Safeguarding DCs from convicted child sex offender - where do I stand on this legally?

[2step]

DH's uncle was convicted of child sex offences - indecent images and videos, including "extreme". He got a suspended custodial sentence, on the sex offenders register, and a sexual harm prevention order (I don't know the terms of this).

We found out before it went to court because SS and police contacted me for safeguarding purposes. DH and I assured SS that we would safeguard our children by not seeing the uncle. Also turns out his wife had known for months - since the police raid - but covered it up to the family, saying that devices that had been seized had been lost etc - but her covering up is another matter Anyway what I take from that is that I can't trust her judgement either.

Now MIL (sister of the aunt) has unexpectedly received some money and wants to treat the whole family to a Christmas break in a lovely rented house. MIL is waiting until I'm out of the room and asking DH to contact the sex offender "because they're suffering" and to all spend Christmas together because "they've had a bad year so far" DH has given a vague non-committal response.

I think they've all taken leave of their senses. They've not only accepted this "man" who likes to watch babies and children being sexually abused and raped, they're trying to make life better and more enjoyable for him

I don't want to see the uncle - possibly ever, who knows - and I don't want my DCs to see him.

I will do everything in my power to block this - taking the kids away to another location if I have to - but I would like to know where I stand legally.

Are people on the sex offenders register even allowed to stay somewhere overnight with children? How would I even know if the terms of his SHPO prevent it? Would I have to speak to SS or police if I needed support in safeguarding my kids from this man?

And most importantly - am I legally allowed to forbid DH or anyone else from taking my DCs to see this man?

Thanks for any advice or pointers.

Agree, contract social services to ask what is permitted, and raise your concerns, especially if there are other children in the family who may be going to this event.

And no way in hell would I be going, totally agree with you. Keep your kids safe.

I would be saying

‘I WILL NOT STAY IN THE SAME ROOM AS AN EVIL PAEDOPHILE WHO GET OFF BY WATCHING BABIES BEING RAPED!

Quite frankly MIL if you continue to have him in your company and house, never mind on holiday with you then we will have to cease all contact with you! We had to promise Social Services that we would not allow that animal to have ANY contact with our children! The fact that you want your grandchildren to sleep under the same roof as that monster disgusts me! You want to allow a paedophile to have access to my children! What next? The village serial killer?

I do not give a shit what a terrible year they have had! He should be locked up as far as I am concerned and your sister is just as bad as he is by staying with him! I care more about the children he watched being tortured, the awful abuse of innocents that he enabled!

I will not put my children at risk! Nor will I risk my children being removed from me for failing to protect them from a Paedophile!’

I would not have any contact with any family members who condoned his actions and continued to allow him into their home!

I'm a probation officer. As he's on a suspended sentence there's nothing in that legally to prevent him going on this holiday. The SHPO may well have a not to stay with under 18s condition.
However, the fact that social services have already told you not to allow unsupervised contact is enough, if you go, you risk your children being removed for failing to protect them. Tell your MIL that, and repeat.

I wouldn't take mine. I work with men convicted of similar day in day out, they are 'normal' men in many situations, often likeable, plausible, educated, funny, they have positive chacteristics too is what I'm trying to say - but the fact they have gained sexual pleasure out of watching child abuse means I'd never put my kids near them. Regardless of how much treatment or help or remorse they show. It's a risk I'd never take. Stick to your guns.

Anyone who empathised with a beast wouldn’t be in my life or my children’s lives.

If that sounds harsh I’m sorry, but anyone who can minimise or try to manipulate a situation to benefit someone who is quite literally one of the most pernicious, dangerous and harmful members of society is in no way fit to be around children.

Apologies for the strong emotions OP, I get so angry at our pathetic justice system, in my opinion all paedophiles should be locked up!

I hate how British some families can be too, like let’s bury it under the carpet and make a cup of tea! Do you want sugar with that? Whilst ignoring the massive elephant in the room that is sitting barely covered by a threadbare carpet!

MIL is waiting until I'm out of the room and asking DH to contact the sex offender "because they're suffering" and to all spend Christmas together because "they've had a bad year so far"

Ask her how she would feel if the photos videos had been of your children being sexually abused. All those children were somebody’s child and grandchild.

No way would my children or I be going anywhere near him.

Ask her how she would feel if the photos videos had been of your children being sexually abused. All those children were somebody’s child and grandchild.

I agree. Keep asking her this.

I despair of the number of people who are more worried about a paedophile's feelings than children's safety. We live in a sick society.

Oh come on now. He's had a bad year, put your DC at risk to make him feel better.

Or not. Tell your MIL absolutely definitely not. And not now. Not ever.

CaledonianQueen
I for one am glad you have strong feelings about this subject - I wish everyone felt the same.
I think I'd have to be restrained from taking a knife to his balls if I were anywhere near him.

Don’t let you IL make you think you’re being unreasonable or that you’re over reacting. You’re not and you know you’re not

I am not sure I can help on anything legal but I was the child and I wasn’t protected on multiple occasions and probably should not have remained with my parents because of it. I am now obviously an adult but my entire extended and close family kept this a secret for over 20 years. It did come out in the end but not the full extent. And now he’s dead no one talks about it now either although he affected all of us (some more than others)

It honestly is the weirdest fucking thing no one will ever understand why people minimise it but it didn’t happen to them, so they can’t see how it affects them. Abusers are absolute experts at manipulation - it is the core component of their personality so it never really surprises me when people brush it under the carpet because they feel some empathy or obligation to the abuser.

i do believe it is only a lack of opportunity for sex offenders, and trust me i know first hand, if an opportunity presents its likely they may take it - in your case its fully rational to believe its high risk and you are not unreasonable

If there are stipulations about overnights in the SHPO, then permission is not conditional on you knowing about his convictions. It will involve you consenting formally to contact.

I know in our case that would have involved meeting with a police officer to have the risk outlined to us and granting formal consent for our children specifically. I know because my MIL tried to arrange the meeting for us so we could grant overnight access to our children to this pervert. Without that meeting, you haven’t consented and I don’t imagine your dh could do it without you on your behalf if that was a concern (unless you had lost PR maybe).

But definitely you and your dh need to get on the same page about this. I know in our case it took my dh a lot longer than me to accept we had to be no contact. This shit had been so normalised in his twisted family that he really struggled to see it was a real risk. Like so many in his family had such wacky beliefs about the abuse (it was a government conspiracy is a personal favourite!). Everyone put so much pressure on him to minimise it all. It was awful. Even though he knew objectively it was wrong, all the people he trusted his whole life were telling him he was a traitor and a bad son for not towing the line. It took a lot of talking and tears for him to get it. But he gets it now and is totally on board with doing everything we have to do to keep our kids safe. It may just take some talking and time and continuing to emphasise that this isn’t normal, even if it might be in his family.

I do hate that so many families (and friendship groups) minimise the abuse and pressure people to ignore and forget it. (Including pressurising the victim in all too many cases.) I think it's a cognitive dissonance thing. "Only bad people would support a sex offender, I am not a bad person, ergo [family member] isn't a sex offender, it didn't really happen, and if it did it wasn't all that bad." People really struggle with wrapping their brains around the idea that someone that they like and care for is not a good person, and rather than painfully re-assessing their own judgment, it's easier to just erase the victim(s) and the offence from their consciousness.

CaledonianQueen

Completely agree with you!!!!!!!!! I wouldn’t have MIL around my children if she thinks it’s fine to have them around a fucking paedophile.

I would be upset with my husband if he didnt shut her down on the matter immediately.
I would also step away from the Mil, She should be protective of her grandchildren and put them before a peadophile.

I don't know why anyone would stay married to such a person like your DHs uncle TBH. He's sick in the head.

Thanks for all this input. I know I'm right to block it. DH was the one who assured SS we would not see the uncle and he was 100% committed to that until MIL threw this crazy suggestion in the mix. I don't know why he didn't react with an immediate firm "no", I can only assume it's because he's ever the diplomat trying to avoid confrontation. Clearly I'll need to discuss it with him, and I will try to arrange for us both to discuss with MIL so it's clear that this will not be happening, she's not to suggest any meetings etc again. Weirdly, she accepted there'd be no contact right the way through before court, past conviction, but now this has changed after sentencing - go figure

I've stood up to the family before, it's not pretty and they can really unite and turn on someone but I'm prepared to push on through that and I believe DH would support me against any backlash.

I like the suggestion of broken record responses. I shouldn't have to go into detailed explanations, it should be very obvious to anyone why I don't want my children and myself to be around a child sex offender.

If anyone continues any pressure, I'll contact SS, police, VISOR officer etc as suggested.

Re the legalities of the situation, no of course this wouldn't change my stance but I just want my position to be as strong as possible and to know the facts that back me up so they're less likely to try to bully me into submission if they realise it's an impossibility for contact to happen regardless of my feelings.

Hope that makes sense and I've answered the questions

Yes, it makes sense that you have extra ammunition against an extended family who might try to pressure you ‘for the sake of the family’ or whatever.

Good luck with this. I really can’t believe they’ve put you in this position at all.

I can sort of understand that the mother may want her sons to stay in touch but I can’t imahine her wanting her grandchildren exposed to risk.

There are some seriously twisted family dynamics at play here. His wife covered up his depraved actions for months and your MIL feels sorry for him/them - a paedophile caught in possession of the most extreme child rape images. Their attempt to downplay and normalise this and play happy families is sick. Obviously the holiday is out of the question and personally I would never allow MIL to have unsupervised access to your children again - she will give this man access to them as she is in denial. I have to say your DH's response is cause for concern too. He can't seriously be considering taking your children on holiday with this pervert?