After 10 years turns out I dont know him at all

[Kindled987]

Really looking for some help as Im so confused.

After a happy and loving 10 year marriage Ive uncovered a web of lies in the last few weeks. They dont seem to be seismic lies but the fact the deceit has been going on for so long and across so many fronts means I have no point of reference for how far they go.

He wont admit anything really, I only have what ive been able to uncover as he deleted a lot of texts, instant messages, diary invites, linked in messages etc after I found out. He said he did this because he didnt want me to know any more, but has subsequently told me what was in thise messages (nothing really bad).
The lies I know about are:

1. secret friendship for 2 years with woman he used to work with. I knew of her but he described her in unflattering terms both physically and professionally (work shy etc). Having looked her up now, she is actually atttactive, looks vivacious and intelligent. I have now recovered their text messages which were friendly, slightly intimate and slightly flirty. He deleted all of their texts day by day for the last 2 years and once I found out about her and confronted him 3 weeks ago, he secretly deleted work instant messages (a private work channel), diarised lunches and goodness knows what else. He claims the friendship was close but innocent. If that was the case, why delete all the messages that could have proven that after I found out? He told.me yesterday that he took me to same fancy restaurant for our anniversary that she had taken her husband to and that they had berbally discussed their thoughts on infidelity on another occassion ie she said someone at work was hitting on her, got on to chat about affairs in the workplace and they both said they thought an affair would end a marriage.
2. secret male friendship via whatsapp where he and this guy shared porn videos. This is not something Ive seen with him before and his male friendships that I know of all seem very 'normal' with school pals, work friends etc. It is not typical and the communications were definitely illicit. He says he was only ever sent the porn, never responded to it etc. Again, he deleted the messages daily for around last 6 months so i will never know. I was able to recover a few days of whatsapp messages, which didnt show anything as their chat was just friendly. Apparently the porn would just be 'dropped in' now and again in between chat about the weather!
3. he had been watching porn (in our marriage we had both agreed no porn separately and it wasnt part of our life as far as im aware - we didnt watch it together but he knew and had agreed that if it was something he wanted to introduce, I wanted it to be together) and looking on local adverts for couples looking for a third person. He says he only looked and the fantasy was a third person to join us (male).
4. he was secretly going out to the pub with work friend(s) at lunchtimes and drinking but telling me he was working through/ gone for a walk as he was trying to lose weight. He is a finance professional and was trying to get promoted up to more senior level, boozy lunches not generally acceptable in his workplace or mine and he has always disparaged people that do that to me.

There are other lies, but those are the most confusing ones. Thing is, despite finding out about this 3 weeks ago and having a lot of talks, he keeps lying. The only truth I have is when Ive found some of the evidence he hadnt deleted and even then he tries to deny it, say he just 'forgot'to tell me when we have been having these crises talks.

Our marriage has been open, loving and honest as far as I know. Ive never known him to lie a single time, never. I had believed him to be respectful to me, a great father and a great husband. It is so confusing to find what is likely to be the tip of the iceberg and Im frightened of what else I will find out if I keep looking. I didnt know him at all, I believed he was incapable of deceit and bare faced lying to my face but he cant seem to stop.

Its a merry go round and everything is so lost. I cant get any sense of scale for who he is and what he has done, the other things I dont know about and what he could be capable of.

Any ideas? Can anyone help me understand how bad this is??????

Our marriage has been open, loving and honest

Your marriage has never been the above, he's just hidden it all and lied to you for years.
Marriage over

What Reaa said, I'm afraid.

So sorry about this. It's so disrepectful of him. There's no trust, how can there possibly be a marriage?

Men are strange. I will never understand how they can never be happy with what they have. Sending you love and support

Sorry, you have just joined the club. I didn't think mine would have done anything like that, either. Now I think that he was brought up to be perfect, and had to have a goody-goody, angelic, never-wrong image for his parents - and that made him hide things under the carpet, and even lie to himself.

Some men. when caught, do admit it. But it is pretty typical to minimise and deny anything that you don't have concrete evidence for. Dicsussion become awful twisty mind games as they try to shift the blame onto you or just confuse you.

You may never find the whole truth, or be able to "prove" it. It's hard to accept, but if you keep pushing for the truth, r waiting until you find evidence, that just prolongs the agony. You need to consider whether you actually need to kow any more, or if what you already know is actually plenty.

The most saintly of people are capable of lying. Looking back I realise I was quite naive to think otherwise. You do think that you know them well.

What a terrible shock xx

Errrr - no, hes just a very good liar. And the hiding of the messages from the woman - that in itself is a serious breach of trust - you dont know what went on, because you have no evidence, he could be having an affair, but because he says it was innocent - how can you trust him? Hes a liar, and a very good one.

The trust in the marriage is gone - the question is, can you bear to live in a relationship where you will second guess everything he says, evey message that comes through you will question, every 'lunch' you will wonder who with? The porn thing, you say he says it was random and he didnt respond - how do you know? You dont, becasue he deletede the messages. You will never trust him again, and for me, it would be impossible to move on from this, unless his other attributes outweigh the fact that he has been lying to his wife for years.

Yeah I agree with pp, it seems there are too many men that just can't be happy with what they have, even when it's great. I'm sorry Op, your marriage is well and truly ruined by what he's done, he's lied over and over to you, both by omission and then lying by denial. There's no way back, he can never be trusted or believed again and if you try it will kill you emotionally, trust me, I know. Best thing to do is start therapy for yourself to get over being deceived for so long by someone you thought you could trust and plan your way out ASAP.

He reminds me of an addict - extraordinary levels of (self?) deceit and compartmentalising.

There's a good chance he might have been sleeping around - or at least good enough to go and get yourself a clean bill of health from a doctor at some point. You just can't know. I thought mine would have had an emotional affair at most, but it turned out they'd been at a "hotel" where you pay by the hour. I wouldn't have dreamt he could do anything so sleazy.

And I'm also reluctant to believe that a recently acquired Male friend, sends your soon to be ex DH porn.

After re reading your OP I'm starting to wonder if perhaps he's gay or at least bi curious.

Whatever the truth is, it's clear he has issues in himself that he needs to work on, before I would even consider working on the marriage, if and it's a big if, I was ever to trust him again.

Yikes. There's a thread on here called "husband and prostitute" that begins not dissimilarly to this.

He says he never sent porn back. That's convenient. Do you really believe the kind of friendship that involved sharing porn was really one sided? And if he never sent anything back himself then why the need to delete the messages?

He says he was only curious about cheating on you with other couples. Do you really believe that? I get that you probably want to believe it, but at a gut level, do you? It doesn't sound very convincing to me. Even if he didn't do anything, it sounds like he was prepared to.

I think you're right, this will only be the tip of the iceberg.

Ive never known him to lie a single time, never.

He just did a good job of deceiving you.

I'm sorry. If it were me I could not continue with him, especially as even when challenged he has not been honest. We are not obliged to "forgive & forget" the actions of people who betray us, just because they ask us to. Forgiving someone also doesn't have to mean we have to keep them in our life.

But I realise I am not you. Do you feel you can live with this?

And how will you feel if you forgive him, try to work through it, and then discover later that he continued the lies and had, for instance, acted on what he was looking up on those websites?

Your marriage is a lie :( protect yourself. See a solicitor and move on. He can’t be trusted and has a weird addiction. He will need lots of therapy to even come close to being able to be a decent DH to you

Don’t waste another 10 years

No way in hell could I ever forgive this scale of lies and deceit. And he's still lying now! I'd have to end the marriage. What do you want to do OP?

Thanks for messages.

I honestly dont know what I want to do. I asked him to leave our home the day i found out, and that was just the tip of the iceberg. I allowed him back after a few days as the kids were really struggling, but on the basis that he would give me space and live separately from me in the house. When i found out about the continued lying a few fays ago I asked him to leave again. It is unfair yo-yoing for the children and Ive done my best to be clear on what is happening and keeping things stable where possible. He has been coming round in the mornings and evenings around our working hours to spend time in their routine.

I know my biggest fear is what I dont know. If he was able to tell me everything, and I was able to see some proof to support his implausible story - just some...I understand he proactively hid and has cleaned up all records since - then I might find my feet to start thinking about whether im open to even considering trying to repair a relationship in the very long term. Unfortunately, I think he did such a thorough job of cleaning up after himself that he cant prove anything to me. I know if the records wpuld have proven his innocence he would have been extremely unlikely to have deleted them.

My mind is running to extremes- internet affairs, physical affairs, worried about bisexuality. All things which would immediately end my willingness to consider a relationship with him still.

We were so happy, loving and bound up in eachother that Im still in utter shock. Who is this person and what is he capable of? What is wrong with me that I didnt know? What has he done? He says he loves me but how could anyone compartmentalise an entire life like that?

Is there any way at all that this could just be what he swears it is?

I think you've only touched the tip of the iceberg here OP.

There's nothing wrong with you. It might sound trite, but you can never tell what is going on in someone's head. It's only when you're in this kind of situation that you relaise how little we all know bout each others' inner lives.

Is he the kind of person who has to present a squeaky clean image, e.g. because his parents put pressure on him to be top at everything? Does he himself have ridiculously high standards?

Really sorry op but you need to get out.

I was in the same boat, 12 years and a beautiful ds, and then she started showing her true colours. Turns out she is almost the exact opposite of the kind, caring person I thought I knew. Some people wear a mask their entire lives. But sooner or later it starts to slip and you see what lies beneath. Sorry this is happening to you. You have indeed just seen the tip of the iceberg imo. Hug

@ravenmum is spot on. You never really know what goes on in people's heads

Ravenmum - he is squeaky clean. Throughout the last few weeks his focus has been on trying desperately to maintain that image of being a really good guy, with my parents and his own. He is seeing a counsellor as well, and I expect he is also hiding truths from them to keep validating the good guy image and that Im the one who is over reacting and making more of it.

In our talks, is is very contrite and sorry and keeps repeating that he knows what he has done and how serious it is. I dont believe that he really does, I wonder of tjats gim playing 'good guy' again and sayi g the decent thing and not what he really feels. Likely he feels anger and resentment that Ive found out about his deceit and refused to accept it, thereby robbing him of his image, his loved ones' view of him, my opinion of him and his happy family life.

Honestly, I wish he would tell me how he truly feels and what he has truly done and stop repeating by rote that hes sorry, he loves me and Im all he's ever wanted. Clearly none of that can be true and I cant bear to continue to hear it. It wpukd be distressing to hear, but so much less painful in the longer term. Ive explained this to him, he says he understands and keeps insisiting he has disclosed everything. Aaaargh!!!!

You can love your wife and still get excited by your little fantasy world. One doesn't prevent the other.

If you are brought up and expected to be Mr Perfect, then you necessarily have to lie, as no-one is perfect. You get good at it. You have been taught to repress your weaknesses, so you never come to terms with them because they are your guilty little secret and you are ashamed even to think about it.

My ex is like this, at least. He's single again now, but highly unlikely to come crawling back seeing as we've just divorced! But if he did, even though I think I get his psyche now, I wouldn't want to go back. I did my 20 years.