What's the reality?

[Phatgirlslym]

8 years ago I had CBT to deal with mild anxiety and depression. One of the things I was told by the counsellor, alongside the fact that my childhood had been abusive, was that I am a perfectionist, and have unrealistic expectations of others. Armed with this knowledge, I began to feel happier in all my relationships apart from my marriage.
4 years ago I booked an appointment to see a worker from IDAS because I was so upset by my husband's behaviour towards me; she informed me that he is emotionally abusive and I should make plans to leave him, she also added that the CBT had been very damaging because it led me to believe the problem lay with me. In fairness to the CBT lady, I didn't mention a great deal about my husband as I was focusing on the things that happened in my childhood.I feel so confused now, as I don't know what is a 'normal' level of bad behaviour; I suspect that I have very blurred boundaries due to the abuse in my childhood. When I have mentioned to my husband that he is abusive/a bully he roars with laughter and says it's an insult to abused women everywhere.

I forgot to say that I have been married for 20 years, and there can be long gaps between each episode of his nastiness. He suggests that I am mentally ill because I cannot forget, which kind of tallies with what the therapist told me.

You seem to be basing a lot on what the CBT therapist thinks, or what the IDAS worker thinks - but what do you think? And in this context it doesn't matter if you're a perfectionist or have blurred boundaries or anything else - what matters here is whether or not you are happy in your marriage, and it doesn't sound like you are. There doesn't have to be a reason why you're unhappy. Try and have faith in your own judgement - not that of your husband or counsellor.

Thanks Hassled.
I think you've hit the nail on the head there - I'm not sure what I think! I feel that I have no blue print for what a good relationship consists of. I have a large circle of friends, but I'm not very close with anyone. My parents relationship was dysfunctional and so is that of my in-laws. I have a sister who is married to a wonderful man and they just adore each other, however they don't have children, so maybe that has changed the dynamics with them?

I think I'm also scared: I'm not happy now, but imagine how gutted I'd feel if I left and still felt unhappy or even downright miserable

How would you react if someone told you they felt you were abusive to them? Would you laugh in their face? There's your answer.

When your husband's behaviour upsets you, what sort of things does he do?

Thanks guinessguzzler. You're right, I would be mortified if someone said that about me; but I've put that down to me being a timid and over sensitive people-pleaser. He, on the other hand, never questions himself - he just always believes he's right.

ThinkingCat - Here's an example....
We were sitting at the table with our children having lunch and chatting - everyone was fine. He likes to steer the conversation towards politics, as it's a subject he likes to think he knows a lot about. I can't remember the exact details, but the discussion got onto the topic of Putin and his recent invasion of another country; my husband said that the countries in the West should basically butt out and leave him to it, as it's none of their business. I remarked that, just as in a school playground, no one would stand back and allow a big bully intimidate a smaller child. Ironically, he just exploded with anger and said "it was the most immature, stupid and utterly ridiculous comment he had ever heard and I should be embarrassed'! He did later apologise, but the look of utter contempt on his face was quite frightening. There have been quite a few incidents like this over the years.

Each time there is an episode like this, I think to myself that I need to make plans to leave, but it never happens as I convince myself it's the wrong time in terms of the children. We have three children and there has always been one of them studying for grammar school entrance, or GCSE's or A Levels etc.

How often are the incidents? Does he make you happy and feel loved otherwise? What he said was totally out of order but if you said to him something like "I felt belittled and you upset me" would he apologise and genuinely seem remorseful? or try and brush it under the carpet? Or tell you were stupid and hurl more abuse? Him laughing in your face is worrying but not necessarily abuse imo. But ultimately it doesn't matter whether I think it's abuse or not, what matters is what you think. Do you think he generally a nice caring husband who is a dickhead occasionally or do you think he is emotionally abusive? Abuse is what you think it is not what someone else defines it to be imo.

Thanks Pickleypickles. There have been times in the past when there has fallen out with people where he works and I have had to bear the brunt of his outbursts and moodiness. I'm ashamed to say there have been occasions in the past where the children have felt scared of him and his anger, but that's quite a long time ago now. As a general rule, if he perceives that everything is going ok in his life he can be fairly pleasant. He has a very strange relationship with his mother, she speaks to him on the phone several times a week and rants and rages about issues e.g. the state of the NHS, immigration etc. and I've noticed that he seems to adopt all her views and gets angry about the same things, even though it doesn't affect him. For at least an hour after the phone call he seems cross and irritated with everyone - it's very strange

I don't feel loved by him. However, my earliest memories as a child were of not being loved and of being rejected by my family, so again I'm left wondering if it's my mental health issues and that even if I was married to the most lovely man in the world, I perhaps would still feel insecure and unloved

So it sounds like 1) he seems to have anger management issues and expresses for example his political opinions aggressively but later realises and apologises 2) he is a strong opinionated bluff personality 3) he thinks it's OK to belittle your opinions and feelings 4) his mother triggers some of his political anger and 5) sometimes he upsets you and you feel unhappy. It's really for you to decide if this is acceptable to you, or whether his belittling of your opinions and feelings is unacceptable. You could try to be more assertive. You could tell him it isn't acceptable for him to belittle you. You could ask him not to discuss politics with you, as it seems to make him feel angry. You do sound a bit 'down-trodden' to use an old-fashioned term. Perhaps you need to do some activities / work that will give you more confidence.

He doesn't sound like a nice person.

And I think your observation about Putin is spot on. Your opinions are worth listening to.

I'm left wondering if it's my mental health issues and that even if I was married to the most lovely man in the world, I perhaps would still feel insecure and unloved

We seem destined to keep living out the same relationships with different people throughout our lives to try and somehow get it right, in some weird Groundhog Day situation.

You wouldn’t be married to the most lovely guy in the world because your ‘story’ is that you will end up with someone like your parents. He sounds like a chip off his mother’s block.

Once you recognise your patterns and make a conscious decision to break the cycle, you can start to change things.

You need to start valuing yourself and your DCs enough that you don’t accept his awful behaviour as part of your life. Imagine a life where his opinions mean nothing to you, where you’re free to have a conversation without being made to feel stupid.

He sounds very domineering and superior and it’s not surprising that you end up ground down by it.

I hope you can find a way to extricate yourself from him for your own and your DCs’ sakes. Whatever they have going on in their lives, the short term upheaval of you splitting from their dad will be nothing compared to the long term effects of his influence on them. Showing them that his behaviour is not something you have to accept will teach them a good lesson in what to expect from people in their lives as they grow up.

I agree with pps, it’s what you feel about the relationship that counts not your therapist or your husband. I suffered from depression and was seeing a psychotherapist on an off for a couple of years, she kept telling me that it was the way I communicated with my husband that was causing the problems at home, he wasn’t violent, but I was terrified of him, like yours he had major anger problems and was always right ( even when proved wrong 🙄).

A friend told me to read this board and it was a real eye-opener, I began to realise that I was being abused, emotionally and financially. It took me a while to come to terms with that fact and I found Patricia Evan’s book The Verbally Abusive Relationship really good and informative.

I switched therapists and the new one listened to me encouraged me to trust my own emotions, and gave me the strength to ask for a divorce. We are still not divorced as he has dragged his feet every step of the way despite being in a new relationship but I can honestly say that two and a half years later I am happier than at any point throughout our almost thirty year relationship. I am stronger, mentally, emotionally and physically, I have the freedom to do what I want. Gone are the days of trembling in fear when we heard his key in the door.

Listen to your feelings, trust them and act accordingly. If it’s all new to you and a scary place to be I suggest journaling, it really helps to get your feelings out and often you find out that things you thought hadn’t affected you have had a deep and long lasting effect.

Good luck, and keep posting on here, for support and information.

Thanks ThinkingCat, Alvinp, MotherisourSlave, MyRelationshipisWeird; your responses are so insightful.
I think I misjudge situations a great deal and often get the wrong end of the stick (I sometimes wonder if i might be on some sort of spectrum - my sister has Asperger's); when I first met my husband I thought that the close relationship he evidently had with his Mother was a positive thing - proving that he could be lovely to women - little did I realise that he was her puppet and she the puppet master! Such big mistakes like this make me question myself and whether I can be trusted to evaluate situations correctly. This is what terrifies me about leaving.
My husband was actually really kind and lovely to me in the very early days of our relationship, and so was his mother initially. This was totally intoxicating for me as I'd been given so little love and attention as a child, but once he told his Mum that we were engaged and buying a house together (with him providing the deposit) everything changed and that's when the anger with him started.
I do feel down trodden, TThinkingCat, I have had 20 years of almost subconsciously modifying my views to make them more acceptable to him and to keep the peace.

Motherisourslave, I hope your divorce finalises quickly. I would like to keep a diary of events, but am terrified that someone will find it and read about how much I dislike him! My daughters are constantly rummaging around in my drawers borrowing/taking items! I do have a secret notepad where I have written down all the horrible things he has done/said on the advice of the IDAS lady. Again, I'm left doubting myself as some of the things I think he has done I don't have any proof of e.g. photos of my family going missing, resources for a teaching job I used to do, but I don't currently use, just vanished. Kitchen equipment that he doesn't think we have a need for but I have asked him to not touch is no longer there. Once we visited my parents and he seemed to explode with anger because they had had a new conservatory built "it looks so cheap!" he exclaimed. Shortly afterwards we visited again to see their new car parked in their drive, once we entered the house he made an excuse to return to our car. Later on when we were leaving my parents gasped when they saw a huge dent in their car door that I'm certain hadn't been there before. He denied any knowledge (just as he always does with the missing objects in our house) but I am convinced that he did it out of spite and jealousy. Again, I have no proof! So perhaps I have mis-read the situation again and all those objects are actually lost in the house somewhere - none of this would ever stand up in a court of law!

Your last post mentions a new list of things. If he has thrown away photos of your family and resources related to your work, most people would find his behaviour unacceptable. If he actually thumped and damaged the door of your parents' new car, I think most people would find that completely irrational behaviour.
If you are in a situation where you are making a list of horrible things your partner has done, this cannot be good, can it?