Red flags - controlling or not?

[Wary1234]

I have been seeing someone for a short while now, it's going very slowly/steady which I like as a lot of my relationships have always moved quite fast, so actually feel in some ways this has signs of being healthier than other dating periods I've experienced.

I am however, a bit wary of a few things and wanted to ask your genuine opinions on this, whether it's warning flags or whether I am being silly.

I haven't physically changed my appearance at all since we met, by the way. However, there have been comments and suggestions since quite early on. I dye my hair, and he has suggested countless times, for me to change my hair colour (back to it's natural colour). It is dressed up (I feel), as he thinks 'it will suit me' when questioned, and that my natural colour is lovely. This started happening after a couple of months. I have explained I like my hair colour and may decide to change it back to it's natural colour some day, but don't want to at the moment and that's that. The comments still come though.

He goes on at me about wearing make up. I have always worn make up, but honestly I really don't wear a lot. Mascara is a staple everyday, plus a smidge of eyeliner. I wear a very light foundation to help hide my rosacea which I have explained to him, as this makes me very self conscious and wearing the make up helps me feel better about myself. It's not an orange or dark foundation at all, it really is very pale and natural. He says I don't need it, and here is where I feel really silly for being wary - that I'm naturally beautiful and look better without it. However I have asked if he doesn't like women who wear a bit of make up why choose to date some one who does, he says he doesn't mind it but that I don't need it.

I have had comments about my clothes. I mainly see him in work clothes which can't be helped, which are boring. However, I love to make an effort when going out. He still comments on my clothing when meeting up straight out of work, how it'd be nice to see me in something different and something with colour. When outside of work I actually DO wear a lot of colour and have done, however I can't wear different clothes at work it's just not feasible. I also don't feel it's feasible to always bring a change of clothes to work with me just to change to meet him straight from work for an hour. When going out anywhere I do honestly put a lot of effort in. The comments still come though.

He did make a suggestion of what I should wear on a day out with him very recently. I didn't wear it as it wasn't suiting for the activity (would have made me v overdressed).

There are a couple more examples but I'll leave it at these for now, as I think the hair and make-up ones are the one's that happen so frequently that they're the one's bothering me most. I have told him it makes me feel as if he doesn't like me the way I am and he says not at all, it's just that I don't need these things.

The comments are always said in a complimentary ways eg: I'm beautiful enough and don't need to do these things, so can't figure out if I'm being silly and he's actually trying to boost my self esteem, or whether it's cleverly dressed up and I'm being naive. I've certainly had boyfriends tell me I don't need make up once or twice before, but literally once or twice and I've not experienced it to this degree this early on, nor have I ever had one go on about changing my hair colour.

Opinions appreciated please xxx

Add me to the ones pointing at the red flags...

And seconding the Freedom Programme suggestion as it's essential to learn about relationship dynamics and your own sense of boundaries.

I can't think who the relationship counsellor is who has a phrase that is something like:

It's always the same man, just different trousers.

It's always the same plan, just different superficialities.

Hmm he sounds like my abusive ex with his comments tbh.

When I wore vest type tops in the summer showing a hint of cleavage, he commented "it will be nice when the winter comes and you will dress a bit more elegantly." I do dress elegantly and my cleavage was minimal (I'm not massive in the boob department.) He just didn't want anyone to see me.

He used to buy me clothes, not to my taste but how he wanted me to look. He was 20 years older than me and wanted the body of a 30 year old but wanted to dress me like a middle aged woman. I was very glad to throw all that in the charity shop when I was free of him.

I had my hair cut into a bob and when I came back from the hairdressers he said "oh, why did you get it cut so short?" (It was just below my chin) I just said "because I wanted it cut that short?" (Later on down the line when my mind was totally manipulated by him I wouldn't have been brave enough to say that to him..)

It's fine for men to not certain things, such as my dp now probably wouldn't like it if I can my hair into a boy cut and dyed it black in the same way I'd hate it if he grew a long beard etc. But stuff like that is normal and ok in a way.

Men who want you to look/dress in a specific way to fit an ideal for them in a way to control you and to look more plain (because they think other men will be less likely to fancy you)and make comments like you describe to try and encourage you to make the changes by "complimenting" you are just trying to control you.

I look back on an outfit I had which he got me. It was a knee length skirt with tights, these awful bloody flat pointy shoes and a coat which was very "middle aged" stereo M&S type of coat (I was completely manipulated by then.) I chucked the whole lot in the charity when I was free!

As for texts, yes, if I got a text he would say "is that your Mum?" And when I said no but didn't then say who, he would hate it!

I would keep poker face in the car for fear he would think I'd looked at another man!

If I went out with my Mum he would ask what we talked about. If I said "ah you know just regular stuff," he would hate it and want to know but always in a "I'm just taking an interest" kind of way.

It sounds like your man is heading the same way. I would say to him now, before he gets into your mind and you're still strong, if he wants someone who doesn't wear make up, don't date someone who does! If he wants a woman with X hair colour; date someone with that hair colour!

OP from what you've said he sounds clever at how he goes about his treatment of you - subtle, dressed up as compliments etc. Please don't be fooled.

I too thought I was in a good starting place with my ex - slow start, both over 30, professionals, independent etc. Started off as just the odd comment on my opinions, clothes, friends. Not nasty, just 'helpful'. It didn't click this was bad news - I was naive I guess.

Then accidental pregnancy, marriage and it slowly got worse and worse. Never anything I could pinpoint at the time but I ended up as an empty shell. He never really cared for me, just what he could do to me. Ended up being referred to Women's Aid by GP - i was so far down I couldn't make a single decision for myself.

Please don't make the mistakes I did, assuming the best of someone. That gut feeling you have is telling you something - abide by it. I didn't and it's taken 15 years to get myself back and I'm still having to fight to protect my dc's.

I know my DH likes my hair longer, and he's honest enough to say he doesn't think it suits me when it's shorter. In fairness, he's telling me the truth as with short hair, I look like Mrs Trunchbull. He likes me to wear a light make up especially if its at work or we're going out. But 99.9% of the time I don't wear a scrap, and he never says anything. I hate it if he grows a beard or lets his hair grow over his ears. There are normal likes and dislikes OP but what you are describing sounds like he is trying to override your personal choice. And that's a red flag.

Huge red flags!!!
What @Gruffalina72 said. I've been very happily married for more than 35 years now, BUT my father was an abusive alcholic shit, abused my mum and me, I escaped and married (very young) a man who seemed nice but turned out to be a physically, emotionally, financially, sexually abusive monster, I got out via divorce then had relationships with two further men who seemed nice, but really were not. I got out of each of those relationships after a few months as my gut told me they were wrong un's. Which, they were.

I had a gap of no dating, got my self together, concentrated on work and study and being kind to myself. I did a lot of reading and thinking. The freedom programme wasn't around then, but I joined some feminist discusdion groups and effectively came to similar conclusions. I wish I'd had MN then!
I realised I'd been conditioned from childhood to have very low boundaries for poor treatment from men and didn't recognise it for what it was, due to the abuse I saw as a child and then experienced in my first marriage and the two subsequent relationships. Fortunately I had no children involved then!

I met my now DH, he passed all sorts of tests he didn't even know I was setting him ( I was deeply suspicious for many many years of his motives :( due to my past ) He's a decent man and he has never EVER made me feel unsafe, or uncomfortable or unloved. We've had huge issues to deal with and we are a team, we support each other. I'm there for him, he's there for me.
He's never ever told me what to wear, makeup to use, hair, who to see where to go, he's never checked up on me, or questioned what I tell him. I trust him, he trusts me.
If I ask him for an honest opinion about clothes etc, I know he will give it, but always in a kind and respectful manner. And yes I do listen, as he does to me if he asks me for my opinion..

And I've just finished the online freedom programme, and I now realise exactly how fucked up my childhood and first marriage was. It's never too late to learn new stuff, even though my second marriage has been good and I had no need to go on the freedom programme because of it. But it's helped me understand childhood and early adult life responses. I recommend it, online or RL if you can

Red flags all over. One or two comments are fine, but look at the pattern. You don't feel comfortable with it. You are even justifying your use of makeup to yourself.

And this is how it starts.

The book to accompany the Freedom Programme is called Living with the Dominator and is a good guide to keep around. The end of it has a guide on what to look out for. You can spot a controller inside two weeks.

Trust your instincts, he is subtley criticising your appearance and negging you. What makes him think you care about his opinion on make up? He should be happy if you're happy. Get rid before it's too late (sounds dramatic I know, but each time your self esteem takes a hit it will be harder and harder)

So he has been going through your phone, or is snooping when you are using it, to know which colours are for certain friend's messages?

He doesn't like you just as you are.

Sounds deeply controlling and a big chance the relationship will become abusive. Get out now.

Yes, controlling. Yes, red flags. You are doing the right thing by backing away slowly.

Ah. I have known this happen to a friend. She was a blonde bombshell with a bubbly, happy, optimistic personality - he said he loved this about her...

It started with him asking her to stop dying her hair blonde as "it looks cheap". Then it was "cut down on the lipstick, it's like kissing a chip pan". Next it was "stop wearing perfume, I have allergies", "you look like a tart in those clothes", "lose some weight, you've let yourself go" and finally "cut your hair off, you'll suit short hair better".

She did everything he asked - and he later left her for a copy of who she used to be.
Not before he destroyed her self esteem, unfortunately.

Mograt I'm going to look that Living with dominator up thank you. Although not in an abusive relationship now I find learning about healing x