Partner making suggestions about appearance and how to "maintain" body...

[lizzedays]

My closest friend confided in me the other day that her partner of a year regularly makes comments about appearance and how she should 'maintain' herself.

Let's call her ellie. Ellie is attractive, wears make up often but not when she doesn't want to (and still looks good without it!) and is generally confident. He partner is always begging her to get a Hollywood wax and she has never wanted to, he's even offered to pay for it. When they have been out for dinner he will ask if she is going to wear heels. He will often suggest she gets a fake tan. None of which is said critically but as ellie said, she feels he isnt happy with her as she is. his response to this is that he is just trying to be helpful and wants her to feel she can do these things and he will help financially if needs be.

Ellie is a girly girl, but like most women who grow up, we don't always wear platforms when we have a meal out. she's pretty relaxed and does look good all made up but at the same time i can see why you wouldnt want to do that every single day! in her words 'shes not 18 anymore and doesnt want to spend every minute getting fully made 'up every day.'

she doesnt have mumsnet and so it's out to the mumsnet posters.. is he being a normal man or is this unfair?

He sounds like a bloody nightmare. He's eroding her self esteem, next it'll be 'oh, you don't really need to go out with your friends, do you?

Beware. That way trouble lies.

I had a partner like this, would constantly say are you wearing heels tonight? And make it clear he preferred me fully shaven (I don't do this), he would always try and convince me to. I love make up but he would always say your make up looks so nice, you hair looks better this way etc, so I would then feel I wasn't desirable any other way. This then developed into silent treatment and sulking over something I'd done 'wrong' and him commenting on my friends etc. Did not turn out well I ended it eventually as I could see what was happening. It really isn't worth being with someone who makes you question yourself or erodes your self esteem.

She needs to get rid and find someone who likes her the way she is.

I am very wary of men who have bought into these kind of ideas of what women should look like -a pornified/ Love Island-ified /Barbied ideal. To these men you are always a sexual and aesthetic object first, and a human being with a personality second. However otherwise “decent” they seem.

What happens in these relationships in illness, in pregnancy, in a future that can include weight loss, weight gain, mastectomies, hair loss, if a partner becomes depressed or stressed and personal care takes a back seat, through normal aging...what happens if daughters are born and they too are taught that how they look is the primary concern...what if they don’t meet his ideals?

Not all men are like this. Although I accept that the men who aren’t are probably in a minority.

thanks for replies.

the guy is nice - kind and generous. i also had an ex who used to ask me to shave in a certain way etc, but it was said in a more flippant way and not at all said with expectation.

when we chatted she said she thought she was being too sensitive but i totally disagreed. it would drive me mad if someone said they wanted me to get a fake tan?!

his recent comment was "most women want to take make up out with them so i was just reminding you." they were about to go on a 4 mile walk by the sea...

My bf expressed mild surprise that I didn't shave more, but when I said "You'd better get used to it, as that's how it is!" he accepted it. Has your friend told him that her body is her business and not his?

If she has, and he still says this, then he evidently wants a different kind of person, and should go out and get himself one.

Your friend is not an object for her bf to dress up how he chooses. Sounds as though he puts more thought into her appearance than her comfort. She is free to choose her own style on a night out or on a hike if her boyfriend isn't happy then boo hoo to him he can only decide for himself if he wants to wear heels or makeup hiking.

He doesn't sound kind or generous at all.

He has an image of the perfect woman in his mind and wants to mould her into it

I agree. She has said he has self esteem issues himself and therefore looks for the 'ideals' in everything, finds it difficult to let go and relax and have own body confidence. on that basis she wants to continue it and hopes he will change, but in the meantime i wonder what that is doing to her.

she has addressed it with him - in particular the shaving. she said whilst she actually doesnt mind him having a preference and sharing that, she doesnt want to feel obliged to do it. he said he understood and he was just saying what he preferred.. only for 2 days later to offer to pay for a full hollywood when she said she was going out for a wax...

only for 2 days later to offer to pay for a full hollywood
Yeah, he didn't get it. He will never get it. It takes a while to find out whether you're really suited or not, and after a year, she's found it out.

So he has confidence issues? But has quite the brass neck in telling his girlfriend how she should 'maintain' herself?

She can do better than that. Being single is better than that

I was married to one of these and when things deteriorated between us he RIPPED into me one day for wearing “mum shorts” (I wasn’t a mum then).

His diatribe went on for two hours, I’ll never forget it. Cited it in the divorce papers too.

I am someone who likes make up and pretty things but won’t be dictated to on what to wear and especially if it’s to fit a generic Love Island template. Fuck that.

(If it ever happens again with another partner, though, she should probably just come right out and say "Mind your own business" rather than "Well, I don't mind really", as it sounds like she does mind.)

Your poor friend...this relationship sounds doomed. He is trying to control her. Suggest she tells him where to go...!

Ellie should suggest he go find most women to date then, or would he rather actually go on this walk with me? I don’t think I could stand this even once. If I knew someone like this is probably start carrying flats so if I ever saw him I could slip out of heels into flats immediately, that’s how much it would annoy me! Ellie needs to tell him to shut up or go find a woman who meets his very shallow ideals.

She needs to tell him, once, clearly, that he is not being 'helpful' and she does not need 'reminders'. If he stops, then fine.
If he doesn't stop, then his motivation is not what he claims. He is trying to control her appearance - as if she is some kind of trophy-and chip away at her self-esteem.

oh boy, tell her to end it before he has her turned in to a nervous wreck. This relationship will destroy her self-esteem

He is attempting to slowly knock her self confidence & mould her into what he sees as acceptable. Personally I'd tell him to get fucked & never see him again but I have a very low tolerance to wankers.

He's insecure in himself and it's making him someone who has to have all the 'right' things to present a certain image of himself to the world. He ties himself in knots over what others may think of him.

It's very self obsessed, immature and sad, and it will make Ellie miserable, as well as any kids they may go on to have.

If she was my friend I'd tell her to run away fast.

This is the problem with both too much porn and reality TV, it creates the impression that women should be plucked, primped and there to constantly look pretty for her man. It’s both expensive and knackering, no wonder so many women get depressed when they try keepingvthis up when RL and families kick in

A lot of abusive relationships start like this. Little comments and suggestions that become more negative and before you know it, every aspect of your being is being criticised and your self esteem ends up so low you feel like you deserve the abuse and can't leave. It sounds like Ellie needs to get rid.

tbh I think he's reasonable, precisely because she hasn't told him to stop it, and she makes these sound like negotiable matters. Folk say all the time to their partners stuff like "I'd like you to clean house more" or "I'd like you to spend more time with the kids" or "I want you to work fewer hours". I don't see appearance suggestions (or nagging, if you prefer) as any different. If these grooming things aren't negotiable, she needs to say so.

She hasn't made it clear, no, but tbh he sounds obsessed with it if he mentions it that often and in those contexts. Doesn't sound like a good match.

He is being critical of her. He is slowly suggesting to her she isn't good enough, tanned enough, pretty enough. She will start to question herself & eventually wonder if he is right.

How dare he suggest she takes make up out with her?
Arsehole.
She should dump him.
The very least she should do is say ONE more direct or indirect comment about my appearance and you’re dumped. And mean it.