a one off, that is actually what he thinks a day off is, don't even get me started on the hours that we spend in internet cafes when on holiday. When I had flu he sent one of his employees to look after ds rather than take a day off, he said he couldn't afford to take time off because he had missed several days work when he had the flu.

If I were completely clear that the right thing for the family is to stop at one child, then I would say so and stand firm as I did when I decided to stop IVF (it took him 18 months to accept that I really meant "no"). It's just that I think a second child might be the right thing for ds (and for the second child) but only under different circumstances. I think dh will do his usual of agreeing with me that things must change, but then not changing much when the crunch comes. At which stage I can hardly hand the second child back.

I accept the way he is, and I think that he is my 'type' as I've never, ever fancied the type of man who was a bit laid-back. I just feel that as a family we have to work both within my limitations and his limitations, and I want to be sure that he can really can give me more time and support and not just promise to do it.

"I really feel that if dh can't find the time to phone up and make the initial appointment how is he going to find time to meet with the social workers and do a handover with the new child. The handover for ds took a week and dh was supposed to take a fortnight off when ds moved in with us, but didn't."

I think that would scare me to be honest. I think if you aren't sure you want another child then you probably shouldn't put yourselves through it.

I think you need to talk to him. A lot. And to try to get behind his 'a family is 2 children no less' attitude because that, quite frankly, if he can't even be arsed phoning SS is bizarre

Sorry, just to synopsise that rambling message. We have discussed this at length. He thinks it would be damaging to ds not to have a sibling. He has heard what I have to say and promised that he will be more available. He has promised time-related things before and not followed through, or followed through in limited ways. As part of showing that he would be more available and supportive he would organise meeting the social workers (agreed about 6 months ago). He thinks I'm selfish not to organise meeting the social workers (this morning).

Pink Tulips, the assessment will be pretty quick this time, in fact it wasn't too bad the first time. It was matching us with a child that took ages last time as dh is Asian and I'm white, but dh is Christian and we are therefore usually ruled out for children who have a Muslim or Hindu parent, that will be much the same situation this time.

its just talk till he does something about it Bran

I wouldn't be pushed into being the mother to any child if I didn't want to be, not even by DH. But particularly if he is unwilling to change to be a father of 2 which it sounds like he is.

Although no doubt this morning was a flash in the pan and you're taking umbrage about something he's already forgotten

quite simply if he wants to do this then he proves he will change .. this is proving he won't (isn't it?)

From your posts I get the feeling that neither of you are saying "I would like another child because I would like a daughter/a 2nd son" but rather "We should have another child for ds' sake."

I agree with you that if dh can't make the time to make a phone call then how on earth is he going to make time for another child? I think you're being practical rather than selfish.

Sounds like he's viewing a new baby as a new project rather than a child.

Message withdrawn

If he wants another child, he ought to prove he can change before you start down the road to adopt.

Not just promise he will, then not, as he has before.

Otherwise it will all be down to you. And that's not fair.

He seems quite work-focused so perhaps approach him like he is at work about it.

Set him deadlines to do things by.

wow.

i agree that he needs to prove to you that he's committed to spending more time with you and your dc / dc's.

i'd sit down and have a very serious talk. write down what he's committing to and make him sign it. stick it on the fridge.

he's fobbing you off with false promises trying to get you to commit and do the work, at which point nothings changes.

Would therapy for workaholicism (not a word) be an option?

Seriously, he makes my DH look perfectly reasonable on the work front! (Did he pay you to make all this up?)

I would really be putting my foot down about this. Spending time in internet cafes while on holiday!

It doesn't really sound like he wants to change his work hours enough, even though he knows he should. As you have rightly said if he's too busy to make 1 phone call - how long does that take?.
Do you think some of this need to have a second child is more cultural and common to have a larger family?

You go back to full time work, pass to him all issues about managing the existing child and say - rigth you want the next one you arrange it and manage and pay for the child care and I will not stand in your way.

I just knew that if you came on this thread Xenia that the solution would somehow involve me working fulltime. I was even going to make a bet in my op, but thought it seemed a bit flippant.

Sorry to be frivolous. He wants a child so he fixes that up and arranges the child care. Just because he has a p enis doesn't mean he can't do those things.

And I think men can take the adoption leave now.

I don't want to work full time though Xenia, that would be cutting my nose off to spite my face. I used to work quite long hours, 60-70 a week, and I was always getting sick. Actually I'm often ill now, but just with colds and hay fever and stuff, when I was working long hours it was serious, getting admitted to hospital with pleurisy-type illness. And I like having a bit of leisure time.

DH could probably work much less if he wanted to, it's not as though we need the money really, he just doesn't want to. And he can take any amount of adoption leave he wants to, he is a partner in a consultancy firm so he decides for himself what he wants to do. He just really, really likes working hard.

NQC, yes our dh's have set up a system to make themselves look good. DH works all hours you make you dh's look reasonable, and you dh does lots of foreign trips so that mine can pride himself on having cut down his foreign trips. DH doesn't think of himself as a workaholic, he thinks he is an entrepreneur who is putting in lots of effort now and who will be able to retire and enjoy the good life by 50 or 55. And anyway in the environment he works in he probably only does average hours, merchant banks hate slackers (defined as anyone who does less than 50 hours a week).

As though to prove a point he phoned while ds and I were having dinner to say he would be home late tonight.

To be (sort of) fair to dh he does have a 5 year plan which features a drastic reduction in his workload in a few years time. He is hoping to grow his company and then sell it around the time we move to Ireland (in early 2009) or within a couple of years of moving to Ireland. But that was the 5 year plan 3 years ago, the more recent version of the plan seems to focus on opening a Dublin office of the company which I expect will need most of his attention and long hours getting him and his company known in a new market.